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Exploring The Hormonal Route. Hair=life.

Discussion in 'Success Stories' started by bridgeburn, Oct 27, 2017.

  1. DHTcel

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    he could literally do goserelin + 12.5mg bicalutamide and that would be a more effective regimen then doing 7-8 drugs that counteract the effects of each other and are used at doses that will cause MAJOR hyperandrogenicity i.e. 20mg finasteride, I'm just trying to help you out, I don't want to see your health be at risk
     
  2. keepcoolmybabies

    keepcoolmybabies Established Member My Regimen

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    Do you ever get any blood tests to check your liver enzymes? Flutamide has been shown to produce hepatotoxicity on many studies. Also, considering you are already using bica I don't really understand the redundancy of using flutamide simultaneously.
     
  3. Obsessive

    Obsessive Established Member My Regimen

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    Paging Dr. Bridgeburn:
    7 months of consistent topical e2; 1-2 times a day. Still losing ground at temples, hairline, and top. I can confirm that I was using enough e2 on the scalp to keep my blood estrogen levels in the high range for all this time, which tells me that local saturation at follicles must have been achieved. Also, I tracked my free T and confirmed that the e2 treatment reduced it by 50-60% over these months. Can you think of any reason to continue topical e2 at this point?
     
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  4. LEXUS

    LEXUS Established Member My Regimen

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    I don't understand anything then. reduces ... increases ... there are many examples of who raised their hair on cyproterone. for example bridgeburn. why then everyone is so afraid of cyproterone. I heard that flutamide is generally poison to the liver. but no one has died yet. increases AR? but why then when I added spironolactone to cyproterone, my results immediately became better. the only thing I noticed if you increase the dose very much, then the opposite effect appears. I noticed this when I began taking 300 mg of ziproterone and 600 mg of spironolactone. Now I decided to change my mode. I have long studied how each medicine acts on the body. studied all the side effects. Avodart and flutamide are very harmful. I immediately feel it. Now I have changed my mode a bit. because as I said high doses do the opposite effect. even if you start taking a lot of estradiol there will be the opposite effect. the body simply does not take it then. so my mode is now like this.

    25 mg CPA
    300 mg spironolactone
    3 mg ESTRADIOL
    10 mg FINASTERIDE
    1 dose ESTROGEL
    1 dose MIN on HAIR


    THIS IS PERSONALLY MY OBSERVATIONS

    I find spironolactone effective if added to cyproterone. Spironolactone turns off stress hormones and other androgens that cyproterone does not touch. while finasteride turns off only type 2 alpha reductase anyway, it works better for me than avodart.

    I think any drug with an increase in dose gives the opposite effect. even estradiol.
     
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  5. I'mme

    I'mme Experienced Member My Regimen

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    Dude, I'm still waiting for your before and after pics
     
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  6. I'mme

    I'mme Experienced Member My Regimen

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  7. DHTcel

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  8. Obsessive

    Obsessive Established Member My Regimen

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    Interesting that blocking AR receptors in muscles doesn't lead to muscle loss. I guess I need to research this more to understand. No matter how much T is present, I don't understand how muscle mass won't be affected if T cannot bind.
     
  9. DHTcel

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    different parts of the body have different circulating concentrations of testosterone so bicalutamide cannot effect all parts of the body the same

    for the testicles for example: "Bicalutamide monotherapy seems to have minimal effect on testicular spermatogenesis, testicular ultrastructure, and certain aspects of male fertility.[191][192][82][191]This seems to be because testosterone levels in the testes (where ≈95% of testosterone in males is produced) are extremely high (up to 200-fold higher than circulating levels) and only a small fraction (less than 10%) of the normal levels of testosterone in the testes are actually necessary to maintain spermatogenesis.[193][194][194][195]As a result, bicalutamide appears to not be able to compete with testosterone in this sole part of the body to an extent sufficient to considerably interfere with androgen signaling and function."

    this is the same case with muscle cells
     
  10. Obsessive

    Obsessive Established Member My Regimen

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    What about scalp follicles? We know it is useful for body hair but is there evidence that bica is active in scalp tissue? If all this turns out to be accurate, this will be huge. Do we know of more than one or two success stories with bica? Ein is one I'm aware of. Is Mauve still around?
     
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  11. I'mme

    I'mme Experienced Member My Regimen

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    It is also important to note that this is all with 150mg, whereas only 50mg or at max 100mg would do for hair loss.

    Moreover, most of these studies must have been done on relatively older people.

    Now, even if it does result in muscle loss, I'd simply take mk677.
     
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  12. I'mme

    I'mme Experienced Member My Regimen

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    Nah. I texted him on reddit, no reply as of yet.
     
