A Very Interesting New Follica Patent: Needling Device And Drug Applicator

[MinervaCGI]

Exactly, and also the response curve of wounding is very different than drugs. Conversion of vellus to terminal hair takes many months. Im still regrowing even after more than a year and numerous users here and from other sites are reporting a progressive improvement too, especially if they are using minoxidil.

Its false that people arent getting results with this, its not backed by studies nor forum anecdotes. It sad to see respetable forum members negating the obvious.

Generally takes 6-8 months for the average person. Some regrow terminal hair directly. Some go through the painstaking journey or de-miniaturization over a period of a couple years.

 

[ToLGuy]

Microneedling? No.

The delusions of people who try to justify DIY not working? Hell yes.



You're really bad at understanding this.

3-4 months is the amount of time it has generally taken in any study to see obvious results. You expect me to believe that after 3 fuckin' months of following the protocol to the best of my ability, and ensuing 5 months there after, that I actually just had to keep rolling for six months straight and then I'd have total regrowth?

That's not how this works. Wounding is supposed to create new hair. That means that, if after several months, none of that vellus hair has grown, then it means no terminal hair has grown. No amount of rolling from that point is going to magically make that vellus hair grow.

Just accept that it didn't work for you, and wait until the professionals who've spent a decade studying this sh*t show what they can do.

Face it: 9/10 of you, to be generous, are going to fall silent in that thread within six months. No photos. Nothing, because it didn't work on any worthwhile level.

Dude, you said exactly the same thing in the other thread, and I replied with a long post explaining the flaws of your arguments, which mostly consisted in having a wrong or incomplete theoretical background of wounding and hair regrowth, as well as dismissing the anecdotal accounts of the few long term (more than a year) needlers here. I won't post such a long response here again, cause I would be repeating exactly the same arguments that were strangely ignored there.
A decent amount of people in the large microneedling thread are committed to microneedle at least for a year and have swore to be patient even if they don't get early results before that deadline. That is something we should really do based on the experiences of a few late responders, so that's the difference between the current “community trial” and the past threads full of impatient folks expecting miracles.

 

[That Guy]

Dude, you said exactly the same thing in the other thread, and I replied with a long post explaining the flaws of your arguments, which mostly consisted in having a wrong or incomplete theoretical background of wounding and hair regrowth, as well as dismissing the anecdotal accounts of the few long term (more than a year) needlers here. I won't post such a long response here again, cause I would be repeating exactly the same arguments that were strangely ignored there.
A decent amount of people in the large microneedling thread are committed to microneedle at least for a year and have swore to be patient even if they don't get early results before that deadline. That is something we should really do based on the experiences of a few late responders, so that's the difference between the current “community trial” and the past threads full of impatient folks expecting miracles.

Post your pictures.

 

[ToLGuy]

Post your pictures.

Why would I post pictures when I am only at 1.5 months with no cosmetic improvement? I already stated in the other thread that I'll only take pictures every 3 months. So, it will be baseline, 3 months, 6 months, 9 months, and 1 year for a reasonable comparison. I even think there won't be any VISUAL (and I hope you understand the importance of this term) at 3 months.
On the other hand, there are plenty of pictures of forum members that has been posted in the other thread. There are some of them who have got early improvements at 2 months, some others are still the same for obvious reasons. Today, a member just compiled all the progress pictures so far in a single place, look it up in the last three pages of the thread.
Let me know what you think.

 

[That Guy]

Why would I post pictures when I am only at 1.5 months with no cosmetic improvement? I already stated in the other thread that I'll only take pictures every 3 months. So, it will be baseline, 3 months, 6 months, 9 months, and 1 year for a reasonable comparison. I even think there won't be any VISUAL (and I hope you understand the importance of this term) at 3 months.
On the other hand, there are plenty of pictures of forum members that has been posted in the other thread. There are some of them who have got early improvements at 2 months, some others are still the same for obvious reasons. Today, a member just compiled all the progress pictures so far in a single place, look it up in the last three pages of the thread.
Let me know what you think.

You say you have to keep going for the results, you chastise about it, but you've only been doing this for a month and a half.

There are some users who've got good results, others whose results are extremely dubious. Most get none at all or a meager, next-to-worthless result.

Again, that's just not how this works.

The most successful, and one of the only studies on this, did once-a-week rolling and assessed the results at 3 months.

If this method of DIY dermaroll + minoxidil is working, it will start working from the first or second session.

The facts are clear on this: If you've not seen results after 3 - 5 months, then it is not working for you.

and there could be a huge number of reasons why, that'll you'll not be able to determine. It could be needle size, depth, frequency, time of application, response to minoxidil etc. and all of this could depend on the individual.

Your whole "you have to keep going for ever and ever" is just a cope. Even if, in some cases, it's true — then it means it's working so poorly and slowly that'll you have to keep going for years.

Hey! Don't forget to buy Somebody's book on how he regrew his hair via dermarolling in less than 7 months while you're waiting! Only 7.50 for Kindle on Amazon! Grab your copy now!

 

[Kagaho]

Again, that's just not how this works.

The most successful, and one of the only studies on this, did once-a-week rolling and assessed the results at 3 months.

