Exploring The Hormonal Route. Hair=life.

MylovelyHair

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I use transdermal gel, but on the scalp.

It may seem like a placebo since the gel is transdermal but I feel it has more effect like that haha.

I don't know if I have the courage to use it sublingually, I fear for the side effects, fertility is really something that worries me and I know I'm already at risk. What is your opinion about this? I haven't read what you guys said about sublingual e2, sorry.

At least transdermal I can regulate the dosage well, well I use half a click of the pump in each dosage of around 0.30mg e2 per day.

In the beginning it took every other week, but the effects are amazing you feel super good, then I started doing it 3 times a week without breaks, then 5 times a week without breaks, that's when I felt the side effects but I was at my peak of growth.

For those who asked, I'm a "FullHead" today, i was a nw2 in the worst phase my problem is the fronts, I always had a lot of volume, today I'm at nw0-1, but I lack volume to make a big topknot for example, I gained a lot of hair but the whole treatment is a limbo you need to be always titrating writing down researching this is really a pain, every shedding scares us a lot.


I've already posted too many pictures here on this forum, believe me when I say, lots and lots of them.

But I won't be posting a photo every time a new user joins the conversation, it's nothing against you, I just don't want to always have my image linked to the content.
crown full without any thinning?
 

tato123

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@tato123
You could try testosterone gel on your genitals and see if it helps?
Personally I have no problem maintaining erections but libido is low.
Yes, this is all very relative, it depends on the day, it depends on the woman you are going to have sex with.

When I say I've lost my sexual potency I don't mean I'm weak man It's not that I didn't have an erection, it's not that, but an aggressive drop in libido, I have a girlfriend and I know my body, I could have sex, but I didn't always feel like it, not always! maybe a few times a month, when I tried to have sex without feeling like it, my erection was not maintained and I almost never felt like it, low libido, Can you live with it? Your wife wants to have sex with you and you don't feel like it most of the time? Is good for you? Think about that.

That's what I mean! I can't live with it, unfortunately I like to have sex when I can.

The idea I think is similar, women have a lower sexual appetite than us men, and switching to the female hormonal profile it would be logical to expect some effect of this type.

So I said, your erection is good compared to what?

I like to feel desire, I like that animal side, I like to look at my wife and desire her, I don't know, I like being a man, I was born that way, messing with our libido has greater effects than you can imagine.


I'm not going to try testosterone on my genitals, I'm managing to keep my hypothalamic axis on, even taking e2 which is the end of the testosterone cycle, the chance of me sealing my hypothalamic axis by passing exogenous testosterone +e2 is huge.
 

Analogies

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Yes, this is all very relative, it depends on the day, it depends on the woman you are going to have sex with.

When I say I've lost my sexual potency I don't mean I'm weak man It's not that I didn't have an erection, it's not that, but an aggressive drop in libido, I have a girlfriend and I know my body, I could have sex, but I didn't always feel like it, not always! maybe a few times a month, when I tried to have sex without feeling like it, my erection was not maintained and I almost never felt like it, low libido, Can you live with it? Your wife wants to have sex with you and you don't feel like it most of the time? Is good for you? Think about that.

That's what I mean! I can't live with it, unfortunately I like to have sex when I can.

The idea I think is similar, women have a lower sexual appetite than us men, and switching to the female hormonal profile it would be logical to expect some effect of this type.

So I said, your erection is good compared to what?

I like to feel desire, I like that animal side, I like to look at my wife and desire her, I don't know, I like being a man, I was born that way, messing with our libido has greater effects than you can imagine.


I'm not going to try testosterone on my genitals, I'm managing to keep my hypothalamic axis on, even taking e2 which is the end of the testosterone cycle, the chance of me sealing my hypothalamic axis by passing exogenous testosterone +e2 is huge.
Why don’t you attempt to understand your blood work first. You mentioned 1300 total T but what’s your free T? I’d bet it’s in the dump and your SHBG is through the roof. If so, take some boron to lower your SHBG and unbound your total T so you have more in circulation. That is, unless, you’ve blocked the AR with Bica, CPA etc.
 

tato123

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Why don’t you attempt to understand your blood work first. You mentioned 1300 total T but what’s your free T? I’d bet it’s in the dump and your SHBG is through the roof. If so, take some boron to lower your SHBG and unbound your total T so you have more in circulation. That is, unless, you’ve blocked the AR with Bica, CPA etc.
High e2 levels increase SHBG this is an expected effect, SHBG acts as a "binder" for my testosterone bind her and inactive biology effect , so my total testosterone is high there is a lot testosterona circulating bound to SHBG, because this my testosterona is high

I just meant that half-axle is still on and even though it's high SHBG, falsifying my T values, I still keep decent T production..
My free testosterone is within range normal.



