What do you guys think of the Aajonus Vonderplanitz story?

DammitLetMeIn

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JayMan said:
ok so you say thats what its implying, but you dont have any proof that what hes saying is true, do you?

Right now, no. But the plight of the rural Japanese/ Japanese pre/post war would suggest that this is the case.

plus i just did a quick search:

http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=201874

heres another (i've just looked at this for the first time too):

High Protein Diet and Prostate Enlargement


A high protein diet has been shown to inhibit 5-alpha-reductase which may result in a reduction of the conversion of testosterone to DHT, a more potent form of testosterone, which has been implicated in prostate enlargement.

Conversely a low protein, high carbohydrate diet stimulates 5-alpha-reductase.

http://www.nourishingperspectives.com/p ... _diet.html
 
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DammitLetMeIn said:
JayMan said:
ok so you say thats what its implying, but you dont have any proof that what hes saying is true, do you?

Right now, no. But the plight of the rural Japanese/ Japanese pre/post war would suggest that this is the case.

plus i just did a quick search:

http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=201874

Reducing 5ar1 is what they thought could help acne i believe. we are talking about 5ar2 here. 5ar2 is what is present in the follicles. 5ar1 is present in the surrounding glands.
 
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DammitLetMeIn said:
but if 5ar1 can be lowered im sure 5a2 can be too perhaps.

Lol. Contradicting words I think. And that site looks like a bunch of naturalist bullshit.

But I tell you what bro. You stay off the drugs and control your diet, and I'll keep popping my synthetic Avodart, and we'll see who ends up with more hair.

I'll bet 1000 bucks it's me.
 
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read the previous post. im done. assuming you have male pattern baldness, i can almost guarantee you i have more hair than you after 10 years if i stay on avodart for that time and you pursue only natural remedies.
 

DammitLetMeIn

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JayMan said:
DammitLetMeIn said:
but if 5ar1 can be lowered im sure 5a2 can be too perhaps.

Lol. Contradicting words I think. And that site looks like a bunch of naturalist bullshit.

But I tell you what bro. You stay off the drugs and control your diet, and I'll keep popping my synthetic Avodart, and we'll see who ends up with more hair.

I'll bet 1000 bucks it's me.

so you wouldn't be interested in a diet which inhibits 5a2 alpha reductase?

JayMan said:
read the previous post. im done. assuming you have male pattern baldness, i can almost guarantee you i have more hair than you after 10 years if i stay on avodart for that time and you pursue only natural remedies.

On a personal note I'm not sure what I have. My hair started shedding after 5 days blood loss so who knows.

But to me its not a competition. I'm sure everyone on this board would be happier if they thought they could control it with diet.
 

The Gardener

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The fact that human homosapiens men on earth continue to be born with dicks, and go through life growing beards and body hair should prove to you that attempting a diet, even if hypothetically possible, that eliminates DHT in and of itself is not going to be effective.

Now, if you show me some evidence of some Eskimo tribe where they eat a certain diet, and men don't go through puberty and grow dicks, then I'll listen.

Until then, the only proven way to inhibit DHT is through chemical means, namely finasteride and dutasteride.
 

DammitLetMeIn

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The Gardener said:
The fact that human homosapiens men on earth continue to be born with dicks, and go through life growing beards and body hair should prove to you that attempting a diet, even if hypothetically possible, that eliminates DHT in and of itself is not going to be effective.

Now, if you show me some evidence of some Eskimo tribe where they eat a certain diet, and men don't go through puberty and grow dicks, then I'll listen.

Until then, the only proven way to inhibit DHT is through chemical means, namely finasteride and dutasteride.

Dr Michael Colgan with 30 years experience says otherwise.
Spencer David Kobren hints at the same.

But if you read in the previous posts I guess its actually 5 alpha reductase enzyme which is what we're seeking to reduce.

wouldn't you agree?
 
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damnitletmein, i know that these drugs are working on me because my body hair has actually decreased while being on them. dht stimulates the growth of body hair and reduces scalp hair in susceptible people. so if my body hair is thinning, thats good news.
 

DammitLetMeIn

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JayMan said:
damnitletmein, i know that these drugs are working on me because my body hair has actually decreased while being on them. dht stimulates the growth of body hair and reduces scalp hair in susceptible people. so if my body hair is thinning, thats good news.

I know you're drugs are more than likely working. But you want to be on drugs forever?

especially if theres a more simple solution.

so basically we need to suppress 5ar2 alpha reductase is that correct?
 

