What do you guys think of the Aajonus Vonderplanitz story?

[DammitLetMeIn]

please do cite them. i'd like to read these sources

Hair loss and lifestyle
While genetic factors play a strong role in the development and progression of androgenetic alopecia, lifestyle also plays a role as demonstrated by the vast increase in male pattern baldness in Japan when the country moved to a higher calorie, higher fat diet and a more sedentary lifestyle.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Androgenetic_alopecia

Although this condition could be hereditary, they believe diet is a more prominent cause. The researchers note that Japanese hair was thick and healthy, with a small gland and little scalp oil, until the occidental habit of consuming animal fat crept into their diet after World War II. This change has led to a significant height increase in the Japanese population, but it has also resulted in more Japanese men losing hair.

http://www.psoriasiscafe.org/hairloss-male.htm

For men, balding process can be slowed down by taking a low-fat diet. Some scientists postulate that the male pattern baldness is tied to increased testosterone levels during puberty. A high-fat, meat-based diet raises testosterone levels, and that may adversely affect hair follicles. For example, in Japan, male pattern baldness was very rare prior to World War II when the diet was lean and healthy. The Japanese now consume a more fatty, Westernized diet. Baldness is now increasing substantially among Japanese men. Eating low-fat foods may not stop hair loss; but it might help slow down the hair loss.

http://www.holisticonline.com/Remedies/ ... s-diet.htm

This is prolly the best one:

http://www.dhyansanjivani.org/hair_loss.asp

 

[Guest]

i give you credit for posting the sources and i actually, believe it or not, think that your arguments do have some merit. i can't think of anything else that would make male pattern baldness explode like it has in Japan except for the change in diet. I don't think that genetics in Japan changed in the course of 40 years.

what do you think gardener?

 

[The Gardener]

I believe the first two citations from wiki, but the last two are quackery.

I DO believe that diet can affect hairloss... but not in the same way that you describe.

Now, in each of our bodies is an hormonal ageing "clock" that is determined by our pituitaries and other glands. DHT remains constant... but this clock sets the timeline telling other cells in the body when to do what, and at what time, according to our ageing timeline. Our "clock" tells our penis "you are now about ready to be born... time for you to become sensitive to DHT and develop". It tells our facial hair as a teenager "you are now getting older, time to grow a beard"... and the beard follicles suddenly become sensitive to the DHT and their hairs thicken. Similarly, some of our clocks tell hairs "time to go grey", or "time for you to fall out and recede".

I am being a bit simplistic here, but my overall point is that DHT levels don't usually fluctuate all that much, but over time our cells' sensitivity does, depending on genetic factors.

Several studies have shown that diet and stress affects this process... but it does NOT do so by affecting the level of DHT, but rather it does so by slowing this internal ageing clock that is regulated by other hormones.

In effect, a Japanese man might be overloaded with DHT, but if his diet and lifestyle keeps his "clock" slow, he doesn't face things like growth of chest hair or male pattern baldness at as early a time as an American might.

 

[DammitLetMeIn]

i give you credit for posting the sources and i actually, believe it or not, think that your arguments do have some merit. i can't think of anything else that would make male pattern baldness explode like it has in Japan except for the change in diet. I don't think that genetics in Japan changed in the course of 40 years.

Dude, when my hair started falling out I went psycho and researched absolutely everything I could.

 

[Guest]

In effect, a Japanese man might be overloaded with DHT, but if his diet and lifestyle keeps his "clock" slow, he doesn't face things like growth of chest hair or male pattern baldness at as early a time as an American might.

i don't think asian men are getting any hairier on their bodies though, are they?

 

[DammitLetMeIn]

I believe the first two citations from wiki, but the last two are quackery.

I DO believe that diet can affect hairloss... but not in the same way that you describe.

Now, in each of our bodies is an hormonal ageing "clock" that is determined by our pituitaries and other glands. DHT remains constant... but this clock sets the timeline telling other cells in the body when to do what, and at what time, according to our ageing timeline. Our "clock" tells our penis "you are now about ready to be born... time for you to become sensitive to DHT and develop". It tells our facial hair as a teenager "you are now getting older, time to grow a beard"... and the beard follicles suddenly become sensitive to the DHT and their hairs thicken. Similarly, some of our clocks tell hairs "time to go grey", or "time for you to fall out and recede".

