EVERYONE Will Get Finasteride Side-Effects Eventually

[hemingway_the_mercenary]

I know this is against the general opinion but hear me out

(This is about sexual side effects)

You were exposed to your natural DHT levels for all your post puberty life. Depending on when you started finasteride you may have had more or less time reaping the benefits of DHT to your sexual organs. For those that are not aware DHT strengthens the smooth muscle in the penis and the muscles surrounding the penis (the Kegel muscles) AND also is very responsible for libido being that it is a much stronger androgen than finasteride.

Initially inhibiting DHT will not have much noticeable effect for most people as the penis tissues are already quite strong and are able to deliver sufficient bloodlfow. However, over time, it could be one or two or even 10 years depending on the person, the tissue that you built with DHT will begin to atrophy and get weaker and T alone will not be enough to sustain it. This is typically a very slow process and hence hard to notice. This is when the sexual sides will be less noticeable

Usually by this time you will have aged 5 or so years, if you started in your late 20s or early 30s, and you might think that this drop in erectile quality is normal. This can carry on for a few more years while you use Cialis or other remedies to "hold you over" but eventually they won't be enough.

Your Penis NEEDS DHT to function at 100%! There is no way around this. Anyone denying this is denying that androgens increase sex drive and sexual function. This is the equivalent of saying that some 60 year old man will not get a boost in erectile quality if they go on TRT w/ Proviron ed.


Here's an analogy to help you understand. You're on the highway and going 160, the speed limit is 100. You have more speed than you need. THEN you lift your foot of the gas by 60% and the car starts slowing down BUT as long as you're over a 100 it's not a problem and you won't really notice the negative effects. Once you go under a 100 that's when you will realize that it's problematic to inhibit over 60% of your bodies strongest androgen.

As for the studies which show that only 5% of people get side effects this is why that's not accurate. This is self reported sides and no man actually wants to believe that they have erectile dysfunction and after a couple of years on the drug with normal erectile function most men will not notice or attribute to finasteride the increased time it takes to achieve and erection or the decreased maximal maintainable erection strength.

If the studies were done by scientifically observing 1) The time it takes to achieve maximal erection with a normal stimuli, 2) The strength of the maximal level of maintainable erection during intercourse, and 3) How long the male is able to hold an erection without physical stimuli THEN they'd have to report that 80-90% of men have side effects especially after 5 years on the drug


Also, the bigger your penis the more likely you will be of experiencing serious ED issues down the line with finasterde as it has a much heavier demand of blodflow and thus an overall healthier penis. Someone who is 5 inches long needs much less blood flow to achieve a maximal erection than someone who is 7 inches long ( the blood flow needed per length of the penis is not a linear line but an exponential curve).

Anyone thinking you can have the same erectile function on finasteride as they did before it is a fool! The gap of 5 or so years makes worse erectile function harder to notice and/or attribute to finasteride but there is just no way around this fact: DHT is our most powerful androgen and it is 100% necessary for optimal penile function

 

[-G-]

But what would you suggest people who are currently on finasteride?

I do think in the next 2-3 years something new can come out. Not a cure by any stretch of the imagination just something new. New could mean something as simple as Triple Hair which "plans" to launch this Q and the other company with the min inhancing shampoo that is supposed to hit the markets in this Q as well.

It is small but positive steps?

I am on the fence and plan to hop off within 3-4 years. One year in so far.

 

[hemingway_the_mercenary]

But what would you suggest people who are currently on finasteride?

I do think in the next 2-3 years something new can come out. Not a cure by any stretch of the imagination just something new. New could mean something as simple as Triple Hair which "plans" to launch this Q and the other company with the min inhancing shampoo that is supposed to hit the markets in this Q as well.

It is small but positive steps?

I am on the fence and plan to hop off within 3-4 years. One year in so far.

I don't think people truly understand how difficult a new treatment is. Topical absorption is not high enough to allow for topical AR blockers to be used to block sufficient AR in the scalp to stop miniaturization and targeting hairless downstream has potentially hundreds to thousands of pathways that would need to be manipulated etc.

So I don't think anything that works is going to come out for the next 12 years minus CB which has already been shown to be much less effective than finasteride again due to the poor topical absorption.