I'm following everything closely, and I have a degree in the area, but thanks for "watching your exam first."

Thanks for the boron tip.
 
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Analogies

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High e2 levels increase SHBG this is an expected effect, SHBG acts as a "binder" for my testosterone bind her and inactive biology effect , so my total testosterone is high there is a lot testosterona circulating bound to SHBG, because this my testosterona is high

I just meant that half-axle is still on and even though it's high SHBG, falsifying my T values, I still keep decent T production..
My free testosterone is within range normal.



I'm following everything closely, and I have a degree in the area, but thanks for "watching your exam first."

Thanks for the boron tip.
Seems you’re well aware of the downstream effects of applying exogenous E2 and or AR antagonist. How long has it been since discontinuing BICA/CPA/spironolactone? I’m curious if these AR antagonist are still in your system.

Also, It could be that when you discontinued the AR antagonist that it was still in your system for some time before the effects wore off and you started to lose hair.

I’ve been on Topical E2 .75mg everyday for 40 days and haven’t seen any signs of growth. Which leads me to believe blocking the AR is necessary for any growth. I’ll be starting topical ARV-110 today in hopes of keeping the AR on my scalp inactive.
 

tato123

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Seems you’re well aware of the downstream effects of applying exogenous E2 and or AR antagonist. How long has it been since discontinuing BICA/CPA/spironolactone? I’m curious if these AR antagonist are still in your system.

Also, It could be that when you discontinued the AR antagonist that it was still in your system for some time before the effects wore off and you started to lose hair.

I’ve been on Topical E2 .75mg everyday for 40 days and haven’t seen any signs of growth. Which leads me to believe blocking the AR is necessary for any growth. I’ll be starting topical ARV-110 today in hopes of keeping the AR on my scalp inactive.
I wrote down everything I got in a diary.

I used CPA together with E2 and finasteride from November 19, 2020 until February 15, 2021. Giant side effects, very big headache, depression, my breasts started to change shape even if they were pointy, I didn't see so much effect on the hair, maybe an improvement of quality, as I said my recess is frontal but during that time nothing grew above the hairline, but it was visible that something was happening, a lot! What I could see is that the appearance of the hair changes before it starts to grow, it improves a lot.
When I stopped I kept E2 I just stopped CPA, switched to bicalutamide and went with bicalutamide from March 1, 2021 until June 5, I also stopped ejaculating capacity completely, totally and fucked up libido too, that's what I felt I stopped too.

So since the month of June I haven't used CPA or bicalutamide, it's been over 120 days since I've taken an AR blocker.

And my crash and loss of quality came 40 days after stopping the E2.

But I didn't spill as much, I went into a shedding, but nothing that anyone but me would notice visibly.

At the 20-30 day mark without e2 I could already notice a drop in hair quality before shedding, my hairstyles were bent and dry looking.

I remember when I was a teenager and before I started to rewind my hair lost its quality and hydration to infinity before it started to recede, it seems like I went through the same process when I removed all TRH.


It took me many months to see a difference using E2, many, I started e2 before CPA, but it's real, my skin is better using e2, I shine more when I'm on a cycle, and over time my hair improves in quality, it looks like my sisters hair.
 
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tato123

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The truth is that as friends like Almas said, when I saw that I started to lose real hair I went strong in the treatment before it could get much worse, I can't lie I was never very bald, my baldness was never so aggressive compared to that of other users so I cannot be sure of my treatment for other peoples.
Sometimes we get scared and baldness progresses to a point almost impossible to recover, I just want you to be sure of what you are doing and for sure time is the most important here, do something while it's still there. The longer you go bald the harder it is to get back, find a real protocol and follow and waiting side effects.
There is no cure, but we have treatments, you just need to start soon. I never imagined that I would use female hormones and here I am, I'm not proud of it, but it was the protocol that works for me, if hair loss scares you to the point that you think about suicide do something soon, don't let the time pass.
 

Analogies

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View attachment 171802

View attachment 171803

View attachment 171804View attachment 171805

This is me, these photos are recent, my hair combed at various angles, the last then a topknot so you can see the hair line.


