whats the proof that DHT directly causes hairloss, and not just through its opposition to estrogen?

[czecha]

T can covert to DHT or E.

Inhibiting 5ar means more T converts to E.

High doses of E is the only thing that regrows hair. Inhibiting DHT only stops hair loss. Regrowth stories on finasteride usually involve estrogenic side effects (my own story, too), so I'd argue regrowth on 5ar-inhibitors (which is quite rare) come down to more estrogen as well.

We have the most hair when we are high T and high E, as teenagers

As our DHT (and Estrogen) declines with age, our hair declines.

Are we missing something, instead of having too much of something?

Is inhibiting 5-ar systemically merely the best way of adressing intrafollicular estrogen, by wiping out estrogens main competitor, DHT?

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

T can covert to DHT or E.

Inhibiting 5ar means more T converts to E.

High doses of E is the only thing that regrows hair. Inhibiting DHT only stops hair loss. Regrowth stories on finasteride usually involve estrogenic side effects (my own story, too), so I'd argue regrowth on 5ar-inhibitors (which is quite rare) come down to more estrogen as well.

We have the most hair when we are high T and high E, as teenagers

As our DHT (and Estrogen) declines with age, our hair declines.

Are we missing something, instead of having too much of something?

Is inhibiting 5-ar systemically merely the best way of adressing intrafollicular estrogen, by wiping out estrogens main competitor, DHT?

I am not sure that we have our highest T and E2 as teenagers corresponding to thickest hair. We have discussed this on other threads. Male hair can have a coarseness that might be perceived as "thicker" but it isn't better hair. That probably comes between the ages of 9 through 14. If you look at FtM's, you can get an idea about "male" hair versus "female" hair. The female hair/hair style is virtually always "nicer" in terms of manageability, sheen, ability to be grown long and so on. But then again, one can say similar things about "female" skin.

I see baldness as part of the overall skin differences between children, men and women and children and women have "nicer" skin. Male skin is built for the outdoors, though and is darker, coarser and more able to resist brambles and thorns. Female skin is tactile and regardless of race, more pale in color and smoother and "nicer" to the touch.

Sometimes it seems as though we XY's feel like we have to root for our team but whatever is going on, among Indo-Europeans, it has been going on for four thousand years of human history with everyone knowing that female hair is "nicer".

 

[czecha]

I am not sure that we have our highest T and E2 as teenagers corresponding to thickest hair. We have discussed this on other threads. Male hair can have a coarseness that might be perceived as "thicker" but it isn't better hair. That probably comes between the ages of 9 through 14. If you look at FtM's, you can get an idea about "male" hair versus "female" hair. The female hair/hair style is virtually always "nicer" in terms of manageability, sheen, ability to be grown long and so on. But then again, one can say similar things about "female" skin.

I see baldness as part of the overall skin differences between children, men and women and children and women have "nicer" skin. Male skin is built for the outdoors, though and is darker, coarser and more able to resist brambles and thorns. Female skin is tactile and regardless of race, more pale in color and smoother and "nicer" to the touch.

Sometimes it seems as though we XY's feel like we have to root for our team but whatever is going on, among Indo-Europeans, it has been going on for four thousand years of human history with everyone knowing that female hair is "nicer".

IMO male and female hair are closer in terms of texture during teenage years, than adulthood. There is also plenty of evidence that high T and E2 are responsible for youthful, glowing skin. And of course libido, which is just about highest in almost every male during teenage years. What causes this, if not E2 and T?

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

IMO male and female hair are closer in terms of texture during teenage years, than adulthood. There is also plenty of evidence that high T and E2 are responsible for youthful, glowing skin. And of course libido, which is just about highest in almost every male during teenage years. What causes this, if not E2 and T?

I am not saying that they don't intersect on a graph but the hormones are going in different directions. I just don't think that the T/DHT is good for hair motif pans out. While inflammation is part of the puzzle, otherwise this is just a secondary sexual characteristic prevalent above all in caucasian and Semitic people. You could probably find a point in many where incipient beard growth is accompanied by "thick hair" which at times can last for life but it's relatively rare. Beard and scalp hair growth are negatively correlated almost certainly but yeah in a certain sense, at 17 or 16, I had great hair and a bit of scruff on my face at the same time. Sadly, it did not last.