I am being a bit simplistic here, but my overall point is that DHT levels don't usually fluctuate all that much, but over time our cells' sensitivity does, depending on genetic factors.

Several studies have shown that diet and stress affects this process... but it does NOT do so by affecting the level of DHT, but rather it does so by slowing this internal ageing clock that is regulated by other hormones.

In effect, a Japanese man might be overloaded with DHT, but if his diet and lifestyle keeps his "clock" slow, he doesn't face things like growth of chest hair or male pattern baldness at as early a time as an American might.

Again you're locked into the notion that everything is pre-determined onto a timeline.

I don't believe this. I believe what we do directly influences the condition of our body.

I have read experiments where DHT levels have fluctuated massively and gone down whenever animal products have been discontinued.

 

[The Gardener]

Again you're locked into the notion that everything is pre-determined onto a timeline.

I don't believe this. I believe what we do directly influences the condition of our body.

I have read experiments where DHT levels have fluctuated massively and gone down whenever animal products have been discontinued.

Re-read what I said up above. I agreed that "what we do" can immensely affect this timeline. I believe that diet CAN affect this timeline, and do so quite effectively. But what I DON'T agree with is that diet can moderate DHT to a point where male pattern baldness is affected. I know the science here, and while diet can slow other hormones' affect on our internal clocks, which might assist in reducing male pattern baldness, diet won't be able to eliminate the effect of DHT on puberty, masculinization, and hairloss.

 

[DammitLetMeIn]

Again you're locked into the notion that everything is pre-determined onto a timeline.

I don't believe this. I believe what we do directly influences the condition of our body.

I have read experiments where DHT levels have fluctuated massively and gone down whenever animal products have been discontinued.

Re-read what I said up above. I agreed that "what we do" can immensely affect this timeline. I believe that diet CAN affect this timeline, and do so quite effectively. But what I DON'T agree with is that diet can moderate DHT to a point where male pattern baldness is affected. I know the science here, and while diet can slow other hormones' affect on our internal clocks, which might assist in reducing male pattern baldness, diet won't be able to eliminate the effect of DHT on puberty, masculinization, and hairloss.

so DHT can affect our prostates so much that they blow up to be the size of balloons but can't affect the scalp?

I don't think so man. Want to push your DHT up drink a bottle of trans fats every day and go get tested and see how high your DHT goes.

 

[The Gardener]

so DHT can affect our prostates so much that they blow up to be the size of balloons but can't affect the scalp?

I think you are arguing my argument. Yes, DHT is prevalent in the blood and affects EVERYTHING. That's exactly my point.

I don't think so man. Want to push your DHT up drink a bottle of trans fats every day and go get tested and see how high your DHT goes.

If you could post a study linking the ingestion of trans fats with high enduring levels of DHT, in other words saying that the entire hairloss enigma is easily solved and it has been trans fats all along that have made men bald, then please do so. Such a study is worthy of a Nobel Prize.

 

[DammitLetMeIn]

so DHT can affect our prostates so much that they blow up to be the size of balloons but can't affect the scalp?

I think you are arguing my argument. Yes, DHT is prevalent in the blood and affects EVERYTHING. That's exactly my point.

I don't think so man. Want to push your DHT up drink a bottle of trans fats every day and go get tested and see how high your DHT goes.

If you could post a study linking the ingestion of trans fats with high enduring levels of DHT, in other words saying that the entire hairloss enigma is easily solved and it has been trans fats all along that have made men bald, then please do so. Such a study is worthy of a Nobel Prize.

cooked fats. fats act on the body like a hormone (From Udo Erasmus, 'Fats that Heal, Fats that Kill').

It is well known that DHT causes baldness. Surely if a diet brings DHT down then the cuase will have been removed?

Heres a passage from Spencer David Kobren's book:

Geographical and cultural influences also affect hormones. Compared to Asian men, for example, Americans have more 5-alpha reductase, the enzyme that converts testosterone to DHT, and therefore have more body hair and more baldness. Scientists are studying the link that a culture's food choices may play in the action of our hormones - a diet higher in fat that does not keep blood sugar constantly balanced may create conditions in the follicles oil glands that lead to the production of more 5-alpha reductase.

he adds some more...

