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Derma Rolling
I Am Actually Regrowing My Hair + Hairline Without Min Or finasteride (mechanical Stimulation)
- Thread starter MyThinningConfidence
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How long were you derma rolling before you noticed an improvement ,I'm still waiting on my dermapen hoping it does the same job..congratulations on your success
Link to his post?
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I can't remember entirely now but in my first album, once I was actually regrowing you could see the regrowth almost by the week. They were only small little baby hairs popping up that had minimal cosmetic benefit but it was definitely assuring though.
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No but I had that sensation initially, the scalp massages actually helped cure it for me alongside zinc pyrithione and ketoconazole. The scalp itch was accompanied by dandruff and seborrheic dermatitis, both of which I haven't had in many months.
Thanks for sharing your success story. How much do you think the scalp massage played into your recovery? It feels like a waste of time and potentially getting some wrinkly skin/scalp...but, hell, I'd try anything that works (within reason) without huge negative side effects. Thx
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Initially I rated it second but I later added so many things to my regime it's hard to say what gave me the most regrowth, I typically just say derma rolling is the best since I was actually seeing improvement by the week when I start using it. The scalp massage didn't cause any wrinkles for me although the scalp exercise did because I ended up doing a lazy easier technique where I scrunch my forehead, I've since got rid of the wrinkles but it got quite bad considering my age. I think scalp massages are definitely worthwhile and they helped improve my overall scalp quality beyond regrowth regardless so that's reason enough to use them. I made a separate thread on massages here ages ago, some of the info needs updating but here's that thread. https://www.hairlosstalk.com/intera...ages-and-their-potential-for-regrowth.116686/
Thanks man...Rob's site is pretty informative but there are holes in his theories IMHO. Here's snippet from his published article:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0306987717310411
"Fibrosis develops concurrently with Androgenetic Alopecia. Studies have found that 37% of Androgenetic Alopecia sufferers showed significant inflammation and fibrosis surrounding thinning hair follicles (perifollicular fibrosis) [109], increased collagen deposition below Androgenetic Alopecia miniaturizing follicles [110], and a 2- to 2.5-fold enlargement of the follicle dermal sheath made up of dense collagen bundles [111]. Balding vertex and temple regions have a near 4-fold increase in collagen fibers, [112] and Androgenetic Alopecia-linked fibrosis may match Androgenetic Alopecia progression and patterning [67]"
1. If only 37% of Androgenetic Alopecia sufferers show inflammation and fibrosis, that means that almost two thirds (63%) had no fibrosis but still lost hair so there's more to hair loss than inflammation/fibrosis.
2. If balding vertex and temple regions are showing a 4 fold increase in collagen, how come a lot of guys on this site are reporting success with dermarolling. To my knowledge, dermarolling actually increases collagen production.
Thanks
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0306987717310411
"Fibrosis develops concurrently with Androgenetic Alopecia. Studies have found that 37% of Androgenetic Alopecia sufferers showed significant inflammation and fibrosis surrounding thinning hair follicles (perifollicular fibrosis) [109], increased collagen deposition below Androgenetic Alopecia miniaturizing follicles [110], and a 2- to 2.5-fold enlargement of the follicle dermal sheath made up of dense collagen bundles [111]. Balding vertex and temple regions have a near 4-fold increase in collagen fibers, [112] and Androgenetic Alopecia-linked fibrosis may match Androgenetic Alopecia progression and patterning [67]"
1. If only 37% of Androgenetic Alopecia sufferers show inflammation and fibrosis, that means that almost two thirds (63%) had no fibrosis but still lost hair so there's more to hair loss than inflammation/fibrosis.
2. If balding vertex and temple regions are showing a 4 fold increase in collagen, how come a lot of guys on this site are reporting success with dermarolling. To my knowledge, dermarolling actually increases collagen production.
