Diet and hair loss?

[freakout]

If all men have androgens and DHT yet others get to keep their hair, what else do have to blame? Genes?

Baldness occurs WITHIN a lifetime which means something switched it on DURING that lifetime. There is no such thing as a "timer" gene waiting to set off by itself.

I'm not convinced male pattern baldness is caused by diet except for a very few lucky ones.)

So what about things like puberty, the menopause etc.

Yes, and I've been waiting to see for Androgenetic Alopecia 'experts' to push the issue of puberty: "That male hormones triggered the condition".

The argument is strong. I might agree if 'genetically' susceptible guys begin losing at 15 or so BUT many cases begin at the ages of over twenty - not right after pubety. Others in their thirties.

male pattern baldness seem to occur at a time when men are exposed to serious responsibilities.
For example, Prince William had a thick full head in his early twenties. His hair began to shed when "Kate pressured him into marriage".

 

[freakout]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20398601
Some bald men will die sooner due to their propensity to develop cardio/coronary and other associated conditions. We also know that cardio/coronary conditions are often lifestyle influenced.

I wonder (and i doubt i'm the first) whether or not nitric oxide is the link here, could also be insulin resistance or the body's response to inflamation. In all cases i personally think environment as well as genetic factors can play a role.

For example with nitric oxide

http://circ.ahajournals.org/cgi/content/short/119/7/940

Genetic Variations in Nitric Oxide Synthase 1 Adaptor Protein Are Associated With Sudden Cardiac Death in US White Community-Based Populations

so genes can play a role, but a nitric oxide friendly diet would also help.

and before anyone starts .... i'm not suggesting an increase in NO will cut dead hair loss, I'm tinkering at the margins

I'm inclined to believe that. Nitirc oxide is used to treat heart conditions. I'm also saying that many things can set off your genes.

Check this out:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21431424

Stress factors and systolic blood pressure can cause heart conditions. But why would breathing forest air lower stress hormones and systolic blood pressure in just one day of walking in the forest?

Those 'lowered' levels were the norm when human evolved in the forests which means that the levels in the cities are chronically high which means that death rate due to thsoe conditions are higher in the cities which means that it's true that hunter-gatherer men are less prone to hair loss.

The cause/s of male pattern baldness is lurking in the cities.

 

[powersam]

Those 'lowered' levels were the norm when human evolved in the forests which means that the levels in the cities are chronically high which means that death rate due to thsoe conditions are higher in the cities which means that it's true that hunter-gatherer men are less prone to hair loss.

The cause/s of male pattern baldness is lurking in the cities.

That is a huge overreach.

 

[slurms mackenzie]

Male pattern baldness is determined by genetics.

Identical twins experience the same rate of balding. Show me pics of identical twins raised in different environments where one is completely bald and the other has a full head of hair.

It can only exist if one of the twins is a eunuch and he would be the twin with the full head of hair :woot:

I'd say male pattern baldness is generally determined by genetics, but it's progression can be slightly altered by lifestyle, I wouldn't mind seeing more of this kind of study.

J Gerontol A Biol Sci Med Sci. 2005 Aug;60(8):1077-82. Related Articles,
Links
Click here to read
Hair loss among elderly men: etiology and impact on perceived age.

Rexbye H, Petersen I, Iachina M, Mortensen J, McGue M, Vaupel JW,
Christensen K.

Epidemiology Unit, Institute of Public Health, University of
Southern Denmark, Sdr. Boulevard 23A, DK-5000 Odense C, Denmark.