I will delete soon, so you can check now.
No offense but based on your pictures I’d say you’re displaying signs of being a hypochondriac. You have no hair loss. And at the 20-30 day mark without e2 you wouldn’t have much growth to asses your hair quality changing unless it was at the root.

you literally have a complete/full hairline
 

tato123

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No offense but based on your pictures I’d say you’re displaying signs of being a hypochondriac. You have no hair loss. And at the 20-30 day mark without e2 you wouldn’t have much growth to asses your hair quality changing unless it was at the root.
That's why I said it was bizarre, it could be an association too, I just wanted to report exactly what happened. And I wasn't the first to report this.
 

tato123

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And yes I have hair loss, @Norwoody has seen my pictures before 2 years before and he will clearly see that I have a lot more hair volume today.

Others users told me I didn't have hair loss either, but the owner of the car knows where the scratches are.
 

MylovelyHair

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The truth is that as friends like Almas said, when I saw that I started to lose real hair I went strong in the treatment before it could get much worse, I can't lie I was never very bald, my baldness was never so aggressive compared to that of other users so I cannot be sure of my treatment for other peoples.
Sometimes we get scared and baldness progresses to a point almost impossible to recover, I just want you to be sure of what you are doing and for sure time is the most important here, do something while it's still there. The longer you go bald the harder it is to get back, find a real protocol and follow and waiting side effects.
There is no cure, but we have treatments, you just need to start soon. I never imagined that I would use female hormones and here I am, I'm not proud of it, but it was the protocol that works for me, if hair loss scares you to the point that you think about suicide do something soon, don't let the time pass.
Well said friend!! I am thinking suicide everyday how do you know?
 

tato123

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Well said friend!! I am thinking suicide everyday how do you know?

How could I not know? I've been there, and this hole still scares me, I understand your feeling and I'm trying to help you get out of this torture with the information I can, I don't expect anything in return, just help as you (fórum)helped me.
 
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Almas_NW0

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At the 20-30 day mark without e2 I could already notice a drop in hair quality before shedding, my hairstyles were bent and dry looking.

I remember when I was a teenager and before I started to rewind my hair lost its quality and hydration to infinity before it started to recede, it seems like I went through the same process when I removed all TRH.
You reminded me of my own baldness when it just started at the age of 16, but I did not understand what was happening and was sure that it was not baldness. In the first 2 years, my hair just got thinner, which was difficult to notice in the photos, but it was obvious to me and the hairdressers, who could no longer give me a voluminous styling. Hair has become dry, thin.
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1635490303168.png


And the bad news is that the most difficult thing is to restore their hydration, thickness, shine, which would allow them to have volume and look good, not letting in light to the scalp.
Another piece of news was announced by you: within 40 days after HRT, the hair again loses its quality and thickness. So the only way to have perfect hair is to use HRT all the time, which can be problematic in terms of long-term side effects. I don’t know yet how long it will take to get the perfect moisturized hair on E if you start therapy on Norwood 0 like in these photos. If this is a long time (and I'm sure it is), then I will have difficulties in obtaining perfect hair without the constant use of E
 

tato123

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You reminded me of my own baldness when it just started at the age of 16, but I did not understand what was happening and was sure that it was not baldness. In the first 2 years, my hair just got thinner, which was difficult to notice in the photos, but it was obvious to me and the hairdressers, who could no longer give me a voluminous styling. Hair has become dry, thin.
View attachment 171829
View attachment 171830

And the bad news is that the most difficult thing is to restore their hydration, thickness, shine, which would allow them to have volume and look good, not letting in light to the scalp.
Another piece of news was announced by you: within 40 days after HRT, the hair again loses its quality and thickness. So the only way to have perfect hair is to use HRT all the time, which can be problematic in terms of long-term side effects. I don’t know yet how long it will take to get the perfect moisturized hair on E if you start therapy on Norwood 0 like in these photos. If this is a long time (and I'm sure it is), then I will have difficulties in obtaining perfect hair without the constant use of E
Your hair is still great, you were smart and started early.

Regarding quality and hydration, from what I remember this also happened to that user noahKennedy, he said he lost quality and started to go back a little after he stopped HRT, he keeps the result today with dutasteride, but surely he should already have passed through some sheds and its volume and quality must be inferior to the peak of TRH.

Just like me, if I stopped everything now and stayed with finasteride I doubt very much that I would be nw3-4-5, but I would lose my hairline, volume and quality that's for sure, and with time I would return to milestone 0.

I would like to hear a report from him to see how much hair he has today compared to the time of HRT.

