How to deal with side effects from Propecia

[Mens Rea]

Re: How to deal with side effects from finasteride

"In range" is a bullshit term, because besides from hormones being in range, ratios are the only thing that really matters. Everything could be in range, but still give you a lot of problems.

It's important that you do more tests, and keep track of changes. The LH issue should be investigated further.

Yes these ranges are derived from all sorts of other people's results. Example - an old man's LH and testosterone levels. Clearly younger guys should have much higher testosterone - top range.

Here, actually is an excellent study that shows testosterone levels for different ages. THIS is the kind of thing doctors and even most endo's simply don't given the necessary attention to....

Damn it won't let me uplaod it because its a spreadsheet document. If anyone is interested i'll email it to them.

 

[Ende]

Re: How to deal with side effects from finasteride

Maybe compressing it with winzip or winrar, and then uploading it would work. I'm interested, btw.

 

[Ende]

Re: How to deal with side effects from finasteride

You need Excel Viewer to open this file.

 

[Ende]

Re: How to deal with side effects from finasteride

Interesting, although I had expected more difference. One thing is for sure, it's f*****g crazy that a 25 year old man has to score below 8 nmol/L to be defined as hypogonadal.

 

[TheGrayMan2001]

Re: How to deal with side effects from finasteride

I've been off finasteride since mid-January. I started back last Thursday, but now I am only taking .25/mg.

Libido jumped up greatly after getting off, it was really annoying, it tapered off a little but was still much higher than it was on finasteride. I still have urges etc but it isn't nearly as tough to "control". In other words, I feel like on finasteride I'm 35 libido wise, while off I feel 15 again (I'm 22).

When I got off it only took about 2 days for everything to go to "normal". I'm starting to think my body just isn't wanting to adjust to the finasteride. My libido is down already, though it isn't plummeted to rock bottom or anything. I just don't feel like I have for the past 1.5 months (feeling 15 all the time every day when it comes to thinking about sex/random erections etc is really annoying).

I don't know what to do. The finasteride almost totally stops the scalp itch that I associate with male pattern baldness. It stopped it last time, too. minoxidil + finasteride seemed to be regrowing my hairline really well but after I stopped finasteride the minoxidil alone didn't seem to be maintaining the front of my hairline, which started to minaturize since then.

The male pattern baldness itch has almost drove me crazy the past two weeks, prompting me to get back on.

I don't know if I should stay on or not. I think I'm going to lose a lot of hair really fast if I stay off of it. I'm still far ahead of where I was in April 2010 in terms of overall density on the top, though my hairline has taken a slight hit since starting finasteride (it was receding some anyway), but the minoxidil + finasteride combo seemed to be recovering it almost to perfect NW1 status before I quit finasteride. I assumed it was the minoxidil alone that was regrowing it, I was wrong I think.

edit: I don't want to make it seem like "low libido" means ungodly low. I think most people would say 1 time per day is a health libido, I can easily want 2 even while on finasteride. Off of it I *have* to have that or I go almost nuts, like my testosterone is too high or something. Sorry if that's too much info, I hate discussing crap like this but that's what happens with medication like this.

 

[Mens Rea]

Re: How to deal with side effects from finasteride

Grayman i am warning you from personal experience your hormones can crash if you do what you're doing. Your body won't give you prior warning either. Stay off it if you already have shown an intolerance.

 

[Ende]

Re: How to deal with side effects from finasteride

DHT seems to increase libido too, and I believe it's the hormone which maintains the testosterone/estrogen ratio. An optimal ratio is critical for your sexual function. Have you considered treatment with RU58841? It's more effective than finasteride, and it has no side effects at the correct dose.

 

[TheGrayMan2001]

Re: How to deal with side effects from finasteride

DHT seems to increase libido too, and I believe it's the hormone which maintains the testosterone/estrogen ratio. An optimal ratio is critical for your sexual function. Have you considered treatment with RU58841? It's more effective than finasteride, and it has no side effects at the correct dose.

I've considered it, but the only person I know on the forums really claiming major success with it is el_duterino (he mostly hangs around at the other big hair loss forum). Also it's pretty expensive.

edit: Didn't realize he posted here too.

I don't know. I might just see how this .25mg/day works out for now. For all I know things might get better than ever in a few days or a week or two. I had no testicle ache this time around.

 

[Ende]

Re: How to deal with side effects from finasteride

I've had success with RU58841, and that's with a lot less than other people are using. I'm using Rogaine 5% as vehicle.

 

[Prop]

Re: How to deal with side effects from finasteride

full blood tests

glucose 95 (55-110) mg/dl
creatinine 0,95 (0,70-1,20) mg/dl
FSH 7,81 (1,60-11) mU/ml
LH 9,87 (range 1,50-8,60) H mU/ml
prolactine 12,3 (4,0-15,3)ng/ml
17B estradiol 6 (range 7-45) L pg/ml
Testosterone 5,06 (3,50-9) ng/ml
test free 13 (5,6-40) pg/ml

 

[Ende]

Re: How to deal with side effects from finasteride

What's the units?

LH was very high, so your testosterone level is probably higher if you take a new test now. Your free testosterone is in low range, and I think prolactin is too high. My personal opinion is that it should be depleted, when you don't have a baseline value. Too low prolactin level won't cause any problems, too high will - and it doesn't matter if it's still in range. If you've had side effects from finasteride, your prolactin level has been affected too.