If this method of DIY dermaroll + minoxidil is working, it will start working from the first or second session.

The facts are clear on this: If you've not seen results after 3 - 5 months, then it is not working for you.

Hey! Don't forget to buy Somebody's book on how he regrew his hair via dermarolling in less than 7 months while you're waiting! Only 7.50 for Kindle on Amazon! Grab your copy now!

Yo can go all ironic, but youre so so wrong about this one.

Results will vary, some people will respond better than other no matter how long they dermaroll but this treatment may very well start to become cosmetically significant after a year or even more.

In my personal experience its directly correlated with how "damaged" the skin is.

Those areas with fewer hair and less vascularised will struggle to recover, that was reported by some users who are/were high NWs (the well known Prettyfly for example) and also happened to me on my right temple which is only starting to grow some new hair after one year of weekly sessions.

Its almost unbelievable how similar regions of the scalp can be incredible different and thats something you learn while wounding. Its difficult to explain

I think you drop DIY Dermastamping too early man

 

[Ollie]

You're really bad at understanding this.

3-4 months is the amount of time it has generally taken in any study to see obvious results. You expect me to believe that after 3 fuckin' months of following the protocol to the best of my ability, and ensuing 5 months there after, that I actually just had to keep rolling for six months straight and then I'd have total regrowth?

That's not how this works. Wounding is supposed to create new hair. That means that, if after several months, none of that vellus hair has grown, then it means no terminal hair has grown. No amount of rolling from that point is going to magically make that vellus hair grow.

Just accept that it didn't work for you, and wait until the professionals who've spent a decade studying this sh*t show what they can do.

Face it: 9/10 of you, to be generous, are going to fall silent in that thread within six months. No photos. Nothing, because it didn't work on any worthwhile level.

The vast majority of follica is backed by rodent studies. Rodents have insane cell proliferation which is why everything works so well on them. Humans don't and thats why this will be another average treatment that gives maybe some regrowth to those who are good responders to wounding, followed by falling back below baseline a couple of years later. You can say all you want that the 'experts' have been studying this for 10 years but at the end of the day sticking needles in your scalp is sticking needles in your scalp, whether it be with a fancy machine or someone with a pen in front of their bathroom mirror. The only difference will be is that they give you a little bottle of growth factors to go home and apply along with the rebranded minoxidil they also give you.

 

[That Guy]

Yo can go all ironic, but youre so so wrong about this one.

Results will vary, some people will respond better than other no matter how long they dermaroll but this treatment may very well start to become cosmetically significant after a year or even more.

In my personal experience its directly correlated with how "damaged" the skin is.

Those areas with fewer hair and less vascularised will struggle to recover, that was reported by some users who are/were high NWs (the well known Prettyfly for example) and also happened to me on my right temple which is only starting to grow some new hair after one year of weekly sessions.

Its almost unbelievable how similar regions of the scalp can be incredible different and thats something you learn while wounding. Its difficult to explain

I think you drop DIY Dermastamping too early man

Post your pics.

You think you guys are the first on this rodeo?

The vast majority of follica is backed by rodent studies. Rodents have insane cell proliferation which is why everything works so well on them. Humans don't and thats why this will be another average treatment that gives maybe some regrowth to those who are good responders to wounding, followed by falling back below baseline a couple of years later. You can say all you want that the 'experts' have been studying this for 10 years but at the end of the day sticking needles in your scalp is sticking needles in your scalp, whether it be with a fancy machine or someone with a pen in front of their bathroom mirror. The only difference will be is that they give you a little bottle of growth factors to go home and apply along with the rebranded minoxidil they also give you.

Wounding neogenesis is backed by human studies.

You have no clue what compounds they will be using along with minoxidil.

@Hate da Bt I await you and that other psychopath's obligatory downvote for no f*****g reason.

 

[tomJ]

If after all these years there product is a motorized microneedler/massager with liquid minoxidil distribution system...I will blow a fuse.

 

[PeggyPeterson]

You have no clue what compounds they will be using along with minoxidil.

Any idea what they’re using other than minoxidil?

Someone on this forum said they will be going through FDA clearance rather than FDA approval. As far as I know, the latter is for only when you are introducing a new drug. Is this your thinking as well?

 

[ZenHead]

Needling works - if you go deep enough. From what I’ve read (and believe me I’ve scoured the internet for hours and hours) those who wound 1.5mm or deeper, enough to draw small pin pricks of blood and / or redness respond better and quicker. I’m a testament to this. I used a roller every week for 2 months a while ago, didn’t see much results at all so I dropped it. Recently I switched to an electric needling pen set at 2.0mm. The results are not even comparable to the roller. My original hairline is coming back and these hairs are turning thick and terminal. My mind is pretty much blown because this is the first time I’ve seen any significant results. Still waiting on results on the crown, but that area started balding first and I expected it to take a little more time to see anything anyway. I don’t think there’s much to debate on this topic, especially with the progress pics being posted in the other dermarolling thread. It seems like basically everyone is seeing a change and it’s still early. Follica’s approach can make this better, as I’m sure it will be more than just wounding and minoxidil. They’ve spent 10 years on this so I don’t really think they’ll disappoint.

