Exploring The Hormonal Route. Hair=life.

nicoandgello

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Yes. Follicles are a complex organ. Trying to regenerate it takes a long time. Compare it to skin and fat distribution... that changes (*TRANSITIONS*) pretty quickly. But hair...

You will most likely loose your dick before you get any hair results on this route of treatment.
Fat redistribution can take up to 7 years tho
 

Fuchsilein

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You are not considering that:
1) Many people want to keep or slightly thicken their hair, and not grow it out. People need to stop baldness
2) None of the cis guys want to use E all their lives. Therefore, we return to the first point: we need support.

I want to try high doses of estrogen in the future with breast removal surgery, but since I don't want to use this all my life, I need supportive therapy anyway. And Bicalutamide is the best option for support
You need support after HRT rather than before your problem is fixed and the solution to your problem is estrogen. After that you can probably maintain with Minoxidil and Finasteride. If you are worried about castration ending up to be permanent, you can cycle HCG. But even without it's more unlikely than likely that castration becomes permanent.
 

Almas

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You need support after HRT rather than before your problem is fixed and the solution to your problem is estrogen. After that you can probably maintain with Minoxidil and Finasteride. If you are worried about castration ending up to be permanent, you can cycle HCG. But even without it's more unlikely than likely that castration becomes permanent.
First, I need to find out which scheme stops baldness and will support me. So that after HRT I know what to do and do not get worse
Finasteride and minoxidil? lol
 

Almas

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Thats pretty much contraproductive, in my eyes.

You have to stay on E for a long time to crush your production of T for ever. And you have to stay on E as well for a long time to REGROW your hair.

Be careful what you wish for...
I reread Noah's posts and also saw that he was losing muscle mass
My hair isn't bad enough to take this risk. So I will try 2 presses of estrogel. Not sure if this will give anything, but I will try

The amount of aromatase in the back of the head is 3 times higher than in the forehead. Our goal is to increase the aromatase to the same values throughout the head, so that the nape environment is on the top of the head. But it is not known what levels of E are needed to cause such changes
I think 300 pg/ml might be enough
 

Fuchsilein

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I reread Noah's posts and also saw that he was losing muscle mass
My hair isn't bad enough to take this risk. So I will try 2 presses of estrogel. Not sure if this will give anything, but I will try

The amount of aromatase in the back of the head is 3 times higher than in the forehead. Our goal is to increase the aromatase to the same values throughout the head, so that the nape environment is on the top of the head. But it is not known what levels of E are needed to cause such changes
I think 300 pg/ml might be enough
That is an interesting approach.

But I still think you should focus on regaining your hair as quickly as possible. The longer you keep receding, the more time you will have to commit to estrogen exposure. You should start early to *minimize* unwanted side effects.
 

Almas

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That is an interesting approach.

But I still think you should focus on regaining your hair as quickly as possible. The longer you keep receding, the more time you will have to commit to estrogen exposure. You should start early to *minimize* unwanted side effects.
There is a choice, relatively speaking, between low doses of E and long-term hair restoration, or 6mg E, which will restore hair in 3 months. Don't know which option is safer
Also the problem is that we have no idea what levels of E are sufficient. But I start to push off from 300 pg ml, this is the minimum level for MTF
 

Rysteve93

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There is a choice, relatively speaking, between low doses of E and long-term hair restoration, or 6mg E, which will restore hair in 3 months. Don't know which option is safer
Also the problem is that we have no idea what levels of E are sufficient. But I start to push off from 300 pg ml, this is the minimum level for MTF
Your thoughts on 1.5mg once daily, Estrogel? Too little?
 

Almas

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Your thoughts on 1.5mg once daily, Estrogel? Too little?
I thought about it too. I do not know what levels of E this will give, probably it is individual. Icarus was able to increase my E to 700 pg / ml by 2 mg E (sublingually, as I understand it)
Most likely, this will not be enough. The problem is that we do not know what levels of E are needed for hair growth, whether it is necessary to suppress T
But if we talk about the initial levels for HRT, we need 300 pg ml. To get these levels, I think you need about 4mg E
 

JaneyElizabeth

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My gut feeling is that low-dose HRT might work to maintain hair but to actually awaken dormant follicles, you might need to "trick" the body's systems into regarding you as XX. At this point, the body sends the appropriate resources to repair the dormant follicles and "to turn them on" again. There's really no need for males to expend resources which are endogenous on hair restoration. For females, hair is actually essential to children's safety as they grab their mother's tresses for balance and safety before walking.
 

