Where is everyone from?

[Cassin]

sir you have me mistaken.

 

[squeegee]

USA, one of the few countries where you can still legally carry a gun, hell yeah!

lol. In my Country, we don't need a gun to live in society.

 

[Shma]

crazy gun-maniacs... I don't get it and probably never will.

 

[follicle84]

England/uk.

Gun Maniacs? So you are saying that anyone who embraces the right to defend themselves with modern weapons (Firearms) is a maniac? There is no logic in that.

I live in a city with an extremely high crime rate (Memphis, Tn) Carjackings, Murders, rapes, occur almost everyday in my city. And criminals will always have access to guns whether they are legal or not, ( just as Drugs are illegal- criminals still deal in drugs). So I'm glad that I live in a country that gives me the same right as my countries military and police, the right to bear arms. The right for United States Citizens to bear arms, helps create a balance between the power of the government and the People.

In countries where it is illegal to bear arms the citizens have no power they are simply sheep, there must be checks and balances for a democratic society to function.

In my country Firearms are a balancing factor, if there's one thing that history has taught its that absolute power corrupts absolutly. The first thing that Hitler did before he enacted the holocost was, disarm the German citizens so that the Jews would have no way to protect themselves, this would never have happened in the States because our citizens are armed.

In Switzerland every male is required to own a rifle and keep it in his house, incidently Switzerland has one of the lowest crime rates in the world, see the video below.

And finally, guns are just plain cool, the're a guy thing and the're fun to shoot and collect, and in case your wondering, I posted a pic of my gun below.

[youtube:1sfhnsco]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nf1OgV449g[/youtube:1sfhnsco]

You have a good arguement there, but also note that hitler had the power of speach to sway the german people on to his side. That is an even deadlier weapon than any gun. Brain washing the masses to do thy bidding.

and as cool as guns maybe they are at the end of the day a weapon to end ones life. I wouldnt want to do that to anyone, but i understand this is a cultural difference. American independance came about by civilians (colonials) arming themselves to fend for themselves against the british government. Its only natural that this tradition has been carried on to ward off suppression from governments and those in power. You can't be blamed, as america woudnt be the place it is today if regular citizens were not given that power and freedom.

 

[Shma]

Gun Maniacs?[...]

[...]And finally, guns are just plain cool, the're a guy thing and the're fun to shoot and collect[...]

that sums it up nicely.

 

[somone uk]

Gun Maniacs?[...]

[...]And finally, guns are just plain cool, the're a guy thing and the're fun to shoot and collect[...]

that sums it up nicely.

So are the people of Switzerland ''gun maniacs'' as well? Every household in Switzerland contains an armed family. and they have one of the lowest crime rates in the world. It seems to me like your logic is maniacle!

in a country the amount of gun crime is proportional to the amount of guns (Switzerland as an exception)

the situation in terms of motives and maturity are just 2 completely different stories
if ran along a street wielding a gun in Switzerland, shooting it unsafely i would have an entire Swiss platoon surrounding me
in America i would be on tv and have platoon cars chasing me
in all honesty the Swiss just have less idiots and a much more mature, respectful approach to guns

i am not sure how legal the swiss are in this because isn't conscription seen as a violation to the UN declaration of human rights? :dunno:

 

[HughJass]

Doesn't Switzerland has the highest rate of firearm crime in Europe?

 

[squeegee]

Less guns in circulation, less chances to have problem with them? Common sense? Free America? Guys live in fear of each others and need to arm yourself to breath in society for your safety? LOL


What is the average age of crime commited with a rifle in America? Funny how the subject get touchy when we talk about guns with Americans!

 

[Cassin]

Less guns in circulation, less chances to have problem with them? Common sense? Free America? Guys live in fear of each others and need to arm yourself to breath in society for your safety? LOL


What is the average age of crime commited with a rifle in America? Funny how the subject get touchy when we talk about guns with Americans!

Guns in America is a very complicated situation that goes back to the very beginning of this country.

 

[squeegee]

Less guns in circulation, less chances to have problem with them? Common sense? Free America? Guys live in fear of each others and need to arm yourself to breath in society for your safety? LOL


What is the average age of crime commited with a rifle in America? Funny how the subject get touchy when we talk about guns with Americans!

Guns in America is a very complicated situation that goes back to the very beginning of this country.

Totally agree with you... World War stories... but Today, Kill or hurt the rapist with a gun and you will end up in jail or his family will sue you for millions!! yeah. Nowadays criminals have rights. The redneck mentality is obsolete in 2010. Only good to own rifles if people turn zombies! LOL

 

[Cassin]

dude are you high or something?