BACKGROUND: Androgenetic alopecia is the most common type of hair
loss in men, but little is known about the etiology of androgenetic
alopecia in elderly men and its impact on perceived age. Here we used a
population-based twin study of men aged 70+ to assess the magnitude of
the genetic component affecting hair loss and to examine the association
between baldness and perceived age. METHODS: In the fourth wave of The
Longitudinal Study of Aging Danish Twins we obtained digital photos of
the face and photos of the vertex area of 739 elderly male twins,
including 148 intact twin pairs. The degree of baldness and perceived
age were assessed in each twin by five and nine nurses, respectively.
The heritability of balding was estimated using structural-equation
analysis, and it was tested whether baldness was associated with
estimations of age. RESULTS: The intrapair correlation of degree of
balding was consistently higher for monozygotic than for dizygotic twin
pairs regardless of the baldness categorization used, and
structural-equation analysis revealed a heritability of 79% (95%
confidence interval, 0.40-0.85) for the mean baldness index. The
remaining variation could be attributed to nonshared environmental
effects. There was only a very weak and statistically nonsignificant
association between baldness and overestimation of age. CONCLUSIONS: The
majority of the variation in baldness in elderly men can be explained by
genetic factors, and hair quantity has little impact on perceived age in
elderly men.

PMID: 16127116 [PubMed - in process]

 

[s.a.f]

I'd say male pattern baldness is generally determined by genetics, but it's progression can be slightly altered by lifestyle, I wouldn't mind seeing more of this kind of study.

Yes but to what extent?
I'd say I was destined like my father and grandfathers to be a NW6 by my mid 20's. Could some specially selected diet and lifestyle make a difference?

Maybe I could have held on until my late 20's? But it would hardly be worth it in the big scheme of things. I'm convinced nothing barring the best scientific treatments would of made a dramatic difference.

 

[slurms mackenzie]

[quote="sir chugalot":3vhlvc80]
I'd say male pattern baldness is generally determined by genetics, but it's progression can be slightly altered by lifestyle, I wouldn't mind seeing more of this kind of study.

Yes but to what extent?

I'd say I was destined like my father and grandfathers to be a NW6 by my mid 20's. Could some specially selected diet and lifestyle make a difference?
[/quote:3vhlvc80]

Judging by what i've read in the past you've stated you had pretty aggressive hairloss, I'd be amazed if there were lifestyle alterations that made a difference of more than a couple of years, but i really don't know.

If lifestyle changes made a massive difference then anecdotally we'd see a bigger difference in twins as well, everybody would know the twin that didn't look after himself and went bald because he smoked etc, well we just don't get those anecdotes (although actually there was one on here a couple of weeks ago).

I'd also like to add if stress was such a huge factor in all of this, clinicians would have noticed people on valium sprouting hairs first rather than people on minoxidil.

Maybe I could have held on until my late 20's? But it would hardly be worth it in the big scheme of things. I'm convinced nothing barring the best scientific treatments would of made a dramatic difference.

No i don't think it would make a dramatic difference for aggressive hairloss, whether or not it's worth it depends upon the changes people would put in place, hairloss made me change my attitudes to health, not because i thought being healthier would arrest it, but because 1) The only way i could justify paying for propecia was if i quit cigarettes (this was before generics) and 2) It made me aware of my mortality. The small changes i did make i'm glad i did.

 

[Thom]

For example, Prince William had a thick full head in his early twenties. His hair began to shed when "Kate pressured him into marriage".

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

 

[Spanishlad]

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

 

[s.a.f]

For example, Prince William had a thick full head in his early twenties. His hair began to shed when "Kate pressured him into marriage".

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Exactly :agree: oh the pressure of marrying a goodlooking woman. When you're financially secure for life.
I guess his uncle Edward must've also been pressured into marriage aswell?

 

[freakout]

For example, Prince William had a thick full head in his early twenties. His hair began to shed when "Kate pressured him into marriage".

Exactly :agree: oh the pressure of marrying a goodlooking woman. When you're financially secure for life.
I guess his uncle Edward must've also been pressured into marriage aswell?

s.a.f. finally "agrees" I wouldn't know about Edward's case. If I were to dodge the stress issues that comes along with the upcoming events in his life, I would go for a private wedding reception - nothing grand and I would bann reporters so I won't have to be carefull with what I say to the press - no more need for scripts and scripts writers.

