Follica (first Time Ever Picture) - Exciting

[kiwi666]

"Those pics are deceptive/shitty."

Follica still has no motive to deceive. There is no stock price. This is not an ad campaign. About 00.001% of their potential customers will ever look at these pics.


"Those pics show no change."

Put your glasses on. It's obvious.


"This is just minoxidil & dermarolling re-packaged."

So wait for something more complicated if it makes you feel better.


"You can get a decent transplant in Turkey for $4000."

Diseased sex workers cost even less.
This is a thread about Follica.

Maybe cry very babies posting here in the WRONG thread ARE actually just cheap diseased sex workers... in Turkey!!!?!??

 

[Dimitri001]

Same here. Based on what we've learned now about Follica, I have switched from using a roller once a week to using the derminator every two weeks starting today. I did one pass at 1.5mm on medium speed, and another pass at .25mm on fast speed just for better density. I can't tolerate 1.5mm on fast.

What info from Follica suggests that change? I assume the derminator (this is actually the first time I've heard of it) is denser needling than the roller, is that right? But why the switch from once a week to ever two weeks?

 

[kiwi666]

Do they say what depth they go to or can you adjust it?

I’ve gone from 2mm weekly to 1mm daily and only miss days if it hurts from day before.

If you’ve ever grazed a knee or hurt yourself that way - that’s about as bad as it gets (on 1mm detminator).

The only wounding these cry babies, posting in the wrong thread, have ever experienced is their butts.

 

[pegasus2]

What info from Follica suggests that change? I assume the derminator (this is actually the first time I've heard of it) is denser needling than the roller, is that right? But why the switch from once a week to ever two weeks?

Yes, it's denser. It's actually the Derminator 2 that I use. It's just a professional quality microneedling pen. As for the frequency I still want to read the quorum sensing study again with what we now know about Follica in mind. Hair count increased ~10% during the 11-14 day biopsies, and 13% after 84 days, so most neogensis seems to occur in the first two weeks. Greater frequency might be even better, or it might be overkill. I've thought about doing a shallow .25-.5mm wounding more frequently based on the gene expression results of the quorum sensing study. CCL2 peaked around 12 hours, but Pdgf-α did not increase until day 4. So, how often is best?

 

[That Guy]

I have really good news for you then. There's a company called Fidia in Italy that has no stock price because it's private that has been developing a hair loss lotion over the past 5 years that they bought from a highly respected cardiovascular surgeon (whose father discovered cephalosporins) who had been working on it since 2011. Their data shows roughly the same increase in terminal hair count as Follica, ~15%. They don't really have any reason to deceive since it's not like they have investors to impress. And it's not like their trial data releases are advertisements, 99.9% of their customers aren't looking at their trial data anyway. Why would they spend so many years investing in and developing this lotion if it didn't work right? That's proof enough that it works. They also had some pretty spectacular before and after photos. Lots of people in this forum saw a significant amount of regrowth in the pictures they posted. You can even order it now!

That would all hold up aside from a couple important differences.

The financial investment in Follica is millions of times greater than FIDIA's

FIDIA did not have to seek the kinds of government approval that Follica does.

also, it's been so long I don't even recall — did FIDIA even ever release actual data like this? I don't recall that being a thing.

 

[Fgsfds]

You can't seriously still consider Invitrohair legitimate...

lol, throwback to that Romanian dude on here who single handedly unveiled the entire company as a fraud. That was fun

 

[benjt2]

A few interesting points:

1. Wounding alone was more effective than Wounding + Lithium.
2. The in-office procedure will take only 5 minutes!
3. Follica's wounding method will be microneedling.
4. Follica's topical drug will initially be Minoxidil, with a custom delivery device.
5. The density of the needle wounds is important. In other words, when wounding a given area, you need a lot of needles placed close together. This maximizes follicle regeneration. This concept is known as 'quorum sensing'.
6. NDA is expected to be filed in 2020.

I have read the whole PDF and I do not see where it confirms your points 3 and 5.

They just claim that their device has a big advantage over currently available devices ("proprietary Follica device has shown advantages in scalp treatment versus commercially available skin disruption devices"), but I don't see where they claim that...

1. they actually use microneedling as a disruption technique
2. that needle densitiy is important

Where do you see these two?

 

[pegasus2]

I have read the whole PDF and I do not see where it confirms your points 3 and 5.

They just claim that their device has a big advantage over currently available devices ("proprietary Follica device has shown advantages in scalp treatment versus commercially available skin disruption devices"), but I don't see where they claim that...

1. they actually use microneedling as a disruption technique
2. that needle densitiy is important

Where do you see these two?

Read the other PDF, pages 55-56. Also, it's not needle density, it's wounding density.

 

[NewUser]

Probably means you have to do it every 3 months or so.

I have read the whole PDF and I do not see where it confirms your points 3 and 5.

They just claim that their device has a big advantage over currently available devices ("proprietary Follica device has shown advantages in scalp treatment versus commercially available skin disruption devices"), but I don't see where they claim that...

1. they actually use microneedling as a disruption technique
2. that needle densitiy is important

Where do you see these two?

Here is the link to the pdf which is a few years old. I recommend waiting for Follica's hopefully soon to be FDA-approved procedure to be released in late 2020 or 2021. Save your pristine scalp for a procedure that has been thoroughly tested. https://www.hairlosstalk.com/interact/attachments/follica-clinical-summary_compressed-pdf.132602/

 

[pegasus2]

Considering that the longer hair is gone the harder it is to get it back, I wouldn't recommend waiting. Letting bald scalp sit there just creates more problems like fibrosis, deterioration of the APM, etc. You can't afford to wait when it comes to Androgenetic Alopecia. Besides, there is no way Follica gets released next year. 2021 at the earliest.