 

[deathdiss]

IMO male and female hair are closer in terms of texture during teenage years, than adulthood. There is also plenty of evidence that high T and E2 are responsible for youthful, glowing skin. And of course libido, which is just about highest in almost every male during teenage years. What causes this, if not E2 and T?

this is why i eat wholesome for years + microneedling on face with low dosage of estradiol on face. I got skin of a 15 year old girl.

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

this is why i eat wholesome for years + microneedling on face with low dosage of estradiol on face. I got skin of a 15 year old girl.

Correlation is not the same as causation. T seems to always be bad for hair and children have very little of it. You are right about females and boys and girls having the best hair among Indo-Europeans and Semites. Among Native Americans (remember them?) there are essentially no differences between XX locks and XY locks.

 

[deathdiss]

Correlation is not the same as causation. T seems to always be bad for hair and children have very little of it. You are right about females and boys and girls having the best hair among Indo-Europeans and Semites. Among Native Americans (remember them?) there are essentially no differences between XX locks and XY locks.

I was talking about skin specifically.

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

I was talking about skin specifically.

T makes skin darker and noticeably. Before and after pics of MtF's of all races show this effect. T makes skin rougher, tougher and more leathery which are great things for the outdoors and war but not so much in terms of hugging cheek to cheek. The skin effects of estrogen are incredibly profound and virtually everyone on HRT experiences the skin changes which are wonderful albeit I bruise and cut much more easily now.

 

[deathdiss]

T makes skin darker and noticeably. Before and after pics of MtF's of all races show this effect. T makes skin rougher, tougher and more leathery which are great things for the outdoors and war but not so much in terms of hugging cheek to cheek. The skin effects of estrogen are incredibly profound and virtually everyone on HRT experiences the skin changes which are wonderful albeit I bruise and cut much more easily now.

explains why my skin is glowing orange these days then

 

[deathdiss]

Correlation is not the same as causation. T seems to always be bad for hair and children have very little of it. You are right about females and boys and girls having the best hair among Indo-Europeans and Semites. Among Native Americans (remember them?) there are essentially no differences between XX locks and XY locks.

btw asked taeian about Test.

He said high Test is not correlation for balding. It's low test and High DHT levels. High DHT cut off circulation on scalp.

Low oxygen levels cause scalp levels of DHT to rise

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

explains why my skin is glowing orange these days then

I know the look exactly. It is healthful looking just like tans at first look healthy.

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

btw asked taeian about Test.

He said high Test is not correlation for balding. It's low test and High DHT levels. High DHT cut off circulation on scalp.

Low oxygen levels cause scalp levels of DHT to rise

That could be if DHT is efficiently synthesizing itself but T plus reductase equals DHT.

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

DHT could conceivably be just correlated, i.e. along for the ride with many skin conditions but there are so many: acne, dermatitis, dandruff, baldness, eczema and probably others that it is associated with. It creates virtually all body hair which I view as a negative. It kinda sucks except for people who want to be physically very strong which in a post-industrial society is likely to be fewer and fewer of us.

 

[deathdiss]

That could be if DHT is efficiently synthesizing itself but T plus reductase equals DHT.

I've never heard of people with naturally high T produce excess amount of DHT. It always looks regulated especially when they're superior genetic material.

Of course if you run a steroid cycle of Test E a lot of it can convert into DHT.


Just be High T and High estriol/estradiol levels.

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

I've never heard of people with naturally high T produce excess amount of DHT. It always looks regulated especially when they're superior genetic material.

Of course if you run a steroid cycle of Test E a lot of it can convert into DHT.


Just be High T and High estriol/estradiol levels.

I honestly don't know in terms of manipulating male hormones but such endeavors often seem either to backfire or even make things worse. We know that people who don't produce RI's tend to look effeminate and they virtually never go bald.

 

[Pls_NW-1]

I just wanted to show what androgens did to my body the last 6 years.

+baldness

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

View attachment 159278

I just wanted to show what androgens did to my body the last 6 years.

+baldness

Is that a bug or a feature? To me, <shudders> it's a bug.... You have the legs of the average FtM from what I have observed.

 

[Pls_NW-1]

Is that a bug or a feature? To me, <shudders> it's a bug.... You have the legs of the average FtM from what I have observed.

I am not sure. I would gladly take it as a feature, if it didn't was for the hair.

 

[czecha]

no girl past her tik tok phase cares about body hair. unfortunately it's quite the opposite for scalp hair or lack thereof

 

[deathdiss]

DHT OVERDOSE

View attachment 159278

I just wanted to show what androgens did to my body the last 6 years.

+baldness