 

[Hate da Bt]

If after all these years there product is a motorized microneedler/massager with liquid minoxidil distribution system...I will blow a fuse.

Essentially it is.
Fortunately, there are more serious gigs to lay your hopes on.

 

[Ollie]

Essentially it is.
Fortunately, there are more serious gigs to lay your hopes on.

Any idea how shiseido is getting on ? Swear we were all waiting for data this quarter.

 

[kiwi666]

I do think we are clutching at straws with folica especially after reading that latest patent, it is just wounding, the emphasis is not on a new compound at all, read the patent and see for yourself, your a little delusional if you think a magic topical will come out of no where from them, theres no evidence to suggest that at all.

Having said that I hope in some way their needles or components used to wound are in some way designed to disrupt the follicles differently somehow we will just have to wait and see with that, anyone got any thoughts on potential release date at this stage?

You’re speculating.

If I were to be devils advocate the patent for the stamp is great news. Unlike existing derminators, rollers and pens they have done a significant amount of RND to refine a product specifically for a problem (that we all suffer from).

And I don’t believe they would design / invest in patenting a new electric stamp that could also apply a topical if they didn’t at the very least have something that was safe for us to use.

I don’t even care if it’s minoxidil if their specific device works.

Of course I’m just doing what you’re doing but being optimistic. Neither of us know.

What we do know is that some people are needling with results and growing back norwoods.

I don’t think any of us should diss it until we know. Also try the derminator yourself (1.5mm 2.00mm) for a year. Or shut up about whether needling works.

 

[tomJ]

Needling works - if you go deep enough. From what I’ve read (and believe me I’ve scoured the internet for hours and hours) those who wound 1.5mm or deeper, enough to draw small pin pricks of blood and / or redness respond better and quicker. I’m a testament to this. I used a roller every week for 2 months a while ago, didn’t see much results at all so I dropped it. Recently I switched to an electric needling pen set at 2.0mm. The results are not even comparable to the roller. My original hairline is coming back and these hairs are turning thick and terminal. My mind is pretty much blown because this is the first time I’ve seen any significant results. Still waiting on results on the crown, but that area started balding first and I expected it to take a little more time to see anything anyway. I don’t think there’s much to debate on this topic, especially with the progress pics being posted in the other dermarolling thread. It seems like basically everyone is seeing a change and it’s still early. Follica’s approach can make this better, as I’m sure it will be more than just wounding and minoxidil. They’ve spent 10 years on this so I don’t really think they’ll disappoint.

Well yea if you are making deeper channels for the minoxidil to penetrate deeper into your dermis then yea you should get a better response. Doubt it does much without minoxidil.

 

[tomJ]

You’re speculating.

If I were to be devils advocate the patent for the stamp is great news. Unlike existing derminators, rollers and pens they have done a significant amount of RND to refine a product specifically for a problem (that we all suffer from).

And I don’t believe they would design / invest in patenting a new electric stamp that could also apply a topical if they didn’t at the very least have something that was safe for us to use.

I don’t even care if it’s minoxidil if their specific device works.

Of course I’m just doing what you’re doing but being optimistic. Neither of us know.

What we do know is that some people are needling with results and growing back norwoods.

I don’t think any of us should diss it until we know. Also try the derminator yourself (1.5mm 2.00mm) for a year. Or shut up about whether needling works.

Who cares if needling works with minoxidil if you cant handle minoxidil side effects. Remember, not all can handle the bad effects of minoxidil on skin and the cardiovascular system. So this new treatment may be useless for the non minoxidil users population.

 

[That Guy]

Any idea what they’re using other than minoxidil?

Nope, but there's at least one other thing.

 

[That Guy]

Needling works - if you go deep enough. From what I’ve read (and believe me I’ve scoured the internet for hours and hours) those who wound 1.5mm or deeper, enough to draw small pin pricks of blood and / or redness respond better and quicker. I’m a testament to this. I used a roller every week for 2 months a while ago, didn’t see much results at all so I dropped it. Recently I switched to an electric needling pen set at 2.0mm. The results are not even comparable to the roller. My original hairline is coming back and these hairs are turning thick and terminal. My mind is pretty much blown because this is the first time I’ve seen any significant results. Still waiting on results on the crown, but that area started balding first and I expected it to take a little more time to see anything anyway. I don’t think there’s much to debate on this topic, especially with the progress pics being posted in the other dermarolling thread. It seems like basically everyone is seeing a change and it’s still early. Follica’s approach can make this better, as I’m sure it will be more than just wounding and minoxidil. They’ve spent 10 years on this so I don’t really think they’ll disappoint.

Where are the pictures!?

 

[Hate da Bt]

Any idea how shiseido is getting on ? Swear we were all waiting for data this quarter.

No clue.
True, but it didn't happen.
Let's see what 2019 holds for us.

 

[hailbrotzu]

This device would actually be great. Applying topicals with long hair is a pain in the *** and wastes a lot of topical. Also when parting your hair its hard to reach the back of your crown. If they made this so that a small depth say .5 mm deep could be used for application of topical that would be a game changer.