My best advice would be at least switch to a low dose of topical finasteride, the lowest you find effective for you, and try to minimize systemic absorption so that you can increase the duration of time you will be able to use finasteride without a unmanageable side effect burder.

I'm going to try a derma needling protocol with applying AR blockers immediately after in hopes of reaching sufficient levels at the follies to reverse miniaturization. I'll keep you updated, especially if it works

 

[-G-]

I don't think people truly understand how difficult a new treatment is. Topical absorption is not high enough to allow for topical AR blockers to be used to block sufficient AR in the scalp to stop miniaturization and targeting hairless downstream has potentially hundreds to thousands of pathways that would need to be manipulated etc.

So I don't think anything that works is going to come out for the next 12 years minus CB which has already been shown to be much less effective than finasteride again due to the poor topical absorption.

My best advice would be at least switch to a low dose of topical finasteride, the lowest you find effective for you, and try to minimize systemic absorption so that you can increase the duration of time you will be able to use finasteride without a unmanageable side effect burder.

I'm going to try a derma needling protocol with applying AR blockers immediately after in hopes of reaching sufficient levels at the follies to reverse miniaturization. I'll keep you updated, especially if it works

I will look into topical finasteride in a few months and see where I can get it.

 

[hemingway_the_mercenary]

The opposite is true. As men age their erectile function declines, and they blame it on finasteride because no man wants to believe he's just getting older and less virile.

The main reason for erectile decline is a decrease in overall androgens in the body and an increase in estrogens... all things that finasteride does to a much larger degree than getting older will. Someone who is fit and 50 years old not on finasteride will have better erectile function than someone who is 35 and been on finasteride for 10 years

 

[-G-]

Also, why do we have so much contradicting information? I would think it would be more consistent?

 

[NickyA]

The opposite is true. As men age their erectile function declines, and they blame it on finasteride because no man wants to believe he's just getting older and less virile.

Also erectile function tends to decline as you age, ironically following a similar pattern to alopecia:

-20% of men will experience ED a couple of times in their 20s
-30% of men will experience ED a couple of times in their 30s
-40% of men will experience ED a couple of times in their 40s
-50% of men will experience ED a couple of times in their 50s
-60% of men will experience ED a couple of times in their 60s

The actual percentage of men who suffer permanent ED or persistent ED most of the time is much lower for each age percentile. Men should grow up and realise that their libido isn't stable and may vary sometimes, just like women's. Real life isn't a p**rn flick.

 

[hemingway_the_mercenary]

Also erectile function tends to decline as you age, ironically following a similar pattern to alopecia:

-20% of men will experience ED a couple of times in their 20s
-30% of men will experience ED a couple of times in their 30s
-40% of men will experience ED a couple of times in their 40s
-50% of men will experience ED a couple of times in their 50s
-60% of men will experience ED a couple of times in their 60s

The actual percentage of men who suffer permanent ED or persistent ED most of the time is much lower for each age percentile. Men should grow up and realise that their libido isn't stable and may vary sometimes, just like women's. Real life isn't a p**rn flick.

This has nothing to do with my post and I’m not sure where you’re pulling these numbers from but it doesn’t really matter

bottom line, erectile function decreases with age due to a decrease in the bodies androgens and typically as men get fatter with age also an increase in amortization. Progression of heart disease has a minor effect as well

Inhibiting over 60% of your bodies main androgen will have side effects for almost all men in the long run

 

[Xenophon]

I know this is against the general opinion but hear me out

(This is about sexual side effects)

You were exposed to your natural DHT levels for all your post puberty life. Depending on when you started finasteride you may have had more or less time reaping the benefits of DHT to your sexual organs. For those that are not aware DHT strengthens the smooth muscle in the penis and the muscles surrounding the penis (the Kegel muscles) AND also is very responsible for libido being that it is a much stronger androgen than finasteride.

Initially inhibiting DHT will not have much noticeable effect for most people as the penis tissues are already quite strong and are able to deliver sufficient bloodlfow. However, over time, it could be one or two or even 10 years depending on the person, the tissue that you built with DHT will begin to atrophy and get weaker and T alone will not be enough to sustain it. This is typically a very slow process and hence hard to notice. This is when the sexual sides will be less noticeable

Usually by this time you will have aged 5 or so years, if you started in your late 20s or early 30s, and you might think that this drop in erectile quality is normal. This can carry on for a few more years while you use Cialis or other remedies to "hold you over" but eventually they won't be enough.

