Exploring The Hormonal Route. Hair=life.

[Deacr4]

Hey guys, first found this thread a few years ago and found out about how hormones play such a role in hair loss. Amazed at the continued results a lot of you are getting ^^

I first really noticed hair loss around 19 but it must have started at 16/17, mainly lost hair around the temples and a little thinner generally on top but it's not so bad. I've started taking Bica 50mg for a couple of months now as well as Fina, what are the chances of getting regrowth with this combo? I'm about a 2 or 3 on the norwood scale. Thinking about adding in 2mg Estradiol as well I don't mind all of the side effects haha, some I welcome tbh. I'll have to get my sperm frozen first though.

Anyway thanks for the inspiration, I feel lucky to be born at a time where this is possible and there's all this info on the net, yet unlucky to have lost hair so young haha

 

[Father_of_Shiseido]

Hey guys, first found this thread a few years ago and found out about how hormones play such a role in hair loss. Amazed at the continued results a lot of you are getting ^^

I first really noticed hair loss around 19 but it must have started at 16/17, mainly lost hair around the temples and a little thinner generally on top but it's not so bad. I've started taking Bica 50mg for a couple of months now as well as Fina, what are the chances of getting regrowth with this combo? I'm about a 2 or 3 on the norwood scale. Thinking about adding in 2mg Estradiol as well I don't mind all of the side effects haha, some I welcome tbh. I'll have to get my sperm frozen first though.

Anyway thanks for the inspiration, I feel lucky to be born at a time where this is possible and there's all this info on the net, yet unlucky to have lost hair so young haha

What side effects do you have on bicalutamide?

 

[Deacr4]

What side effects do you have on bicalutamide?

So far my libido has gone down a little and some unnoticeable gyno, being skinny probably helps keep that under control. Early days though.

 

[Kaue carrera]

With your age, you won't experience much 'feminisation' from bicalutamide at the doses of 50mg/day, but you will produce gynecomastia and will appear demasculinised nonetheless, and the gynecomastia is certain even with low doses. I think you should just combine dutasteride and oral minoxidil, and see how that goes.

Ikarus

For people who take finasteride once a day

Does adding Dutasteride once a week make any sense?

 

[baldingAF]

What is the active form of spironolatone? Is it something that can be applied topically?

dang bica sounds good besides the gyno. Is that the only negative side? Also has anyone had regrowth on bica WITHOUT some additional E2?

I need a solid agent for the androgen receptor and I’ll be good for a few months as I think what I have covers the other angles.

 

[Ikarus]

Ikarus

For people who take finasteride once a day

Does adding Dutasteride once a week make any sense?

In my opinion, no, since dutasteride has to build up in your body to reach its effect. It will build up with that weekly dosage, but it’d take much longer.

 

[Father_of_Shiseido]

What is the active form of spironolatone? Is it something that can be applied topically?

dang bica sounds good besides the gyno. Is that the only negative side? Also has anyone had regrowth on bica WITHOUT some additional E2?

I need a solid agent for the androgen receptor and I’ll be good for a few months as I think what I have covers the other angles.

@Ein

 

[Yar]

guys who are bald just become trance!

 

[Deacr4]

guys who are bald just become trance!

 

[Deacr4]

Just wondering, is it possible for T levels to rise higher than what 50mg Bica can block or will the rise in estrogen always keep it under the limit? I hope I don't get super high levels and then worse hair loss

 

[keepcoolmybabies]

Just wondering, is it possible for T levels to rise higher than what 50mg Bica can block or will the rise in estrogen always keep it under the limit? I hope I don't get super high levels and then worse hair loss

The reason you have higher E on bica is because some of the excess of T is converted to E via aromatase. But unless you actually supplement E, it won't have antigonadotropin effects, wherein the E prevents T from being made in the first place, meaning the E isn't keeping "it under the limit" per say. Bica on it's own, however, should be able to sufficiently block T from binding to the receptors. The only real worry with bica is if doing it as a monotherapy since the excess of T can get converted to DHT, which has a much higher affinity for the receptors than either T (about 3x) or bica (about 10x). But considering you are using finasteride, it should prevent the T from converting to DHT so you shouldn't have to worry.

 

[baldingAF]

@keepcoolmybabies i think you’re right about the balance idea, in that trying to play with hormone levels your body will try and fight what you change in some way, but I don’t think those of us that go bald have much aromatase.