 

[BaldLion]

Considering that the longer hair is gone the harder it is to get it back, I wouldn't recommend waiting. Letting bald scalp sit there just creates more problems like fibrosis, deterioration of the APM, etc. You can't afford to wait when it comes to Androgenetic Alopecia. Besides, there is no way Follica gets released next year. 2021 at the earliest.

Hello pegasus, i see in your regimen you taking way316606 can you tell us if you regrew hair from that please, thanks!

 

[NewUser]

Considering that the longer hair is gone the harder it is to get it back, I wouldn't recommend waiting. Letting bald scalp sit there just creates more problems like fibrosis, deterioration of the APM, etc. You can't afford to wait when it comes to Androgenetic Alopecia. Besides, there is no way Follica gets released next year. 2021 at the earliest.

I wouldn't go stabbing holes in my scalp with an unproven device sold by a company(DermaPen & Derma Roller) that received warning lettersfrom the FDA in 2015. You could be doing damage to blood vessels and nerves.

 

[pegasus2]

I wouldn't go stabbing holes in my scalp with an unproven device sold by a company(DermaPen & Derma Roller) that received warning lettersfrom the FDA in 2015. You could be doing damage to blood vessels and nerves.

I use the Derminator 2 which is no doubt as good as any device Follica has made. They have not received any warning letters from anyone, and a warning letter from the FDA does not mean anything except that they have not proven their claims, it does not mean their claims aren't true. Keep wasting time though while other people are going from NW7 to NW2. I don't know what makes you think Follica's device will be any different from a quality microneedling device from another company. Their device isn't made with magic. It's actually a pretty simple device.

Hello pegasus, i see in your regimen you taking way316606 can you tell us if you regrew hair from that please, thanks!

I just started using it last week.

 

[NewUser]

I use the Derminator 2 which is no doubt as good as any device Follica has made. They have not received any warning letters from anyone, and a warning letter from the FDA does not mean anything except that they have not proven their claims, it does not mean their claims aren't true. Keep wasting time though while other people are going from NW7 to NW2. I don't know what makes you think Follica's device will be any different from a quality microneedling device from another company. Their device isn't made with magic. It's actually a pretty simple device.



I just started using it last week.

I think you should wait. Fibrosis shouldn't matter to neogenesis. You could be *creating scar tissue and problems later on when Follica releases an FDA approved procedure.

 

[pegasus2]

This guy went from NW3-4 to this just using cheap dermarollers every day. Do you think he's glad he didn't wait?

 

[NewUser]

You can wait, but you may regret it. I don't think fibrosis is ever irrelevant, but it's not the only issue. Fibrosis is scar tissue, which if I understand you correctly is the very reason you're afraid to use a needling device other than Follica's.

I'm going to wait. A year is nothing to wait for the real deal. Good luck to you, then. Show us some pics if you can.

 

[Dimitri001]

I wouldn't go stabbing holes in my scalp with an unproven device sold by a company(DermaPen & Derma Roller) that received warning lettersfrom the FDA in 2015. You could be doing damage to blood vessels and nerves.

What warning letter? Where can I read about this?

 

[Xander94]

I wouldn't go stabbing holes in my scalp with an unproven device sold by a company(DermaPen & Derma Roller) that received warning lettersfrom the FDA in 2015. You could be doing damage to blood vessels and nerves.

I just started using it last week.

Ok so u wont use Dermapen cause it could be damaging yet you are using shady chemicals from chinese with uknown side effects ?

 

[Xander94]

Huh? I'm not sure who you're talking to here. @NewUser is the one who doesn't want to use a dermapen, and I don't think he is using any research chemicals as far as I know. I am using the Derminator 2, and WAY-316606, and I've used other research chemicals in the past with success. So I think you have the two of us confused.

ah sorry my bad

 

[HairOnFire]

I have read the whole PDF and I do not see where it confirms your points 3 and 5.

They just claim that their device has a big advantage over currently available devices ("proprietary Follica device has shown advantages in scalp treatment versus commercially available skin disruption devices"), but I don't see where they claim that...

1. they actually use microneedling as a disruption technique
2. that needle densitiy is important

Where do you see these two?

It's in the attachment on page 4 of this thread. I'd add it to this post, but I don't know how.

Concerning density, Follica mentions that 'Wounding Intensity' - which they define as depth and density - is important for regeneration. Most folks have focused on the depth part of the equation (how deep, in mm, the needles penetrate). Few have mentioned the density part of the equation. In the case of microneedling, density refers to the number of needle wounds in a given-sized area. They mentioned hair plucking (each hair pluck is a micro wound), as an example. The more hairs plucked (micro wounds) in a given-sized area, the more regeneration you get. The fewer wounds you make in an area, the less regeneration you get. This phenomenon is known as 'quorum sensing'.

One way to achieve higher density in a microneedling device is to have more needles. The closer together the needles are, the more needles you can fit in the head of the device. Presumably, in Follica's case, the size of the head of the device matches the optimal wound size, and they figured out the number of needles needed to make the optimal number of micro wounds inside the wound area, and they've figured out the precise depth, in mm, that the needles should penetrate the skin. So, when the device is placed against your skin, you immediately get the perfect number of needle wounds, spaced appropriately apart, at the perfect depth. They then move the device a little to the left or right, and repeat until they've treated the entire scalp (or whatever area of the scalp they are treating).