The Gardener

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DammitLetMeIn said:
But if you read in the previous posts I guess its actually 5 alpha reductase enzyme which is what we're seeking to reduce.

wouldn't you agree?

YES!

I agree completely!
 

DammitLetMeIn

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The Gardener said:
DammitLetMeIn said:
But if you read in the previous posts I guess its actually 5 alpha reductase enzyme which is what we're seeking to reduce.

wouldn't you agree?

YES!

I agree completely!

well Kobren reckons dietary choices affect the production of alpha reductase enzyme

just out of interest, what do you make of this?

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/quer ... s=12006122

and
this:

http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=201874

I would really like to read this article:

https://profreg.medscape.com/px/getlogi ... UvNDk0MTE1
^
talks about fat and alpha reductase production
 
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DammitLetMeIn said:
JayMan said:
damnitletmein, i know that these drugs are working on me because my body hair has actually decreased while being on them. dht stimulates the growth of body hair and reduces scalp hair in susceptible people. so if my body hair is thinning, thats good news.

I know you're drugs are more than likely working. But you want to be on drugs forever?

especially if theres a more simple solution.

so basically we need to suppress 5ar2 alpha reductase is that correct?

read this:

http://www.latimes.com/features/health/ ... th-columns

"Little more than a decade ago, men afflicted with enlarged prostate glands — which can block urine's flow and lead to dangerous infections — had essentially one treatment option: surgery. Now, drugs can often be used to reverse benign prostate enlargement. These so-called prostate pills are available thanks in no small part to a Caribbean population of pseudo-hermaphrodites.

In the early 1970s, Dr. Julianne Imperato-McGinley, an endocrinologist at Cornell Medical College, traveled to a remote mountain village in the Dominican Republic to study a group of children with a unique condition.

The sex of the children was ambiguous at birth, but to the best of the villagers' knowledge they appeared to be girls, and so they were raised as such. But at puberty the girls' baby fat gave way to muscle, their voices grew deep, testes descended and penises grew. The condition — which affected about 2% of the region's children — earned the nickname guevedoces, or "penis at 12."

The "girls" developed into adult men with all the expected physiological traits, save a few: The guevedoces men had minimal facial and body hair, unyielding hairlines and prostate glands that stayed unusually small. They also had low levels of the male sex hormone dihydrotestosterone (DHT), despite normal levels of testosterone.

Ultimately, Imperato-McGinley and colleagues traced the condition to a genetic mutation that caused low levels of the enzyme 5-alpha reductase, or 5AR.

Without 5AR, a body won't make DHT. And without DHT, hair doesn't sprout on the face, arms or legs, baldness stays at bay and the prostate doesn't enlarge. (DHT levels are much higher in the prostate than they are anywhere else in the body.)

That last clinical feature of a 5AR deficiency caught the attention of scientists at pharmaceutical firm Merck & Co., shortly after Imperato-McGinley's findings were made public. If 5AR's absence kept the prostate small, they deduced, then perhaps getting rid of 5AR later in life could stop the prostate from becoming dangerously large, as it does in nearly 20% of men older than 55.

Sure enough, a drug to do just that was developed over the next 15 years. Finasteride, a 5AR-inhibitor that ties up 5AR so it can't convert testosterone to DHT, was approved in 1992. A second 5AR inhibitor, dutasteride, was approved in 2002.

The 5AR-inhibitors are proving to have other important uses too. A study published in 2003 showed that prostate cancer prevalence was reduced by 24% in men who took finasteride compared with those who took a placebo. (For decades, scientists have known that hormones can play a role in signaling cancerous cells to grow.) Investigations are underway to determine if dutasteride (which is more active than finasteride) can reduce prostate cancer risk even further. Finasteride is also widely prescribed for halting male-pattern baldness.

The guevedoces, meanwhile — and populations like them in Turkey, New Guinea and elsewhere — continue to pique the interest of researchers. They've revealed dozens of mutations that can affect 5AR, but they've also been of interest to psychiatrists and sociologists struggling to tease out the interplay of hormones, environment and culture in gender identity.

Gender, the guevedoces appear to have proved, is not always black or white."

The article is about gender but the point is, those kids had low levels of 5ar2 through a genetic mutation. Well, now I have low levels of 5ar2 through drugs. So I probably won't bald much more if at all.
 

DammitLetMeIn

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Yes, I understand, and I agree that you probably won't bald more if the drug works.