I really wish I started at this paper as I think it’s pretty extensive and accurate in a lot of ways. Like how animal models don’t work for humans and how men and women bald for different reasons.

I think we don’t have enough aromatase and more AR receptors so working that angle like so many have here is the goal. Stop DHT and increase is what grows hair and there are signals like sebum production which is pretty quick and addressed in this paper. The moment that goes way down I think a shift has been made from T to E in the scalp


https://zero.sci-hub.tw/4528/310c6be8f7e93580c00a5eb932f3192f/zouboulis2007.pdf

 

[Father_of_Shiseido]

Just wondering, is it possible for T levels to rise higher than what 50mg Bica can block or will the rise in estrogen always keep it under the limit? I hope I don't get super high levels and then worse hair loss

Bicalutamide if taken at 50 mg daily dose it will significantly feminise on you.

 

[keepcoolmybabies]

@keepcoolmybabies i think you’re right about the balance idea, in that trying to play with hormone levels your body will try and fight what you change in some way, but I don’t think those of us that go bald have much aromatase.

I really wish I started at this paper as I think it’s pretty extensive and accurate in a lot of ways. Like how animal models don’t work for humans and how men and women bald for different reasons.

I think we don’t have enough aromatase and more AR receptors so working that angle like so many have here is the goal. Stop DHT and increase is what grows hair and there are signals like sebum production which is pretty quick and addressed in this paper. The moment that goes way down I think a shift has been made from T to E in the scalp


https://zero.sci-hub.tw/4528/310c6be8f7e93580c00a5eb932f3192f/zouboulis2007.pdf

Yes, aromatase in scalp tissue of balding men isn't as prevalent as in women. Specifically women tend to have higher aromatase in the frontal region, which is why it in particular is often spared from recession and why women tend to have a different pattern than most men.

However, aromatase exists in many tissues/organs throughout the body such as the testes, adrenal glands, fat tissue, etc. So despite the likely absence of it in balding scalp, T can still get converted to E via other areas in the body which still increases circulating free E. Whether or not that has an affect on scalp hair follicles vs locally converted E in dermal papilla cells is a different matter though. But as that very paper you cited points out: "Estrogens appear to stimulate hair growth in man [9] . They are thought to prolong the anagen phase of scalp hair growth by increasing cell proliferation rates and postponing their transition to the telogen phase. In an organ culture system, estradiol stimulates hair shaft elongation in fronto-temporal male hair follicles"

 

[coco_304]

what is Climara Forte 7.8mg??
what is used for?

it can replace estradiol sublingual?

 

[baldingAF]

@keepcoolmybabies you totes right. Wasn't thinking systemically.

So you think if aromatase was corrected that would be enough to restore/bring conditions back into a place to foster some mf hair?

I should technically have a cascade effect cause you're reducing T and DHT by converting more T into aromatase, but the body will still fight it and possibly counter the drugs with an increase in something, maybe more androgen receptors or T or 5ar.

 

[baldingAF]

What chaps my *** is that skin is capable of producing its own hormones and microenvironment it seems, but even then it seems like the results only come from people who make systemic changes. Topical isn't enough. There's probably a network of give and take there where the overall serum of a hormone has some kind of messenger effect on what the skin should focus on producing. weakkkkk

 

[coco_304]

someone know where i can buy
Elleste Solo 2mg

??

 

[coco_304]

since august 2018

12.5 mg cpa
1.25 mg finasteride
minoxidil 5% topically + orally
50 mg dhea sublingually
100 mg progesterone sublingually
3 to 6 drops of estradiol-gel
vitamines, nems, .....

What brand of your progesterone that you can take it sublingual??

 

[Deacr4]

The reason you have higher E on bica is because some of the excess of T is converted to E via aromatase. But unless you actually supplement E, it won't have antigonadotropin effects, wherein the E prevents T from being made in the first place, meaning the E isn't keeping "it under the limit" per say. Bica on it's own, however, should be able to sufficiently block T from binding to the receptors. The only real worry with bica is if doing it as a monotherapy since the excess of T can get converted to DHT, which has a much higher affinity for the receptors than either T (about 3x) or bica (about 10x). But considering you are using finasteride, it should prevent the T from converting to DHT so you shouldn't have to worry.

Oh that's cool thanks, but then fina doesn't block 100% of DHT so I hope it'll be enough to block the increase!