Your Penis NEEDS DHT to function at 100%! There is no way around this. Anyone denying this is denying that androgens increase sex drive and sexual function. This is the equivalent of saying that some 60 year old man will not get a boost in erectile quality if they go on TRT w/ Proviron ed.


Here's an analogy to help you understand. You're on the highway and going 160, the speed limit is 100. You have more speed than you need. THEN you lift your foot of the gas by 60% and the car starts slowing down BUT as long as you're over a 100 it's not a problem and you won't really notice the negative effects. Once you go under a 100 that's when you will realize that it's problematic to inhibit over 60% of your bodies strongest androgen.

As for the studies which show that only 5% of people get side effects this is why that's not accurate. This is self reported sides and no man actually wants to believe that they have erectile dysfunction and after a couple of years on the drug with normal erectile function most men will not notice or attribute to finasteride the increased time it takes to achieve and erection or the decreased maximal maintainable erection strength.

If the studies were done by scientifically observing 1) The time it takes to achieve maximal erection with a normal stimuli, 2) The strength of the maximal level of maintainable erection during intercourse, and 3) How long the male is able to hold an erection without physical stimuli THEN they'd have to report that 80-90% of men have side effects especially after 5 years on the drug


Also, the bigger your penis the more likely you will be of experiencing serious ED issues down the line with finasterde as it has a much heavier demand of blodflow and thus an overall healthier penis. Someone who is 5 inches long needs much less blood flow to achieve a maximal erection than someone who is 7 inches long ( the blood flow needed per length of the penis is not a linear line but an exponential curve).

Anyone thinking you can have the same erectile function on finasteride as they did before it is a fool! The gap of 5 or so years makes worse erectile function harder to notice and/or attribute to finasteride but there is just no way around this fact: DHT is our most powerful androgen and it is 100% necessary for optimal penile function

finasteride is poison, AIDS and cancer rolled into one, plus it's racist (that's bad). The point being, this is probably heinous stuff. Pretty much just take anything the system offers/says/believes, and go the opposite way. This is a heuristic that will never steer you wrong. The system plays the 'infinite skeptical regression' game with this 'no evidence' bit. There's 'no evidence' that finasteride destroys your manhood at the spiritual level, just like there's 'no evidence' that Roundup causes cancer, just like there's 'no evidence' that the election was stolen. Anything that contradicts the mainstream: 'no evidence.' Fine. Then we needn't bother throwing 'peer reviewed papers' at each other.

There is no such thing as science. The only advances have come in engineering and anesthetics. This is why surgery is extremely effective now. But we know absolutely d*** about the body, about hormones, about what hair even is, or what anything is for, teleologically speaking. But we have great surgical techniques. Anyone can scrounge 5-15k for 1 or more surgeries. It's not that hard. After that, there are many ways to go about maintenance.

 

[Selb]

...just like there's 'no evidence' that the election was stolen.

...
There is no such thing as science.

Oh no it’s retarded

 

[Charger]

Whether or not side effects are inevitable (which I agree with to an extent), I think inhibiting 5AR for hair is an archaic/outdated approach. 5AR is simply responsible for too much beyond hair for any sensible person to feel comfortable inhibiting it's function.

At least for as long as I'm not on exogenous testosterone (which doesn't guarantee no side effects), I'm not interested in using any treatments that affect androgen production, it's strictly PGD2/PGE/WNT angle options for me from now on. I think that is where the potential for more tolerable treatments lie unless someone invents a topical that truly stays local to the scalp somehow.

I'd rather be bald and firing on all cylinders mentally, physically, and sexually than keep my hair and be a depressed eunuch with no drive.

 

[whatintheworld]

Funny how the people who always say I'd rather be bald, well, aren't bald at all.

Easy to say you would rather be bald when all you have is a whispy horshoe around your head.

I'll keep taking my chances with finasteride, I don't know if side effects are guaranteed eventually, but I know the side effects of baldness which would be 100% guaranteed: depression, self loathing, anxiety. No thanks.

 

[Charger]

Funny how the people who always say I'd rather be bald, well, aren't bald at all.