JaneyElizabeth

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Your thoughts on 1.5mg once daily, Estrogel? Too little?
That could work especially if topical and overall systemic estradiol work synergistically. However, it could be right in the breast development sweet spot for larger breasts. That's what makes this tricky. If you use too little E2, you get lackluster results but just a little more puts a person into prime breast development territory especially if using a blocker, it would seem, although we don't have good data on that but spironolactone might aid breast growth when combined with low-dose E2, not high dose E2. It also depends on your current hair and time frame and whether you are in reproductive mode.
 

Rysteve93

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I thought about it too. I do not know what levels of E this will give, probably it is individual. Icarus was able to increase my E to 700 pg / ml by 2 mg E (sublingually, as I understand it)
Most likely, this will not be enough. The problem is that we do not know what levels of E are needed for hair growth, whether it is necessary to suppress T
But if we talk about the initial levels for HRT, we need 300 pg ml. To get these levels, I think you need about 4mg E
Hmm, bic with low does E has potential then as bic does increase E also? I’m just thinking out loud here. I can confirm gyno is happening
50mg bic & 1.5 mg E (sore to touch lol)
 

Rysteve93

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That could work especially if topical and overall systemic estradiol work synergistically. However, it could be right in the breast development sweet spot for larger breasts. That's what makes this tricky. If you use too little E2, you get lackluster results but just a little more puts a person into prime breast development territory especially if using a blocker, it would seem, although we don't have good data on that but spironolactone might aid breast growth when combined with low-dose E2, not high dose E2. It also depends on your current hair and time frame and whether you are in reproductive mode.

short hair was 14month ago. Dht was decimating my temples they have fully recovered I’m now recovering hairline(it’s slow)
 

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JaneyElizabeth

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short hair was 14month ago. Dht was decimating my temples they have fully recovered I’m now recovering hairline(it’s slow)
Those appear to be superlative results worth a fair amount of breast development, at least to me but I stopped fighting breast development about 18 months ago. I just had to choose hair, knowing that I was probably going to have substantial breast growth cause I already did at that point. So since you have had extensive regrowth, how does it feel? To me, it's the greatest feeling in the world really bar none. None of that not appreciating something once I get it. I brush and comb many times a day and I cut and trim and style it myself. Hair takes a looong time but it is so worth it. I was just thrilled with my rolling curls this morning; no more mullet look for me, now it is the relaxed sort of curl that many white females have. It's getting closer to the bottom of my ears and beginning to frame my face again. I could use a bit more in the corners and some length but I am just elated!
 

Almas

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My gut feeling is that low-dose HRT might work to maintain hair but to actually awaken dormant follicles, you might need to "trick" the body's systems into regarding you as XX. At this point, the body sends the appropriate resources to repair the dormant follicles and "to turn them on" again. There's really no need for males to expend resources which are endogenous on hair restoration. For females, hair is actually essential to children's safety as they grab their mother's tresses for balance and safety before walking.
Much depends on how dire the situation is. I have no dead follicles, all follicles are alive, but there are problems with the quality of the hair. I do not think that in such cases high doses of E are required, I will focus on 300 pg ml
I will try to do without surgery and use Tamoxifen. It raises T and is bad for the hair, but when using E it shouldn't play a big role. It seems to only block estrogen in the breasts. I hope so.
My breasts are not sensitive to estrogen, they don't care about using Bicalutamide, so I think I can handle HRT with tamoxifen. I would take Raloxifene, but it is not in Russia
 

HelpMyHair!!

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The whole fuckin thing really doesn't make sense when you really think about it.

I am truly starting to believe everybody has a "sweet spot", due to a plethora of factors (number of AR in the follicles, aromatose, etc etc).

DHT GROWS hair on a male body. DHT is an anti-inflamatory everywhere else, why does it destroy male pattern baldness follicles, in certain males.

It makes 0 sense. I think if anything, the reason Finasteride/Dutasteride works or shows a slight improvement in some is because of the Estrogen increase, NOT the DHT suppression.

I know, I know, everybody likes to hang their hat on the study on 5ar deficient males never going bald as the end all/be all. Maybe those 5ar deficient males never go bald because testosterone at the follicle HAS to be converted to Estrogen by default, rather than DHT.

Maybe as we age, and our testosterone levels begin to drop slowly, the body is forced to convert more of the dwindling T to DHT to "make up" for the lack of T, by converting it to the more powerful by-product? Maybe the body selectively chooses areas it deems as "not critical" for the increased T/DHT conversion to get by?

This is all bro-science of course, but there HAS to be an answer somewhere in the middle.
 
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