EVERYONE Will Get Finasteride Side-Effects Eventually

Micky_007

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I see. I did not want to suggest that the nature of all side effects are in people's head, but it could be definitely playing a role. Giving a choice between "hair or dick" scaring people away leading them to have your (not referring to you, but generalised) own current position of not taking finasteride is unhelpful, unethical and counterproductive as you do not know if there will be symptomatic side effects and the degree of them, also ignoring that they can be mediated with other drugs and that allowing baldness to go freely could be devasting for some individuals like me - looking terrible, no confidence, no relationship, loniness, house Bonded, yada yada...

I do understand the intention is to warn people but for sure it is not the correct approach.

Lastly a combination of minoxidil and Miceoneedlimg might offer a more noticeable temporary regrowth but these drugs cannot interviene the mechanism of action of baldness the same way Finasteride can. The result will also be you bald...

I don't see it as trying to scare people away, but rather educating people holistically about the bad as well. People have been brainwashed with only positive information for too long. The term "fear mongerging" and trying to scare people away is only used on online forums as you would never see any respectable doctor not mention the potential side effects.

Yes while it may not occur in every person, for those who will be effected, this information could save peoples life.

Infact it is medically professionally speaking, it is the duty to say the potential side effects.

Yes while Minoxidil is not a true solution, neither is inhibiting DHT. If it was, as I mentioned, the majority of the male population would have good heads of hair, which obviously isn't anywhere near the case.
 

Manochoice

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It is of absolute importance to have in-depth conversations on this subject and have testimonials from both (or all) sides and then have each decide what they want to do. Based on countless threads and conversations and opinions expressed on this forum, paired with external articles and opinions I myself have reached the conclusion that finasteride is a very effective drug that when used in conjunction with other drugs, supplements, shampoos etc. can yield some very impressive cosmetic results. I have no doubt on that. I think most of the people will at least temporarily tolerate the drug well, with no or tolerable sides. At the same time I think there's a so called minority of people that will gets sides, some of whom will experience some very potent and potentially scary sides. Based on that I have concluded that for me personally it's not worth the risk - no matter how minimal that is - to my health, to my sexuality, to my personality to my anything. It is highly foolish to believe and float the idea that it is only a small, poor pill that should be taken as a sugar pill. It obviously does what nothing really did for millenias before. That being said, I appreciate both opinions coming from people who are successful in addressing their hair loss with no sided as well as from those who tried it, got sides and they let other know. It's not about scaring ppl off but about bringing awareness.
 

user394587

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It is of absolute importance to have in-depth conversations on this subject and have testimonials from both (or all) sides and then have each decide what they want to do. Based on countless threads and conversations and opinions expressed on this forum, paired with external articles and opinions I myself have reached the conclusion that finasteride is a very effective drug that when used in conjunction with other drugs, supplements, shampoos etc. can yield some very impressive cosmetic results. I have no doubt on that. I think most of the people will at least temporarily tolerate the drug well, with no or tolerable sides. At the same time I think there's a so called minority of people that will gets sides, some of whom will experience some very potent and potentially scary sides. Based on that I have concluded that for me personally it's not worth the risk - no matter how minimal that is - to my health, to my sexuality, to my personality to my anything. It is highly foolish to believe and float the idea that it is only a small, poor pill that should be taken as a sugar pill. It obviously does what nothing really did for millenias before. That being said, I appreciate both opinions coming from people who are successful in addressing their hair loss with no sided as well as from those who tried it, got sides and they let other know. It's not about scaring ppl off but about bringing awareness.
Bringing awareness is important, the problem is when the information being shared is misinterpreted.

Some information, like the potential risk for an increased likelihood of diabetes, is backed by research that has a statistically relevant sample size and decent study design. Other information that is tossed around is supported by studies that are, for a long list of reasons, extremely limited. Despite that, this information is spread around by individuals with no background in medicine or statistics who imply that the outcomes presented in said "studies" are nearly unavoidable. This obviously isn't the case.