Thanks
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I think probably the key word there is "significant" which doesn't mean that the other 63% had completely no fibrosis, I am curious where that percentage is coming from though since I haven't seen a study that directly tries to find the percentage with fibrosis. Rob's theory also primarily works with pattern hairloss and doesn't fit diffuse thinners as much since that's typically another mechanism causing that. The main issue with this though is we don't know if fibrosis is causative or just simply a result of balding. Rob will actually have the answer for this in about 2-3 years since he will be doing work on cadavers to find the answer. I'm personally under the assumption that is is causative but there are definitely a lot more factors to balding. I believe it to be the main one, or at least in me. Heres a couple of studies on fibrosis
Scalp Blood Flow In Balding Men
"The difference was statistically significant (p much less than 0.001). A reduced nutritive blood flow to the hair follicles might be a significant event in the pathogenesis of early male pattern baldness."
Fibrosis In Balding Scalps
The reason people see success on dermarollng is that it's acute inflammation meaning the body signals a repair response and then it's resolved and completed. On the other hand with chronic scalp tension the response is chronic and never gets resolved so the body just keeps signaling this response until fibrosis is built up which directly inhibits bloodflow and nutrient supply over time which leads to the event of miniaturization. The excess collagen from chronic tension is what's actually forming the fibrosis in the scalp and this just builds up more and more over time. In theory minoxidil reduces collagen so I've always been curious if it's an unintended positive side effect in terms of reducing the formation of fibrosis.
If you comment on Rob's article via his website with these questions he will make sure to answer any questions you have within a few days, he'd likely give a far better and more in-depth response than I ever could.
Good points...I'm not sure how they measure fibrosis and whether anyone bothered to do a randomized trial looking at both balding men as well as those who are not (how do you even measure fibrosis?). These are all unproven theories and my guess is that hairloss is a lot more complicated with genetic components that have yet to be uncovered.
i think how long you been bald is what affect the amount of fibrosis you have . MyThinningConfidence i think you respond good for DR because you have less fibrosis /calcification... if you wait for 5~7 years balding without treatment it would be hard to recover ...i mean you would have a slow regrowth and you must work harder on your hair.
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I'm unsure on the actual measuring process but you can tell if fibrosis is there by the actual fibrotic tissue but I'm unsure how they'd actually measure this in living people since they have to cut cadavers heads open to see if it's there. There is a little test you can do though, if you pinch the balding areas of your scalp typically the skin there will be much thicker and harder, this is a result of fibrosis. For me I noticed this the most in my temples as one was receding quite a bit faster than the other.
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I think it definitely does although I wouldn't say I necessarily have less fibrosis/calcification, I've been balding since I was 12-13 years old and was literally a NW3 at 15-16. The longer you wait does make it harder to regrow and despite being so young balding so early does have me concerned about how much I'll truly be able to regrow. Based on my vellus hair I might be able to cap out at a NW2 which is crazy since I can't remember the last time I was that and I don't really have any young hairline pics, it'd be awesome if I reached that but I'm not expecting to go past a NW3 but I have been pretty hopeful and excited lately at the potential.
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Impressive results man. I have a question though. When you mention the vellus hair what do you mean? If I look very closely in the mirror I can see very small hair not just on my hairline but also on my forehead. So, how do you know which ones have the potential to become terminal and which ones don’t?
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Technically these aren't vellus hairs but I have no better word for them and they have no pigment so you can only see them under this very specific lighting. It's very hard to regrow hair in a completely bald area so I'm not expecting to regrow anything beyond these hairs unless more of them pop up. I've noticed over time a lot are getting more of a blonde pigment and some smaller ones are turning terminal.
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Considering how much regrowth you’ve had, if you didn’t have those vellus hair before I’m pretty sure they will turn terminal. It’s seriously amazing how much hair you regrew already!
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I had some of those vellus hairs originally but not as many and they were quite short, I'm imagining a lot of them will eventually turn terminal in the next 6-12 months. Just hoping they hurry up haha, balding deprived me of all my teenage years and having just turned 21 I'm hoping it starts to regrow quicker so I can at least get to experience some of my youth.
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You seem like a really nice guy. I hope you regrow all your hair.
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Loved reading your experience.