 

[squeegee]

dude are you high or something?

Just joking... LOL

 

[HughJass]

Doesn't Switzerland has the highest rate of firearm crime in Europe?

Your country has outlawed the private citizen ownership of guns, has it lowered your crime rate....NO,NO,NO!

yeah but they weren't banned to stop crime. They were bought in to stop gun crime namely, massacres. And it worked.


So that argument is a little silly

 

[squeegee]

Whats wrong with your brain

What is wrong with an invasion of Zombies? unk:

 

[follicle84]

I do respectively disagree with this; it is quite the contrary my friend...At the end of the day they (Weapons) are the assurance that my family will never be harmed by an outside force such as a rapist, burglar, ect. Their life(Criminals) will be ended not mine or my loved ones!

Dont get me wrong you have the right to defend yourself and if there are many criminals with guns its only fair to allow ordinary citizens this right also. Its a system that works for you and your country and i dont question that at all. However in the uk we are quite lucky for many criminals to not be in possesion of guns. Although we do get them its not a big problem giving the weight of activity of crime without guns. Even the ones with guns know better than to pop civilians. There's a strict jail sentense of at least 5years for being in possession of a gun alone and even more serious if used. Criminals usually use guns to defend themselves or shoot other gangsters. Every so often a civilian is the victim of gun crime but you dont hear about such things often. Its a system that works for us. I think thats why a lot of uk residents dont see eye to eye with america with guns.

I understand a little about american culture and know its not as bad as painted in the press. Like that colombine incident with that kid who went into school and shot at his fellow students. That was an unfortunate incident and one that doesnt happen all the time. Its a shame the odd few idiots take advantage of your laws in this way and give america a bad image when its not all like that.

 

[Draco88]

Whats wrong with your brain

What is wrong with an invasion of Zombies? unk:

lol zombies but i gotta agree, guns will come in handy in the event that the human race turns zombie! :shock:

 

[HughJass]

Oh dear. An NRA spam-bot...

In the 12 years since the law reforms, there have been no mass shootings. But there is also evidence of wider collateral benefits in reduced gun deaths overall. While the rate of firearm homicide was reducing in Australia by an average of 3% per year prior to the law reforms, this more than doubled to 7.5% per year after the introduction of the new laws, although to the delight of our local gun lobby, this failed to reach statistical significance simply because of the low statistical power inherent in the small numbers involved.
http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/09/09/wha ... n-control/

Switzerland has no standing army, but all young men are obliged to train as soldiers and are called up for three or four weeks a year for abouta decade. Throughout this time they keep a rifle plus maybe a pistol at home, with ammunition. Once the call-up period ends they are not required to surrender them. The rationale is that the entire population is ready to spring to the nation's defence in the event of the French, Germans or Italians deciding to invade.

But the price of eternal vigilance is frequent funerals: in 2005, 48 people were murdered by gunfire in Switzerland - about the same number as in England and Wales, which have a population seven times as large. According to the International Action Network on Small Arms, an anti-gun organisation based in the UK, 6.2 people died of bullet wounds in Switzerland in 2005 per 100,000 of population, second only to the US figure of 9.42, and more than double the rate of Germany and Italy.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 46946.html

 

[somone uk]

in all honesty the Swiss just have less idiots and a much more mature, respectful approach to guns

Really?????? less idiots? Yeah, you are correct, we are just a bunch of morons over here in the USA! It's not like we were the only country to ever make it to the Moon, or invent the airplane (the Wright brothers) or harness electricity (Edison), or invent the atomic bomb, ect,ect,ect!

You are are the idiot my friend!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

firstly i wasn't calling ALL americans idiots but you have to face it you have idiots in your country, the uk has idots too, katie price came from the uk for 1 such example
there are geniuses in america too, space and first manned flight

though i am going to debate the harnessing of electricity, for 1 thing Edison was just a patent office thief and invented nothing he has been credited for, the light bulb was invented by Joseph swan a year before for example
Edison did not harness electricity it was a consequence of Michael Faraday's work, which was to then be mathematically modelled by James Clark Maxwell
all Edison did was took glory for other people's work, and electrocuted dogs in the street to "prove" AC was dangerous and that every house should be on DC but none of his work was really scientifically objective but part of a feud with Nicola Tesla who pointed out AC could be transformed to high voltages to efficiently transmit electricity

i wouldn't call the nuke a brilliant discovery, it caused MAD warfare and mass paranoia of annihilation and mass political unrest, The Manhattan project was a collaborative effort of many countries trying to discover the nuke before the nazis and most of the Manhattan project regretted it's discovery since the nazis surrendered before it was discoverd

 

[Bryan]

though i am going to debate the harnessing of electricity, for 1 thing Edison was just a patent office thief and invented nothing he has been credited for, the light bulb was invented by Joseph swan a year before for example

????

