Exploring The Hormonal Route. Hair=life.

Experimentality

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Thanks for your answer Experimentality. I have another question, you mentioned before that you were on TRT, have you by any chance ever had a look on anything related to GDF8 inhibition? This is my next step after I am happy with my hair lol.

Regards, Descended Dog.
Yes, I know about it vaguely. However, you have to realize that molecules that bind the AR (not myostatin) are not only beneficial for muscle hypertrophy. Specifically, the brain contains a lot of AR, and molecules that bind the AR will masculinize the brain (whereas myostatin will not. It will surpress the HPTA though, and by this cause brain deprivation of androgens.). Equivalently, molecules that bind the ER will feminize the brain (to different degrees, of course). Hence, it will not suffice to replace androgens with myostatin. Furthermore, I'm not sure if myostatin is safe. However, it will probably be a major target in the coming years for muscle wasting syndromes in the elderly. I have contemplated Nandrolone monotherapy seriously in the past. To be honest, it seems the closest we're going to have to a cure in the coming decade (with hardly any side effects. Supplementing exogenous E2 may be necessary since Nandrolone doesn't aromatize). However, what made me divert to TRT instead is the fact that you can't use 5ARI's on it (since it would impart the N > DHN conversion in skin, thus yielding a more androgenic profile than without a 5ARI). The reason this is troublesome is because there will always be leftover T from the adrenals when the gonads are surpressed. The leftover T will be converted to DHT in the skin, which will yield a small androgenic contribution. I think that oral + topical Dutasteride with testosterone is superior to Nandrolone monotherapy without 5ARI's (both can be safely combined with an AR antagonist of choice, of course). The topical component is very important, because oral only inhibits ~60% of scalp DHT. I'm not very sure of this theory, so if some day I were to start losing hair again I may look into Nandrolone again. I will not be using myostatin since it doesn't align with my anti-aging beliefs.

Well, asking because with topical dutasteride 0.2 mg/day and topical estriol used at 20 mg/day for several months and now at 5 mg/day, got regrowth, mainly in the mid area, but front is better than 12 months on oral finasteride , mid is definitely a different world , so more than maintainance.

I'm wondering if few mcg of E2 can do more than estriol. Left on hold WAY-200070 and probably made the right choice so far.

Started ARV-110, 0.2 mg delivered by weekly pen microneedling 0.5 mm front, 0.75 mm mid and surrounding areas. ARV-110 mw is 812 Da, 120 h oral half-life, so I had to replace my standard microneedling follica-like , 0.8-1.0 mm every other week, with this milder and more frequent treatment.
That's great news! I am becoming more and more convinced that Dutasteride mesotherapy (that is, combined with needling to increase absorption) is extremely potent and useful. And yes, a few micrograms of E2 will be more potent than any amount of E3. I've talked about this before, it has to do with the efficiency of the ligand at the receptor. E3 only activates about 15% of the ER-beta at saturated concentration. That means it misses out on 85% of the transcribeable genes of ER-beta. E2 is a full agonist meaning it will induce transcription of all ER-beta associated genes. I also talked about WAY in a similar setting: basically it's unknown what the efficiency of this ligand is at the receptor. Full agonists are actually quite rare, so it's not very likely to be one. Erteberel is one, and could induce a similar response at ER-beta as E2 while leaving ER-alpha. However, only a micrograms of E2 is needed to saturate the receptors, which will not give any systemic sides effects on ER-alpha. ER-alpha activation in the scalp won't happen, since the scalp hardly has any. Basically, E2 and Erteberel should be equally effective, where Erteberel is outrageously expensive and E2 basically free at the amounts that are used.

My opinion on AR degraders is this. When enough of an AR antagonist is provided, all receptors will be blocked. The body can only upregulate AR so much, so at a certain point the AR antagonist is powerful enough to block all receptors even when receptor density increased. So, I think AR degraders are superfluous and one may as well use an AR antagonist (Bica, Apa, Enza or Daro). However, I am very curious to see your results. Did you by chance use any AR antagonists in the past to serve as comparison?

Edit: everywhere I wrote myostatin should of course be myostatin inhibitor.
 