Like you said, finasteride is not a sugar pill. On the same hand, it is not the equivalent of chemical castration. The reality is somewhere in the middle. What the evidence is clear on is that finasteride is a detriment to your physical health. How much of a detriment it is will largely come down to genetics and lifestyle. People have to weigh the information available and make a choice as to whether or not their hair is worth the pharmaceutical burden. The issue is that for individuals outside of medicine or statistics, this information is easily misinterpreted, and can result in erroneous conclusions being made. This is what doctors are supposed to exist for. Unfortunately, most MDs are clueless about endocrinology. This is why I think anyone considering finasteride should get comprehensive bloodwork done first and speak to an endocrinologist about their results, which should provide a clearer picture of the patient specific risks.
 

Micky_007

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Bringing awareness is important, the problem is when the information being shared is misinterpreted.

Some information, like the potential risk for an increased likelihood of diabetes, is backed by research that has a statistically relevant sample size and decent study design. Other information that is tossed around is supported by studies that are, for a long list of reasons, extremely limited. Despite that, this information is spread around by individuals with no background in medicine or statistics who imply that the outcomes presented in said "studies" are nearly unavoidable. This obviously isn't the case.

Like you said, finasteride is not a sugar pill. On the same hand, it is not the equivalent of chemical castration. The reality is somewhere in the middle. What the evidence is clear on is that finasteride is a detriment to your physical health. How much of a detriment it is will largely come down to genetics and lifestyle. People have to weigh the information available and make a choice as to whether or not their hair is worth the pharmaceutical burden. The issue is that for individuals outside of medicine or statistics, this information is easily misinterpreted, and can result in erroneous conclusions being made. This is what doctors are supposed to exist for. Unfortunately, most MDs are clueless about endocrinology. This is why I think anyone considering finasteride should get comprehensive bloodwork done first and speak to an endocrinologist about their results, which should provide a clearer picture of the patient specific risks.

There are many studies done proving that Finasteride is harmful in many other ways besides an increase in likelihood of diabetes. You've made assumptions of the intellectual capabilities of the people who have experienced side effects that they aren't capable of seeing through fact or fiction, which is false. So you really believe from the millions of people who have used Finasteride and had side effects that none of those people can understand medical and statistic information?

There are many people who not only are in the field or medicine or that studied stats, but many who have done studies in courses, degrees, etc or just being well read that helped them understand such information. People are not limited to their qualifications. Just like how very few doctors actually don't know about a lot of things, even though they are medical professionals. Education is not a true measure of intelligence.

There's many intelligent and well educated people in this very thread talking about how bad the side effects are of Finasteride and have presented many studies, and some were not even added as yet.

Furthermore, lack of studies/high cost studies does not necessarily mean lack of truth. Not everyone has the funding for high cost studies. But the fact that many many people have reported side effects from Finasteride, in addition to many proper studies and even verified Medical Doctors on Twitter confessing and discussing with other verified doctors on Twitter about how often their patients who use Finasteride experience side effects are very telling, there's a lot more that Big Pharma would like to be kept a secret.

But yes i agree with you, most MD's are clueless about endocrinology, hair and hairloss, including alternative treatments. Many MD's don't even know the full extent of the possible side effects of certain treatment.
 
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user394587

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There are many studies done proving that Finasteride is harmful in many other ways besides an increase in likelihood of diabetes. You've made assumptions of the intellectual capabilities of the people who have experienced side effects that they aren't capable of seeing through fact or fiction, which is false. So you really believe from the millions of people who have used Finasteride and had side effects that none of those people can understand medical and statistic information?

There are many people who not only are in the field or medicine or that studied stats, but many who have done studies in courses, degrees, etc or just being well read that helped them understand such information. People are not limited to their qualifications. Just like how very few doctors actually know about a lot of things, even though they are medical professionals. Education is not a true measure of intelligence.

There's many intelligent and well educated people in this very thread talking about how bad the side effects are of Finasteride and have presented many studies, and some were not even added as yet.

Furthermore, lack of studies/high cost studies does not necessarily mean lack of truth. Not everyone has the funding for high cost studies. But the fact that many many people have reported side effects from Finasteride, in addition to many proper studies and even verified Medical Doctors on Twitter confessing and discussing with other verified doctors on Twitter about how often their patients who use Finasteride experience side effects are very telling, there's a lot more that Big Pharma would like to be kept a secret.