You're just joking, right?? :shock: :dunno:

Edison did not harness electricity it was a consequence of Michael Faraday's work, which was to then be mathematically modelled by James Clark Maxwell

That's James CLERK Maxwell.

 

[follicle84]

Well thank you for your thoughtful response. Hunting is also a big tradition here in the states, I understand that in your country Fox hunting was a long standing tradition that was eliminated along with your countries ban on guns that is a shame.

Yes it would seem britain is losing a lot culture thanks to new laws. Im pretty sure at some point there wont be anything apart from the queen that will remain whats left of traditional british culture. Its like the country is losing part of its identity.

I'm curious since guns are illegal, are there other meens of self protection that have become a popular legal alternitve in your country?

Well this is the weird thing. We cant's use anysort of weapons and we cant beat up criminals who try and harm us. Now your probably thinking wtf. The law states we can only use reasonable force to defend our selves. That means if you attack back unless you have a witness you have to prove your actions were valid (self defence) and give possible evidence.

Now that probably sounds bad. However a lot of houses are close together and neighbours look out for each other. We have community police officers in the area at least were i live. So if someone attacked you either a neighbour or police officer will come to your aid. Furthermore we have a strong police presence in our cities and many ctc cameras. I think this is the governments way of compensating and protecting the public.

Furthermore the response time of police is pretty quick. I think it some where between 2-10 mins depending on the nature of the emergency (very rarelly gets to ten). Oh and they have a special unit for dealing criminals with guns called the matrix unit. They are equiped with body armour, helmet, sheilds mp45 etc. Any criminal that goes up against them in a gun fight wont live. Its only organised crime gangs that are able to get hold of guns. No ordinary criminal would have access to guns so we are usually safe from things like that.

And even though the criminals may not often use Firearms in your country they could still overpower/outnumber someone with a knife or club, in which case a gun in the hands of a law abiding citizen would still be needed for protection.

There was a knife crime thing in britain not to long ago that was getting out of control. However the laws on obtaining knifes are much stricter now and police have increased there numbers to ensure the streets are safe. Further more our clubs have a team of doormen to ensure things like that dont happen. They search customer etc. Furthermore you would be surprised how well some people can handle themselves. Most people who go out clubbing have a lot friends and familly to back them if trouble starts. Thats not to say someone doesnt ever get hurt. There are some who do become victims of this but it aint as common as you would think.

Lastly there is an exception to the rule in defending yourself. If your in your own house you can be more aggressive especially if you have familly to protect. If a criminal has a weapon you can act in self defense and use a weapon either a knife or base ball bat. However we would still have to be carefull about doing that. You would still have to use reasonable force. So you wouldnt be able to wack them over the head with a batt as such unless you were an old lady for example who would obviously be frightened for her life.

You cited that your country will punish gun possesion with a five year jail sentance we have similar laws here if a convicted felon is found in possesion of a firearm. Also people who wish to carry a concealed firearm must pass through firearm training classes and thourough background checks to obtain a Carry permit. There have been many incidences here in the states where a Armed citizen was able to prevent a crime or save someones life when a police officer was not around to do so. Additionally there are many people who live in rural areas where it would take the police up to 45 minutes to arrive in the event of an emergency, if these people are attacked and unarmed they are completly vulnarable to an attack.

See i figured it wouldn't be just as easy as going to a gun shop like some candy store without training and procedures in place. America is smarter than people give credit for. Guns are necessary in your culture and balance out against the bad. Its a necessary system that works for you as you mentioned in that example and has done since the beginings of free america.

There was a case where a 50 year old woman lived by herself in one of these rural areas, a crazed man was trying to break into her house and attack her, she called the police as the man was trying to enter her residence the police were to far away to get to her in time, thankfully she was able to shoot the man, who would have killed her otherwise, he did not have a gun, but that's the point because he could have easily overpowered her without one.

and thats totally justified my friend i think most people will agree with you on that one.

I forgot to mention there's one exception to the rule in britain as far as guns are concerned thats similair to this situation you mention. Farmers and land owners that are too far from police presence can get a permit for a gun to protect themselves but only them and they still have to prove they are acting out of self defence should they use the gun.

There was one case where a farmer actually shot one of two burglars dead. He got into trouble for it but only because he shot the burglar as he was fleeing outside the house. I think the farmer got away with it because he was frightened and it was dark. It was a massive court case. The point being are laws are very strict over here a little too strict some times but it seems to work for us.