 

[The Gardener]

Well, back to my original picture of our furry primeval cousin...

Obviously this orangutang must be really stocking up on "cooked" fats and transfats. Damn those orangutangs really stock up on Twinkies.

 

[Guest]

It is well known that DHT causes baldness. Surely if a diet brings DHT down then the cuase will have been removed?

DHT doesn't cause baldness. Genetic sensitivity to DHT causes baldness. There are plenty of people with high levels of DHT but their androgen receptors are not geneticaly sensitive to it so they don't go bald. We don't have drugs, treatments or cures that can alter our genes at this point. So all we can do is lower DHT levels in susceptible individuals. Your diet plan will not do so by any significant amount. Taking Propecia or Avodart will.

There are plenty of people who eat your perfect low fat diet. Collegechemistrystudent is obsessed with eating the perfect healthy diet. But he still uses drugs like avodart. Do you know why? Because if he didn't, he would GO BALD.

 

[DammitLetMeIn]

cooked fats. fats act on the body like a hormone (From Udo Erasmus, 'Fats that Heal, Fats that Kill').

It is well known that DHT causes baldness. Surely if a diet brings DHT down then the cuase will have been removed?

Heres a passage from Spencer David Kobren's book:

Geographical and cultural influences also affect hormones. Compared to Asian men, for example, Americans have more 5-alpha reductase, the enzyme that converts testosterone to DHT, and therefore have more body hair and more baldness. Scientists are studying the link that a culture's food choices may play in the action of our hormones - a diet higher in fat that does not keep blood sugar constantly balanced may create conditions in the follicles oil glands that lead to the production of more 5-alpha reductase.

he adds some more...

Edit: I bet CCS still eats animal protein and cooked fats though - guarantee it.


Apparently in rural Japan the levels of male pattern baldness have stayed low where the diet has been maintained but in Urban Japan, male pattern baldness as I have said earlier has risen dramatically. how much more clear could it be?

 

[Guest]

It is well known that DHT causes baldness. Surely if a diet brings DHT down then the cuase will have been removed?

IF being the key word. Your arguments are not proven. BUt we KNOW that avodart cuts type II 5ar DHT by 98.5%, almost entirely eliminating it. Why would we try your ridiculous diet which has a very high chance of failure when we could just pop a pill?

 

[DammitLetMeIn]

It is well known that DHT causes baldness. Surely if a diet brings DHT down then the cuase will have been removed?

IF being the key word. Your arguments are not proven. BUt we KNOW that avodart cuts type II 5ar DHT by 98.5%, almost entirely eliminating it. Why would we try your ridiculous diet which has a very high chance of failure when we could just pop a pill?

I'm not saying anyone has to try anything. And again, its not my diet. I am merely repeating facts stated by scientists and doctors.

Personally, I'm not down for taking a drug long term. Hopefully I won't need one.

I'm merely asking you to look at the possibility that simple food choices can alleviate your problem.

Have you ever asked yourself WHY your DHT has gotten to a level whereby its causing hair loss?

have you ever asked why did it not start earlier? have you ever wondered about the factors causing the rise in DHT?

 

[Guest]

It is well known that DHT causes baldness. Surely if a diet brings DHT down then the cuase will have been removed?

IF being the key word. Your arguments are not proven. BUt we KNOW that avodart cuts type II 5ar DHT by 98.5%, almost entirely eliminating it. Why would we try your ridiculous diet which has a very high chance of failure when we could just pop a pill?

I'm not saying anyone has to try anything. And again, its not my diet. I am merely repeating facts stated by scientists and doctors.

Personally, I'm not down for taking a drug long term. Hopefully I won't need one.

I'm merely asking you to look at the possibility that simple food choices can alleviate your problem.

Have you ever asked yourself WHY your DHT has gotten to a level whereby its causing hair loss?

have you ever asked why did it not start earlier? have you ever wondered about the factors causing the rise in DHT?

You still aren't getting it. The problem is not my DHT LEVELS. I have normal levels of DHT. The problem is I have a genetic SENSITIVITY to DHT. It didn't start earlier because I don't have a super aggressive form of male pattern baldness. If it was, it probably would have started earlier.