But yes i agree with you, most MD's are clueless about endocrinology, hair and hairloss, including alternative treatments.
Well you're quite adept at shoving words into my mouth.

First, I never implied that diabetes was the only harmful potential side effect of finasteride. I used it as an example, hence me saying "some information".

Second, I never implied that all of the people making claims about the side effects of finasteride were unintelligent. Clearly that's not the case.

Third, low quality studies do not rule out finasteride as a potential association for certain side effects, however, they don't prove anything either. My point was that people use these studies as direct evidence for a causal link, which is an erroneous interpretation of the information.

Foruth, I'm not implying that people outside of medicine or statistics are incapable of understanding scientific articles around pharmaceuticals, simply that they are less likely to be able to. Obviously there's people outside of those fields who can interpret statistics.

You reference "many studies". My point wasn't that all of these studies are not statistically meaningful, only that some of them are. It's fine to present information that doesn't have as much statistical relevance as other information, as long as it is made clear that this is the case. In a lot of instances I've seen where such information has been presented, that hasn't been done.
 
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Manochoice

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"funny" things is we know more about Cosmos than endocrinology.

One other critical aspect of it when it comes to hair loss and what men are willing to undergo, is the age at which it happens. In my case, having good hair all through my 20s and then a manageable (yet aware of) hair situation through my 30s, simplified things and gave me the time and opportunity to take step back and think about it. Had it been occuring in my early 20s, I would have probably been more desperate, more risk taking and value hair more than other things. I feel like the world of hair loss is unfairly treating everyone in a cookie cutter sort of way and not taking into account the age at which it occurs. That makes such a huge difference and requires a different way to deal with it.
 

Micky_007

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Well you're quite adept at shoving words into my mouth.

First, I never implied that diabetes was the only harmful potential side effect of finasteride. I used it as an example, hence me saying "some information".

Second, I never implied that all of the people making claims about the side effects of finasteride were unintelligent. Clearly that's not the case.

Third, low quality studies do not rule out finasteride as a potential association for certain side effects, however, they don't prove anything either. My point was that people use these studies as direct evidence for a causal link, which is an erroneous interpretation of the information.

Foruth, I'm not implying that people outside of medicine or statistics are incapable of understanding scientific articles around pharmaceuticals, simply that they are less likely to be able to. Obviously there's people outside of those fields who can interpret statistics.

You reference "many studies". My point wasn't that all of these studies are not statistically meaningful, only that some of them are. It's fine to present information that doesn't have as much statistical relevance as other information, as long as it is made clear that this is the case. In a lot of instances I've seen where such information has been presented, that hasn't been done.

Glad you cleared that up.
 

Micky_007

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"funny" things is we know more about Cosmos than endocrinology.

One other critical aspect of it when it comes to hair loss and what men are willing to undergo, is the age at which it happens. In my case, having good hair all through my 20s and then a manageable (yet aware of) hair situation through my 30s, simplified things and gave me the time and opportunity to take step back and think about it. Had it been occuring in my early 20s, I would have probably been more desperate, more risk taking and value hair more than other things. I feel like the world of hair loss is unfairly treating everyone in a cookie cutter sort of way and not taking into account the age at which it occurs. That makes such a huge difference and requires a different way to deal with it.

I believe Kintor Pharmaceuticals will be the first to make significant changes in system. We're already seeing it with the speed at which Pyrilutamide is flying through the clinical trials at unprecedented speeds.

I'm definitely not Chinese but I do respect the way China does certain things. Their very serious work ethic and ability to not be influenced by external standards and corruption is definitely one of a kind and I believe it will be the reason we get better treatment than we currently have first coming out from Kintor.

Pyrilutamide and GT20029 are the ones im really interested in from Kintor Pharmaceuticals. Pyrilutamide is already is soon to be in Phase 3 in China and GT20029 has already started a Phase 1.

If all goes well we should be Pyrilutamide around 2023 or at best around late 2022.