I call it stress triggered male pattern baldness.

Genes do not set off by themselves - Epigenetics - something or environmental signals set them off. Look to emerging science s.a.f.

We can always say male hormones are involved or set the genes off (on) - that perhaps Prince Williams already began losing after puberty.

But his condition is a case example of accelerated male pattern baldness occurring between the ages of 24 and 28. Something during that time was setting off his genes.

IT'S NOT DHT.

 

[anxious1]

I do believe u r speaking horse sh*t again freakout! :moon:

 

[freakout]

Anxious1, you must have an explanation to why 'genetically' susceptible guys DO NOT exihibit signs of hair loss right after puberty when their hormones shoot up.

Why was Prince Williams' hair intack between puberty and around 23 years of age. Why was his male pattern baldness accelerated beween age 23 and now (age 28)?

How much do you know about epigenetics?

For someone who is into a medical degree, you seem to be too conventional and closed minded. I also expect you to know more about biology than me. But that's not what it seems judging by your posts.

 

[Bryan]

Anxious1, you must have an explanation to why 'genetically' susceptible guys DO NOT exihibit signs of hair loss right after puberty when their hormones shoot up.

That's been explained to you over and over and over ad nauseum, but you just won't listen. You keep repeating this same garbage.

 

[balder]

Theoretically speaking, balding prone follicles become sensitive to androgens in an age dependent manner. They are genetically programmed to miniaturize in the presence of androgens past a certain biological age.

That seems to be why injecting testosterone into an adult castrated person will cause them to experience rapid balding if they have strong balding genetics...

Male pattern baldness is an inherited trait.

Maybe when androgen resistant hair follicles can be cloned, unrestrictedly multiplied and transplanted on the scalp to a qualitatively cosmetic substantiation will there finally be a cure.

 

[s.a.f]

Thank f*** Bryans stepped in! :notworthy

 

[powersam]

Male pattern baldness is an inherited trait.

I think that is oversimplifying it. I think one inherits a predisposition to baldness, the strength of which varies from person to person.

Maybe when androgen resistant hair follicles can be cloned, unrestrictedly multiplied and transplanted on the scalp to a qualitatively cosmetic substantiation will there finally be a cure.

Really they'd not need to be androgen resistant as long as unlimited hair was available. Top ups wouldn't be so bad as they'd not be cutting a flap of skin off the back of your head.

I'd consider that a cure.

 

[shineman921]

Male pattern baldness is an inherited trait.

I think that is oversimplifying it. I think one inherits a predisposition to baldness, the strength of which varies from person to person.

Maybe when androgen resistant hair follicles can be cloned, unrestrictedly multiplied and transplanted on the scalp to a qualitatively cosmetic substantiation will there finally be a cure.

Really they'd not need to be androgen resistant as long as unlimited hair was available. Top ups wouldn't be so bad as they'd not be cutting a flap of skin off the back of your head.

I'd consider that a cure.

Personally, I think it is predominantly inherited but I do think there are things that trigger it.

 

[powersam]

Personally, I think it is predominantly inherited but I do think there are things that trigger it.

Trigger is not the right word.

Exacerbate or accelerate.

 

[shineman921]

Personally, I think it is predominantly inherited but I do think there are things that trigger it.

Trigger is not the right word.

Exacerbate or accelerate.

yep, agree with either word.

 

[freakout]

Thank f*ck Bryans stepped in! :notworthy

Please don't tell me Bryan is your "expert"' - that you relied onl his arguments like his infamous "brain cooling" theory.

No wonder you know nothing about the association of male pattern baldness with potentially fatal diseases.
--------------------------------------
Anxious1, this is for you.

Stress factors are major issues in the development of cardio/coronary conditions.

male pattern baldness is associated with the a similar set of cardio/coronary conditions.

What does that tell you? Nothing? If you represent the future generation of doctors, we are all going to hell.