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Almas_NW0

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Nghtly

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Hi guys am still a Norwood 1 with hairloss all over my scalp (even donor area). been having hairloss for 7 years now, i use to have zayn malik hair density and hairline The tempels are slidely receding but overall hair density slowly getting worse. I have very thick hair and tried Finasteride 3 years ago and it whent Horrible . I always had hairloss but only slidely thinning on the Hairline i used finasteride for over 8 month and it whas completely destroying me.... Oily skin, Acne all over my scalp, Burning sensation i litterly could not sleep and my hairloss when from 170 hairs falling out a day too 500. So now am really scared to start with finasteride again. I am whilling to take Female hormone i think its called HRT but i whas searching up on internet the side effects like breast cancer/stroke/blood clots in your blood vessels, And all that made me really scared... Any help or tips? PS sorry for my bad english
 
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Nghtly

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Oh wow this thread's grown alooot. If anyone is interested I posted an update to my success stories thread after year+ hiatus. Oh, and hello again everyone :)
How is your hair now? I had reflex hyper on finasteride 3 years ago and am scared to jump on it again...... I am whilling to start HRT but super scared of cancer blood clots and strokes... Any advise hope your still around here.
 

Almas_NW0

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Hello Almas. Looking at this gives me some hope... Could you maybe read my message above and maybe help me or give any tips. Much appreciated.
The side effects of HRT are greatly exaggerated. I have been using it for almost 5 months and cannot name any negative side effects other than gynecomastia.
However, I must tell you that, nevertheless, this is not a toy and requires determination. If you think that hair is important to you and you cannot imagine life without it - yes, this is what you need. To avoid hurting yourself, take estradiol in the safest form, and don't take CPA - it's not the best antiandrogen. I recommend injections (1 shot every 2 weeks - very convenient) and Bicalutamide
 

MylovelyHair

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The side effects of HRT are greatly exaggerated. I have been using it for almost 5 months and cannot name any negative side effects other than gynecomastia.
However, I must tell you that, nevertheless, this is not a toy and requires determination. If you think that hair is important to you and you cannot imagine life without it - yes, this is what you need. To avoid hurting yourself, take estradiol in the safest form, and don't take CPA - it's not the best antiandrogen. I recommend injections (1 shot every 2 weeks - very convenient) and Bicalutamide
Have you seen results on hair on those 5 months you are taking HRT??
 

Almas_NW0

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Have you seen results on hair on those 5 months you are taking HRT??
I saw the result after 2 months and 10 days. Now I am approaching Norwood 0. I think I will become one before the new year, when 6 months have passed since the start of HRT.
The bad news is that despite this restoration, hair quality is not going to improve. And this is what I want to achieve - the ideal that I had as a teenager. But I hope it’s a matter of time and I’ll meet it in 9 months.
 

MylovelyHair

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I saw the result after 2 months and 10 days. Now I am approaching Norwood 0. I think I will become one before the new year, when 6 months have passed since the start of HRT.
The bad news is that despite this restoration, hair quality is not going to improve. And this is what I want to achieve - the ideal that I had as a teenager. But I hope it’s a matter of time and I’ll meet it in 9 months.
But you have a full head of hair with crown full too??
 

Almas_NW0

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But you have a full head of hair with crown full too??
Before HRT, I had a Norwood 1 with thinning in the parting and crown. It is difficult to explain, but the hair in these areas did not grow longer than 1cm. Now they seem to be lengthening as estrogen increases the anagen phase. But neither the hair in the crown, nor in the parting, nor on the hairline increases in thickness and does not improve the quality. Therefore, I will not be able to wear a voluminous hairstyle for a long time.
I think hair quality will be the last to improve as it deteriorated when I was Norwood 0. So I'm not looking forward to it this year. And I'm not sure if 9-12 months will be enough for me. However, I am afraid to use HRT for longer due to changes in the pelvic bone and excessive feminization, so I may have to take a forced break. Do not know. In general, let's wait and see. The main thing is that I was able to do something about it. And everything else is little things in life
 

tato123

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Hello guys.

I have some important information to share here.

I'm the E2 cycle guy.


Well, I want to reiterate some points here.