What I find interesting is that they claim to not have the side effects of Propecia as they are using another method to deal with DHT that doesn't prevent DHT production but rather deal with the AR sensitivity to DHT by creating an AR Receptor Antagonist with Pyrilutamide and an AR degrador with GT20029.

Since DHT is important and we've seen inhibiting the production of DHT causes a ripple effect of health problems, I find the alternative solutions by Kintor and Pyrilutamide very interesting.
 
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Micky_007

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I believe the prolactin approach is very interesting and promising. SMI could be a real game changer, let's see how the group trial goes...

I do also find this interesting. Are there no companies actually trying the prolactin approach in the pipeline?
 

Pigeon

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I do also find this interesting. Are there no companies actually trying the prolactin approach in the pipeline?
Yes, check this thread:


And this one:


There's also a discord with a lot of information about prolactin and its effects on hairloss.
 
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Micky_007

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Pigeon

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Can we join the Discord? Would be easier to see relevant information there
I think it's closed now, if they intend to do a new groupsbuy I'm sure they'll open it up again. Really a lot of good information there but you'll find a lot of it in the threads. Very promising imo.
 

blue16

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My guess is that the finasteride is GENERALLY safe for the majority of people, but I'll pass for now. For me, there are way too many unknowns, and possible subtle side effects in taking an oral medication that changes your levels of hormones.

Aside from the obvious ED stuff, I've heard a lot of anecdotal reports of fatigue. I also read a study that showed finasteride users were more likely to experience sleep disturbances compared to placebo. Plus the potential cognitive issues.

And my concern is that although these side effects might not be severe, they could be subtle enough to brush off but actually have a noticeable impact on your day. There are too just too many potential subtle side effects that might have an impact on various aspects on one's life. I'd rather not worry about these issues and go another route.

For those that truly don't have any side effects, or are willing to take the risk of unknown side effects, then I wish them nothing but the best of luck.
 

user394587

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My guess is that the finasteride is GENERALLY safe for the majority of people, but I'll pass for now. For me, there are way too many unknowns, and possible subtle side effects in taking an oral medication that changes your levels of hormones.

Aside from the obvious ED stuff, I've heard a lot of anecdotal reports of fatigue. I also read a study that showed finasteride users were more likely to experience sleep disturbances compared to placebo. Plus the potential cognitive issues.

And my concern is that although these side effects might not be severe, they could be subtle enough to brush off but actually have a noticeable impact on your day. There are too just too many potential subtle side effects that might have an impact on various aspects on one's life. I'd rather not worry about these issues and go another route.

For those that truly don't have any side effects, or are willing to take the risk of unknown side effects, then I wish them nothing but the best of luck.
Just playing devil's advocate here, but a lot of people initially think like you do until their hair loss progresses to a certain point, and then they take it out of desperation.
 

Manochoice

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Just playing devil's advocate here, but a lot of people initially think like you do until their hair loss progresses to a certain point, and then they take it out of desperation.
"A lot of people" is such an ambiguous statement and hard to quantify and it became such a deceiving statement due to being the preferred way of former president to bs. But yes, a lot will and a lot won't. Best is to be informed and to take a well contemplated decision than just a rush of the moment.
 

user394587

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"A lot of people" is such an ambiguous statement and hard to quantify and it became such a deceiving statement due to being the preferred way of former president to bs. But yes, a lot will and a lot won't. Best is to be informed and to take a well contemplated decision than just a rush of the moment.
Well my intent certainly wasn't to be "deceiving", I've just seen a lot-...

I've just seen people do this, and the most common thing I hear from them is "I wish I had taken this when I had more hair to save". Of course, you also get people who say taking it was the worst decision they made, and that it ruined their life, which is why I agree that being informed is the most important aspect about decisions such as this. I think everyone can agree with that.
 

blue16

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Just playing devil's advocate here, but a lot of people initially think like you do until their hair loss progresses to a certain point, and then they take it out of desperation.

Agreed. My hairloss isn't horrible (yet) and Rogaine has been able to sustain it so far. But I could definitely imagine a situation where if it is literally a choice between finasteride or not having hair, I might fall in the same category.
 
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