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  13. Obsessive

    Obsessive Established Member My Regimen

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    DHTcell: I guess you're the test dummy for bica at the moment. Has anything changed since adding it (shedding, side effect, etc.)? I, and others, are following your progress so let us all know what's happening.
     
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  14. DHTcel

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    I know some people have lots of sebum, some have burning hair, some have pain when they touch their hair.

    about 10-11 days into bicalutamide the pain in my hair reduced by 30-40ish%, when I used to touch my hair the whole scalp would hurt. (note I have insanely aggressive hair loss genes, my sister and mother have thinning hair and my dad is bald) I've been on 50mg for 12 days and 100mg for past 2 days (I'm sticking to 100mg for the course of this year)

    Bicalutamide has very weak binding capacity (that doesn't mean other anti-androgens are any better, they're worse) when we compare it to androgens. It works because it builds up a very very high stable serum concentrations compared to androgen molecules owing to its incredibly high elimination life (7 days). The high concentrations overload on the receptors and it binds irrespective of the presence of androgens. But that doesn't happen in testes, because the concentrations of androgens is very high in that area.It's more like simple kinetics:
    Rate of reaction(r) = Rate constant(k) * A power of Concentration of reactants(c)

    Now, in hair follicles, the value of (k) for androgens is very high, but bicalutamide overpowers it by building up a very high value of (c) to compensate for its low value of (k) and it wins. But in testes, androgens have both a very high value for (k) and for (c). No matter how high (c) gets for bicalutamide on regular/recommended dosage, it never wins there.

    Also, once the bond is formed, androgen molecules cannot replace bicalutamide or vice-versa.
     
  15. DHTcel

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    you see the body has androgens (t and dht) and androgen receptors throughout all your body. when t and dht bind to the AR they allow it to translocate to the nucleus where it then transcribes androgen responsive genes through a coactivator expression. this is important because the nucleus holds the genes for the androgen X chromosome where baldness, acne, prostate cancer, and body hair etc lie.

    bicalutamide at sufficient concentrations (1000 fold excess) prevents complete activation of the AR from androgens T and DHT. Bicalutamide is marketed as a non-steroidal anti androgen, its mechanism of action is that it functions as an androgen receptor antagonist by preventing the androgen receptor from being activated by in the first place which disinhibits the transolaction of the AR to the nucleus. Overtime this process demonstrates that bicalutamide stimulates the assembly of a transcriptionally inactive AR on DNA and support altered coactivator to now corepressor expression.

    We know this to be the case because bicalutamide can't stimulate interactions between the AR N and C termini or recruitment of steroid receptor coactivator proteins (SRC-1 or -2), although SRC transfection augmented AR activity in the presence of dihydrotestosterone and testosterone. (this means T and DHT stimulate coactivator proteins which means that it makes the AR transcribe genes aka making u bald)

    Without coactivator expression present in the nucleus, genes in the androgen X chromosome (baldness,acne,hirsutism) cannot be transcribed and therefore as long as the proper dosing of bicalutamide is used, it can serve a huge benefit to treating aggressive male pattern baldness.

    check out my thread on proper dosing of Bicalutamide: https://www.hairlosstalk.com/interact/threads/how-much-t-dht-does-bicalutamide-block.123281/

    @Guido
     
    #5195 DHTcel, Jun 19, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2019
  16. Itsnoahkennedy

    Itsnoahkennedy Experienced Member My Regimen

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    lol i am nervous about blood clotting and sudden death, but ive been on 1/4 50mg cyproterone and 1mg E x2 daily. but i have 4 months worth of bicalutamide on the way. im going to the endocrinologist to make sure im not at risk of dying, probably next week.
     
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  17. keepcoolmybabies

    keepcoolmybabies Established Member My Regimen

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    I definitely agree it is a good idea to see an endo to track health while taking these meds. But in the meantime I wouldn't worry to much on the dosages your on. How are you taking E? If it's pills then sublingual/buccal I hope? As long as you aren't swallowing the pills (wherein it has firstpass through the liver), the risk of blood clots seems minimal. Much of the still used data about clotting is from conjugated equine estrogens (derived from pregnant horse urine), which have since fallen out of favor with doctors. More recent and popular alternatives like estradiol valerate lack the data to indicate they carry the same clotting risks. Nevertheless, it's still a good idea to see a doctor for the occasional blood test.
     
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  18. Itsnoahkennedy

    Itsnoahkennedy Experienced Member My Regimen

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    Im using Estrogel rubbing it on inner thighs
     
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  19. keepcoolmybabies

    keepcoolmybabies Established Member My Regimen

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    That's actually the safest way. Again, the clotting risk is higher from oral administration. “By processing estrogen, the liver increases production of blood-clotting factors.” https://www.bmj.com/content/364/bmj.k4810
     
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  20. Ikarus

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    You will be fine; incidences of blood clots generally happen with oral use, although it is generally seen within older women.
     
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