I passed the 1 year mark using e2 on my scalp, but

I was forced to stop E2 for about 40 days, I had a drop in my insane libido and breast tenderness, I noticed that E2 accumulates in the tissues, even with low doses and with normal testosterone tests if the e2 doses are maintained for a long time you will be able to feel the effects.

My testosterone I already sent the exams here is around 1300.

Even with this amount of testosterone I was starting to show breast sensitivity, loss of libido (very strong), fortifying my thought that our endocrine system is a fine organized tract, it's not just high testosterone or high E2, we need balance

I felt my hair alive, strong, hydrated, even with that dose of testosterone, but my E2 was also high.

But I'm an XY myself, and I like to have sex, so after a few months with me titrating the dose of e2 up and narrowing the spaces between cycles, I got to the point of going 3 times a week for a few months then at some point it started, it came as a difficulty in maintaining an erection, then the complete death of my little friend.

I said I will do a cycle of greater periodicity because my endocrine system must be flooded with e2 I spent 40 days without passing e2 on my scalp.

My conclusion was bizarre, my hair lost quality, hydration, and went into a shedding in these 40 days, and it's noticeable if nothing is done I'll start to retreat again, so I went back to e2 now stumbling down.

I'm not going to stop the E2 I'm going to hold the dosage until I find the middle ground.

But the secret is here, I thought and you should know.

I'm on finasteride, oral minoxidil and e2 on the scalp.


NOTE: I didn't have shedding when I stopped anything

I stopped bicalutamide, without shed
I stopped CPA, without shed
I stopped spironolactone, without shed
I stopped E2, shed insane.

Well, there are people who swear that they don't have erection problems using medications of this type, well I tato123 every time I feel it, whether with CPA or E2, or with flutamide, I clearly lose libido, and this is an expected effect!!! CPA in my country is used to treat rapists as it totally takes away their erection power followed by T block and E2 BLOCK, so if you can maintain erection even by doing this I admire and believe.

BUT IT IS AN EXPECTED EFFECT!!!!

But I've already used CPA with high doses of E2 to compensate for its blockage and lost my libido anyway.

The labs did study groups of hundreds of people and tracked their side effects.

Say that those who do HRT don't have erection problems but compared to what? Because when comparing yourself with a healthy man without any problems, it's even slutty to make a statement like that with someone who reads.

Except for the bicalutamide, I didn't feel anything but will need take with E2, ok bicalutamide and e2 will KILL your little friend.

Everyone does what they want, I'm here too and I'm doing everything I can, but I can't omit my truth, whoever is here reading needs to be aware of what they're doing.
 
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MylovelyHair

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Hello guys.

I have some important information to share here.

I'm the E2 cycle guy.


Well, I want to reiterate some points here.


I passed the 1 year mark using e2 on my scalp, but

I was forced to stop E2 for about 40 days, I had a drop in my insane libido and breast tenderness, I noticed that E2 accumulates in the tissues, even with low doses and with normal testosterone tests if the e2 doses are maintained for a long time you will be able to feel the effects.

My testosterone I already sent the exams here is around 1300.

Even with this amount of testosterone I was starting to show breast sensitivity, loss of libido (very strong), fortifying my thought that our endocrine system is a fine organized tract, it's not just high testosterone or high E2, we need balance

I felt my hair alive, strong, hydrated, even with that dose of testosterone, but my E2 was also high.

But I'm an XY myself, and I like to have sex, so after a few months with me titrating the dose of e2 up and narrowing the spaces between cycles, I got to the point of going 3 times a week for a few months then at some point it started, it came as a difficulty in maintaining an erection, then the complete death of my little friend.

I said I will do a cycle of greater periodicity because my endocrine system must be flooded with e2 I spent 40 days without passing e2 on my scalp.

My conclusion was bizarre, my hair lost quality, hydration, and went into a shedding in these 40 days, and it's noticeable if nothing is done I'll start to retreat again, so I went back to e2 now stumbling down.

I'm not going to stop the E2 I'm going to hold the dosage until I find the middle ground.

But the secret is here, I thought and you should know.

I'm on finasteride, oral minoxidil and e2 on the scalp.