However, it is my belief that levels of 5 alpha reductase are unnaturally high in bald people (that is, they shouldn't be so high as to cause baldness)

Indeed, it is dietary mistakes which causes the overly high levels of the enzyme.

Im not saying ur gonna go bald. I'm just saying drugs dont solve the root problem.
 
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DammitLetMeIn said:
However, it is my belief that levels of 5 alpha reductase are unnaturally high in bald people (that is, they shouldn't be so high as to cause baldness)

Indeed, it is dietary mistakes which causes the overly high levels of the enzyme.

Im not saying ur gonna go bald. I'm just saying drugs dont solve the root problem.

WELL YOU ARE WRONG. How many times can I say it.

they aren't unnaturally high. I didn't have a good diet when my levels were tested before starting Avodart and my DHT levels were NORMAL. It's not the levels that cause baldness, it's the genetic susceptibility to normal levels.
 

DammitLetMeIn

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JayMan said:
DammitLetMeIn said:
However, it is my belief that levels of 5 alpha reductase are unnaturally high in bald people (that is, they shouldn't be so high as to cause baldness)

Indeed, it is dietary mistakes which causes the overly high levels of the enzyme.

Im not saying ur gonna go bald. I'm just saying drugs dont solve the root problem.

WELL YOU ARE WRONG. How many times can I say it.

they aren't unnaturally high. I didn't have a good diet when my levels were tested before starting Avodart and my DHT levels were NORMAL. It's not the levels that cause baldness, it's the genetic susceptibility to normal levels.

yes, the genetic susceptability being the level of alpha reductase, isnt that correct?

Edit: from what I'm reading, DHT creates the enzyme 5 alpha reductase
 
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DammitLetMeIn said:
JayMan said:
DammitLetMeIn said:
However, it is my belief that levels of 5 alpha reductase are unnaturally high in bald people (that is, they shouldn't be so high as to cause baldness)

Indeed, it is dietary mistakes which causes the overly high levels of the enzyme.

Im not saying ur gonna go bald. I'm just saying drugs dont solve the root problem.

WELL YOU ARE WRONG. How many times can I say it.

they aren't unnaturally high. I didn't have a good diet when my levels were tested before starting Avodart and my DHT levels were NORMAL. It's not the levels that cause baldness, it's the genetic susceptibility to normal levels.

yes, the genetic susceptability being the level of alpha reductase, isnt that correct?

No goddamnit. how many times do i have to say it. IT IS GENETIC. It has not blood levels. Bald people do not go bald because they have higher levels of DHT. THey go bald because they have a GENETIC SENSITIVITY to it. Even assuming I had high levels of DHT, if you compared me to a non-male pattern baldness person with the same level as me, I'd go bald without drugs, and he wouldn't, since he doesn't have male pattern baldness.

Are you really this dense?
 

DammitLetMeIn

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JayMan said:
DammitLetMeIn said:
JayMan said:
DammitLetMeIn said:
However, it is my belief that levels of 5 alpha reductase are unnaturally high in bald people (that is, they shouldn't be so high as to cause baldness)

Indeed, it is dietary mistakes which causes the overly high levels of the enzyme.

Im not saying ur gonna go bald. I'm just saying drugs dont solve the root problem.

WELL YOU ARE WRONG. How many times can I say it.

they aren't unnaturally high. I didn't have a good diet when my levels were tested before starting Avodart and my DHT levels were NORMAL. It's not the levels that cause baldness, it's the genetic susceptibility to normal levels.

yes, the genetic susceptability being the level of alpha reductase, isnt that correct?

No goddamnit. how many times do i have to say it. IT IS GENETIC. It has not blood levels. Bald people do not go bald because they have higher levels of DHT. THey go bald because they have a GENETIC SENSITIVITY to it. Even assuming I had high levels of DHT, if you compared me to a non-male pattern baldness person with the same level as me, I'd go bald without drugs, and he wouldn't, since he doesn't have male pattern baldness.

Are you really this dense?

from what I've read previously, people who don't have male pattern baldness have a naturally low level of the enzyme 5 alpha reductase

dont get mad dude, im tryin.
 
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DammitLetMeIn said:
from what I've read previously, people who don't have male pattern baldness have a naturally low level of the enzyme 5 alpha reductase

dont get mad dude, im tryin.

this was the case with the kiddies in the Dominican but not everyone. There are plenty of people who have normal levels of 5ar2 but don't go bald.

i wouldn't get mad if i honestly thought you were trying to understand. i just want to help people. but you're pushing your food diet on here instead of drugs.
 
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