 

[DammitLetMeIn]

It is well known that DHT causes baldness. Surely if a diet brings DHT down then the cuase will have been removed?

IF being the key word. Your arguments are not proven. BUt we KNOW that avodart cuts type II 5ar DHT by 98.5%, almost entirely eliminating it. Why would we try your ridiculous diet which has a very high chance of failure when we could just pop a pill?

I'm not saying anyone has to try anything. And again, its not my diet. I am merely repeating facts stated by scientists and doctors.

Personally, I'm not down for taking a drug long term. Hopefully I won't need one.

I'm merely asking you to look at the possibility that simple food choices can alleviate your problem.

Have you ever asked yourself WHY your DHT has gotten to a level whereby its causing hair loss?

have you ever asked why did it not start earlier? have you ever wondered about the factors causing the rise in DHT?

You still aren't getting it. The problem is not my DHT LEVELS. I have normal levels of DHT. The problem is I have a genetic SENSITIVITY to DHT. It didn't start earlier because I don't have a super aggressive form of male pattern baldness. If it was, it probably would have started earlier.

how do you know you have normal levels of DHT?

 

[Guest]

It is well known that DHT causes baldness. Surely if a diet brings DHT down then the cuase will have been removed?

IF being the key word. Your arguments are not proven. BUt we KNOW that avodart cuts type II 5ar DHT by 98.5%, almost entirely eliminating it. Why would we try your ridiculous diet which has a very high chance of failure when we could just pop a pill?

I'm not saying anyone has to try anything. And again, its not my diet. I am merely repeating facts stated by scientists and doctors.

Personally, I'm not down for taking a drug long term. Hopefully I won't need one.

I'm merely asking you to look at the possibility that simple food choices can alleviate your problem.

Have you ever asked yourself WHY your DHT has gotten to a level whereby its causing hair loss?

have you ever asked why did it not start earlier? have you ever wondered about the factors causing the rise in DHT?

You still aren't getting it. The problem is not my DHT LEVELS. I have normal levels of DHT. The problem is I have a genetic SENSITIVITY to DHT. It didn't start earlier because I don't have a super aggressive form of male pattern baldness. If it was, it probably would have started earlier.

how do you know you have normal levels of DHT?

because i've had my blood tested and it was within the normal ranges. what do you say now?

i don't have normal levels anymore, since my serum DHT has been cut by 90%+ since starting avodart. my levels are way below the average of those people who don't even HAVE male pattern baldness.

 

[DammitLetMeIn]

[quote="DammitLetMeIn":64f56]

It is well known that DHT causes baldness. Surely if a diet brings DHT down then the cuase will have been removed?

IF being the key word. Your arguments are not proven. BUt we KNOW that avodart cuts type II 5ar DHT by 98.5%, almost entirely eliminating it. Why would we try your ridiculous diet which has a very high chance of failure when we could just pop a pill?

I'm not saying anyone has to try anything. And again, its not my diet. I am merely repeating facts stated by scientists and doctors.

Personally, I'm not down for taking a drug long term. Hopefully I won't need one.

I'm merely asking you to look at the possibility that simple food choices can alleviate your problem.

Have you ever asked yourself WHY your DHT has gotten to a level whereby its causing hair loss?

have you ever asked why did it not start earlier? have you ever wondered about the factors causing the rise in DHT?

You still aren't getting it. The problem is not my DHT LEVELS. I have normal levels of DHT. The problem is I have a genetic SENSITIVITY to DHT. It didn't start earlier because I don't have a super aggressive form of male pattern baldness. If it was, it probably would have started earlier.

how do you know you have normal levels of DHT?

because i've had my blood tested and it was within the normal ranges. what do you say now?

i don't have normal levels anymore, since my serum DHT has been cut by 90%+ since starting avodart. my levels are way below the average of those people who don't even HAVE male pattern baldness.[/quote:64f56]

If you look at Kobren's passage I quoted earlier. What it is basically implying is that 5 alpha reductase (i.e. the converter to DHT) production is affected by food choices. you see?

 

[Guest]

ok so you say thats what its implying, but you dont have any proof that what hes saying is true, do you?