NOTE: I didn't have shedding when I stopped anything

I stopped bicalutamide, without shed
I stopped CPA, without shed
I stopped spironolactone, without shed
I stopped E2, shed insane.

Well, there are people who swear that they don't have erection problems using medications of this type, well I tato123 every time I feel it, whether with CPA or E2, or with flutamide, I clearly lose libido, and this is an expected effect!!! CPA in my country is used to treat rapists as it totally takes away their erection power followed by T block and E2 BLOCK, so if you can maintain erection even by doing this I admire and believe.

BUT IT IS AN EXPECTED EFFECT!!!!

But I've already used CPA with high doses of E2 to compensate for its blockage and lost my libido anyway.

The labs did study groups of hundreds of people and tracked their side effects.

Say that those who do HRT don't have erection problems but compared to what? Because when comparing yourself with a healthy man without any problems, it's even slutty to make a statement like that with someone who reads.

Except for the bicalutamide, I didn't feel anything but will need take with E2, ok bicalutamide and e2 will KILL your little friend.

Everyone does what they want, I'm here too and I'm doing everything I can, but I can't omit my truth, whoever is here reading needs to be aware of what they're doing.
At least do you have fully recoverd hair ??
 

MylovelyHair

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Before HRT, I had a Norwood 1 with thinning in the parting and crown. It is difficult to explain, but the hair in these areas did not grow longer than 1cm. Now they seem to be lengthening as estrogen increases the anagen phase. But neither the hair in the crown, nor in the parting, nor on the hairline increases in thickness and does not improve the quality. Therefore, I will not be able to wear a voluminous hairstyle for a long time.
I think hair quality will be the last to improve as it deteriorated when I was Norwood 0. So I'm not looking forward to it this year. And I'm not sure if 9-12 months will be enough for me. However, I am afraid to use HRT for longer due to changes in the pelvic bone and excessive feminization, so I may have to take a forced break. Do not know. In general, let's wait and see. The main thing is that I was able to do something about it. And everything else is little things in life
Is it possible the thickness you are desire to never be achieved or do you believe after 1.5 to 2 years you will have complete reversal??
 

Derelict

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Im shedding like crazy and my crown has become much thinner since i started estradiol, im going to ride it out and hope for some regrowth in the next 6 months or so. When i do pull tests im losing alot of hair.
 

Guru0007

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Im shedding like crazy and my crown has become much thinner since i started estradiol, im going to ride it out and hope for some regrowth in the next 6 months or so. When i do pull tests im losing alot of hair.
Just a shed... Don't worry stick with it
 

Almas_NW0

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Is it possible the thickness you are desire to never be achieved or do you believe after 1.5 to 2 years you will have complete reversal??
I have the same question. If you look at other examples, then I see how after some time the quality of the hair, thickness and shine return, so there is hope. Moreover, I am not too bald. However, there are other examples: Ikarus, for example, could not restore the quality of his hair, but he was bald more than me
In general, this is a mystery to me, I'll just wait and see what happens next. I am inclined to believe that I will return the ideal, however, this can take a very long time and after canceling E, I immediately get a strong deterioration. Therefore, the most interesting is yet to come.
 

Experimentality

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Hello guys.

I have some important information to share here.

I'm the E2 cycle guy.


Well, I want to reiterate some points here.


I passed the 1 year mark using e2 on my scalp, but

I was forced to stop E2 for about 40 days, I had a drop in my insane libido and breast tenderness, I noticed that E2 accumulates in the tissues, even with low doses and with normal testosterone tests if the e2 doses are maintained for a long time you will be able to feel the effects.

My testosterone I already sent the exams here is around 1300.

Even with this amount of testosterone I was starting to show breast sensitivity, loss of libido (very strong), fortifying my thought that our endocrine system is a fine organized tract, it's not just high testosterone or high E2, we need balance

I felt my hair alive, strong, hydrated, even with that dose of testosterone, but my E2 was also high.

But I'm an XY myself, and I like to have sex, so after a few months with me titrating the dose of e2 up and narrowing the spaces between cycles, I got to the point of going 3 times a week for a few months then at some point it started, it came as a difficulty in maintaining an erection, then the complete death of my little friend.