And I said that, like it might seem bizarre, it might be an association, I know the hair physiology, the phases the cycles from birth to shedding, but E2 certainly improves hair quality it makes sense it's much more common if you see women with hair Long, few men even without baldness can have this quality and quantity of anagen phase that women have, even men who were born with perfect hair if he has a sister is likely to have hair that is inferior to hers.

Based on the principle that the hair is part of the integumentary system and prostagens and estrogens increase the synthesis of various collagen substances, the intercellular matrix makes sense for the hair to accompany the improvement of the skin it is part of the same system.

For me it's already real, tested by me and other users, evidence-based medicine and I have some here, we don't have study groups on this within medicine, I've said it here several times, all of this here is a prototype we don't have research disclosed on such matters in our human medical literature but is real estrogens protagens is real f*****g good for hair.( REMEMBER SIDE EFFECTS, it's a sword with two sharp sides)

I think it's perfectly possible to have an adequate testosterone level and still have hair, but here we're talking about quality and volume.
 

Almas_NW0

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Your hair is still great, you were smart and started early.

Regarding quality and hydration, from what I remember this also happened to that user noahKennedy, he said he lost quality and started to go back a little after he stopped HRT, he keeps the result today with dutasteride, but surely he should already have passed through some sheds and its volume and quality must be inferior to the peak of TRH.

Just like me, if I stopped everything now and stayed with finasteride I doubt very much that I would be nw3-4-5, but I would lose my hairline, volume and quality that's for sure, and with time I would return to milestone 0.

I would like to hear a report from him to see how much hair he has today compared to the time of HRT.

And I said that, like it might seem bizarre, it might be an association, I know the hair physiology, the phases the cycles from birth to shedding, but E2 certainly improves hair quality it makes sense it's much more common if you see women with hair Long, few men even without baldness can have this quality and quantity of anagen phase that women have, even men who were born with perfect hair if he has a sister is likely to have hair that is inferior to hers.

Based on the principle that the hair is part of the integumentary system and prostagens and estrogens increase the synthesis of various collagen substances, the intercellular matrix makes sense for the hair to accompany the improvement of the skin it is part of the same system.

For me it's already real, tested by me and other users, evidence-based medicine and I have some here, we don't have study groups on this within medicine, I've said it here several times, all of this here is a prototype we don't have research disclosed on such matters in our human medical literature but is real estrogens protagens is real f*****g good for hair.( REMEMBER SIDE EFFECTS, it's a sword with two sharp sides)

I think it's perfectly possible to have an adequate testosterone level and still have hair, but here we're talking about quality and volume.
In Noah's case, I was disappointed that he kept us in the dark about hair quality, which was the most interesting thing for me. He made a short haircut and dyed his hair, so it was not clear from the photo. And he reported deterioration when the growth line began to recede rather than deteriorate in thickness and quality. Unfortunately, he did not pay attention to this issue, so I am the first to check it after HRT.
 

Trafalgar Law

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It's going fine, still using the same compounds. To be honest, regrowth is just a long shot with any treatment except for maybe HRT (and then again, there are many who don't regrow any cosmetically relevant amounts of hair with HRT). I have said many times that cosmetically relevant regrowth should not be expected with whatever treatment you choose. My topical maintains my hair just fine, and maybe there is some slight thickening going on (hardly cosmetically relevant). The best thing is that there have been no side effects at all, and all my blood markers remained roughly the same. In time, I will probably get a small transplant to fix my NW2 to NW1. I could have included minoxidil, but in all honesty it's just a temporary band-aid with many bothersome side effects (at least for me). I would advise anyone to stay away from it, because it does more damage than good and won't solve your problems with hair.

If I had to rate compounds in my topical in order of effectiveness, E2 would probably end somewhere near the bottom. I think that the AR antagonist (Daro) is the most important, closely followed by Dutasteride. Hence, I would postulate that I could get the bulk of my maintenance with just an AR antagonist (not RU of course, far too weak) and Dutasteride.

This is why I'm considering a once-a-week regimen I suggested @Norwoody containing just Bicalutamide and Dutasteride. It removes the trouble of applying topicals daily and would probably be as effective in maintaining my hair. However, I will stay on my topical for at least six more months before (potentially) switching to something else.
When you advise against the use of minoxidil, are you referring to its oral or topical form? If so why? In any case you are one of the few people I know of who would make such a suggestion. Most hair loss gurus on YouTube reccommend the use of topical (and sometime oral) minoxidil without reservation.
 
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