Personally, I would do another blood test, and consider treatment with Dostinex and Clomid or hCG. It will deplete your prolactin level, and increase your free testosterone- and estrogen level.

SHBG should be checked as well. If it's high, and the reason for high LH and low free testosterone, Proviron should be used instead of Clomid or hCG.

 

[Prop]

Re: How to deal with side effects from finasteride

What's the units?

edited

 

[Ende]

Re: How to deal with side effects from finasteride

Reference ranges varies a bit. See one example here. Where did you go? The hypogonadal seniors, soon to die, so vitality doesn't really matter clinic?

According to these reference ranges, your free testosterone level is BELOW normal range if you're 20 - 40 years old. That's why you never should take their word for it, but instead ask for more opinions, and check more reference ranges. I've experienced the same; my prolactin level was twice as high as normal, but the doctor didn't notify me, because the lab used the reference range for women...

 

[Mens Rea]

Re: How to deal with side effects from finasteride

Reference ranges varies a bit. See one example here. Where did you go? The hypogonadal seniors, soon to die, so vitality doesn't really matter clinic?

According to these reference ranges, your free testosterone level is BELOW normal range if you're 20 - 40 years old. That's why you never should take their word for it, but instead ask for more opinions, and check more reference ranges. I've experienced the same; my prolactin level was twice as high as normal, but the doctor didn't notify me, because the lab used the reference range for women...

Are you sure? What was the reference range? My endo says our lab has raised our range to <500.

If you are using ranges from different labs you need to exercise caution. My endo explained to me this week that every lab has slightly different testing kits so you should rely first and foremost on your own labs reference ranges...

 

[Mens Rea]

Re: How to deal with side effects from finasteride

BTW, Propecia

Difficult readings to interpret imo. High LH but lower testosterone. This is the kind of thing you see in primary hypogonadism, something you wouldn't expect to get from finasteride usage. I'm sure this isn't the case but it is strange that you've higher LH, it's as if your balls aren't responding as they should (to the signals to produce more testosterone).

Also, you have low estradiol. Too low. If this increases so will your testosterone i would bet. IMO you could be a good candidate for a SERM and even HCG (along with an AI like arimidex in small doses).

I'd be pretty confident that you could mount a good recovery, my friend.


A good starting point is always an MRI on the piturary to ensure you have no beneign tumors. Don't be alarmed but that, though, its a formality in most cases (mine was clear).

 

[Ende]

Re: How to deal with side effects from finasteride

Are you sure? What was the reference range? My endo says our lab has raised our range to <500.

If you are using ranges from different labs you need to exercise caution. My endo explained to me this week that every lab has slightly different testing kits so you should rely first and foremost on your own labs reference ranges...

Yeah, I'm sure. Normal range for men is 86 - 324 mIE/L. They claimed it was <700, which is for women. You should always check alternative ranges and ask for more opinions. Just see Propecia's example... I would say the difference between 5- and 15 pg/ml free testosterone is large.

 

[Mens Rea]

Re: How to deal with side effects from finasteride

Are you sure? What was the reference range? My endo says our lab has raised our range to <500.

If you are using ranges from different labs you need to exercise caution. My endo explained to me this week that every lab has slightly different testing kits so you should rely first and foremost on your own labs reference ranges...

Yeah, I'm sure. Normal range for men is 86 - 324 mIE/L. They claimed it was <700, which is for women. You should always check alternative ranges and ask for more opinions. Just see Propecia's example... I would say the difference between 5- and 15 pg/ml free testosterone is large.

Yeah, 700 seems high. I'm assuming that range you're giving if from the same lab, though.

Checking alternative ranges - absolutely. But rely on your own lab's range first because your results might vary using different lab kits. That's the point.

I think that last point is more in line with age groups and interpretation of how high or low you are in the range, as opposed to the actual range requiring closer examination.

 

[Ende]

Re: How to deal with side effects from finasteride

They use ELISA or RIA to determine hormone levels. Different kits shouldn't matter. The precision should be more or less equal, at least with the same technique. Both methods are precise.

 

[Prop]

Re: How to deal with side effects from finasteride

mens rea
thx for ur advices
i thought about primary ipo, but i read somewhere it's something genetic that appears immediately clear in young age, but i'm not well informed and in this period i have no time for go deep

my sides are not very severe, in this period are cyclic (1 month i'm ok 15 days not and so on)

when i crashed i experienced bad pain in my testis for some hours so i guess that maybe some damages occurred

however i have a full sperm analysis scheduled soon, maybe this can tell my more about.

i ll keep informed about results

Enden

thx a lot for ur advices too
however u know that i'm reluctant to automedicate without Doctor supervision.
that will be my last choice if my sides became worst

According to these reference ranges, your free testosterone level is BELOW normal range if you're 20 - 40 years old.

ok
but i read somewhere that free test analysis if often imprecise

 

[Ende]

Re: How to deal with side effects from finasteride

According to these reference ranges, your free testosterone level is BELOW normal range if you're 20 - 40 years old.

ok
but i read somewhere that free test analysis if often imprecise

Serum is accurate, but do another test if you doubt the result, and remember to test SHBG!