Easy to say you would rather be bald when all you have is a whispy horshoe around your head.

I'll keep taking my chances with finasteride, I don't know if side effects are guaranteed eventually, but I know the side effects of baldness which would be 100% guaranteed: depression, self loathing, anxiety. No thanks.

It's a catch-22. Most of us are here because we would prefer to have hair. However, if side effects are interfering with your ability to function in your job and make a living, for example, are you really going to prioritize your hair over making a living? I can understand being anxious and depressed over hair loss while you're in your teens or early 20s, if you're over 30 and self-destructing over hair loss, you need to grow up and get your priorities straight.

 

[whatintheworld]

It's a catch-22. Most of us are here because we would prefer to have hair. However, if side effects are interfering with your ability to function in your job and make a living, for example, are you really going to prioritize your hair over making a living? I can understand being anxious and depressed over hair loss while you're in your teens or early 20s, if you're over 30 and self-destructing over hair loss, you need to grow up and get your priorities straight.

Being Norwood 7 would interfere with my ability to function and make a living. I would likely progress to Norwood 7 if it wasn't for finasteride, so for me it is a godsend.

If I was Norwood 3 or 4 I probably wouldn't give a sh*t, some hair loss is normal in men.

 

[hemingway_the_mercenary]

Completely agree OP.

It's only a matter of time before you get and notice side effects. DHT is imperative and crucial for many functions in the body, I know balding guys here want to ignore that simple biological fact and try to cope any way they can by lying to themselves that blocking a hormone for years will only have "minor" side effects.

Most will have to learn the hard way sadly.

Too many idiots like Kevin on YouTube have spread the myth that DHT is only needed before puberty and is a shitty useless hormone after it. Unfortunately, that’s far from true

 

[Tom4362]

The thing is that you have no evidence for this claim, since the long term finasteride trials do not show this

 

[Charger]

Too many idiots like Kevin on YouTube have spread the myth that DHT is only needed before puberty and is a shitty useless hormone after it. Unfortunately, that’s far from true

Every YouTube 'Guru' that pushes finasteride is sketchy in some way/has some variable at play that doesn't apply to normies & natties.

Derek is on exogenous hormones.
Kevin is clearly on some sort of dopaminergic or drug... no one acts like that. Plus there's evidence he had sides from the drug in the past yet claims PFS is bullshit. Also, I love his denial of side effects while at the same time suggesting a lower dose for when these non-existent side effects do occur.. which is it?
Leo and Longevity, the newcomer on the block, has said he had finasteride sides when he first used it, and basically uses SSRIs to offset the mental effects of the drug.

 

[inmyhead]

I wish people spent time trying to figure out hairloss instead of writing random posts with their opinion about finasteride.

 

[whatevr]

@Pigeon , congratulations. You've collected quite a bibliography of studies there.

I took Finasteride for 1 year, and other than ongoing gynecomastia while taking it I didn't feel that bad... until I quit.

Within a few weeks it became increasingly hard for me to think. I lost all creative drive (used to do 3D modeling and make music), libido was near nonexistent, orgasms pleasureless. My dick was very numb and had barely any sensation to touch, after a while I noticed structural abnormalities like skin discolorations, rubbery tissue and the erection quality was so poor as if some areas weren't getting blood flow at all.

Took me 2 years to connect the dots that this was from Finasteride usage, once I found a myriad of people online with the same symptoms. Of course I tried a vast array of supplements and herbs, to no avail, and only now, after doing steroid cycles with Proviron, followed by Tamoxifen & HCG PCT am I starting to feel normal and even reversing some of the damage that androgen deprivation caused to my dick.

It's a f*****g tragedy that we are still stuck with this drug as the #1 choice for hair loss, because even though people with outcomes like myself are probably in the minority, the fact that this can happen to someone from a drug that they take for their hair is unacceptable.

My hair now is almost as bad as before I ever took Propecia (NW3) and even though hair loss is still a concern to me, the price I paid for inhibiting 5-alpha reductase (4 years of my life living like a zombie) was absolutely not worth it. Either I will find another way or just go bald, because I sure as sh*t don't plan on putting my balls on the chopping block with hormonal treatments again.

 

[NaNaMaOn]

@Pigeon Well, what’s the alternative?