I said I will do a cycle of greater periodicity because my endocrine system must be flooded with e2 I spent 40 days without passing e2 on my scalp.

My conclusion was bizarre, my hair lost quality, hydration, and went into a shedding in these 40 days, and it's noticeable if nothing is done I'll start to retreat again, so I went back to e2 now stumbling down.

I'm not going to stop the E2 I'm going to hold the dosage until I find the middle ground.

But the secret is here, I thought and you should know.

I'm on finasteride, oral minoxidil and e2 on the scalp.


NOTE: I didn't have shedding when I stopped anything

I stopped bicalutamide, without shed
I stopped CPA, without shed
I stopped spironolactone, without shed
I stopped E2, shed insane.

Well, there are people who swear that they don't have erection problems using medications of this type, well I tato123 every time I feel it, whether with CPA or E2, or with flutamide, I clearly lose libido, and this is an expected effect!!! CPA in my country is used to treat rapists as it totally takes away their erection power followed by T block and E2 BLOCK, so if you can maintain erection even by doing this I admire and believe.

BUT IT IS AN EXPECTED EFFECT!!!!

But I've already used CPA with high doses of E2 to compensate for its blockage and lost my libido anyway.

The labs did study groups of hundreds of people and tracked their side effects.

Say that those who do HRT don't have erection problems but compared to what? Because when comparing yourself with a healthy man without any problems, it's even slutty to make a statement like that with someone who reads.

Except for the bicalutamide, I didn't feel anything but will need take with E2, ok bicalutamide and e2 will KILL your little friend.

Everyone does what they want, I'm here too and I'm doing everything I can, but I can't omit my truth, whoever is here reading needs to be aware of what they're doing.
Thanks for checking in again. Wise decision by listening to your body. What E2 dosage were you using topically? As I demonstrated before if you're using anything in excess of 1mcg/mL (yes, micrograms) you may as well use it sublingually. The receptors in the scalp will be saturated at that concentration. I strongly suspect that your results were from the E2 going transdermal into circulation, and thereby increasing your systemic E2 level (as indicated by your side effects). While in theory topical E2 sounds terrific, in practice it seems to be more modest in it's effects (while sublingual/oral/transdermal E2 as in HRT is much more potent). Not useless, just more subtle. Anyway, good luck. Hope you can balance results/side effects.
 

tato123

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Thanks for checking in again. Wise decision by listening to your body. What E2 dosage were you using topically? As I demonstrated before if you're using anything in excess of 1mcg/mL (yes, micrograms) you may as well use it sublingually. The receptors in the scalp will be saturated at that concentration. I strongly suspect that your results were from the E2 going transdermal into circulation, and thereby increasing your systemic E2 level (as indicated by your side effects). While in theory topical E2 sounds terrific, in practice it seems to be more modest in it's effects (while sublingual/oral/transdermal E2 as in HRT is much more potent). Not useless, just more subtle. Anyway, good luck. Hope you can balance results/side effects.
I use transdermal gel, but on the scalp.

It may seem like a placebo since the gel is transdermal but I feel it has more effect like that haha.

I don't know if I have the courage to use it sublingually, I fear for the side effects, fertility is really something that worries me and I know I'm already at risk. What is your opinion about this? I haven't read what you guys said about sublingual e2, sorry.

At least transdermal I can regulate the dosage well, well I use half a click of the pump in each dosage of around 0.30mg e2 per day.

In the beginning it took every other week, but the effects are amazing you feel super good, then I started doing it 3 times a week without breaks, then 5 times a week without breaks, that's when I felt the side effects but I was at my peak of growth.

For those who asked, I'm a "FullHead" today, i was a nw2 in the worst phase my problem is the fronts, I always had a lot of volume, today I'm at nw0-1, but I lack volume to make a big topknot for example, I gained a lot of hair but the whole treatment is a limbo you need to be always titrating writing down researching this is really a pain, every shedding scares us a lot.


I've already posted too many pictures here on this forum, believe me when I say, lots and lots of them.

But I won't be posting a photo every time a new user joins the conversation, it's nothing against you, I just don't want to always have my image linked to the content.
 
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