What do you guys think of the Aajonus Vonderplanitz story?

[DammitLetMeIn]

from what I've read previously, people who don't have male pattern baldness have a naturally low level of the enzyme 5 alpha reductase

dont get mad dude, im tryin.

this was the case with the kiddies in the DR but not everyone. There are plenty of people who have normal levels of 5ar2 but don't go bald.

but I read in a book that these people have especially low levels of the enzyme that converts testosterone to dihydrotestosterone.

we all have friends who's hairline hasn't moved and i'm sure this is the reason.

so basically we have to work out what is creating the high (damaging) level of the enzyme 5 alpha reductase and seek to reduce it.

 

[Guest]

from what I've read previously, people who don't have male pattern baldness have a naturally low level of the enzyme 5 alpha reductase

dont get mad dude, im tryin.

this was the case with the kiddies in the DR but not everyone. There are plenty of people who have normal levels of 5ar2 but don't go bald.

but I read in a book that these people have especially low levels of the enzyme that converts testosterone to dihydrotestosterone.

we all have friends who's hairline hasn't moved and i'm sure this is the reason.

so basically we have to work out what is creating the high (damaging) level of the enzyme 5 alpha reductase and seek to reduce it.

THEY DID. YES THEY DID. But not everyone. They were a special case because they had a genetic mutation that gave them low levels of it.

Bryan please back me up here. I see you lurking. :hairy: If I'm wrong I'll apologize to this poor soul.

 

[DammitLetMeIn]

from what I've read previously, people who don't have male pattern baldness have a naturally low level of the enzyme 5 alpha reductase

dont get mad dude, im tryin.

this was the case with the kiddies in the DR but not everyone. There are plenty of people who have normal levels of 5ar2 but don't go bald.

but I read in a book that these people have especially low levels of the enzyme that converts testosterone to dihydrotestosterone.

we all have friends who's hairline hasn't moved and i'm sure this is the reason.

so basically we have to work out what is creating the high (damaging) level of the enzyme 5 alpha reductase and seek to reduce it.

THEY DID. YES THEY DID. But not everyone. They were a special case because they had a genetic mutation that gave them low levels of it.

Bryan please back me up here. I see you lurking. :hairy: If I'm wrong I'll apologize to this poor soul.

OK, assuming you're right. It is my belief that we were all given the capacity to have a level of enzyme which enables us to keep our hair.

we have driven it up somehow.

 

[Guest]

from what I've read previously, people who don't have male pattern baldness have a naturally low level of the enzyme 5 alpha reductase

dont get mad dude, im tryin.

this was the case with the kiddies in the DR but not everyone. There are plenty of people who have normal levels of 5ar2 but don't go bald.

but I read in a book that these people have especially low levels of the enzyme that converts testosterone to dihydrotestosterone.

we all have friends who's hairline hasn't moved and i'm sure this is the reason.

so basically we have to work out what is creating the high (damaging) level of the enzyme 5 alpha reductase and seek to reduce it.

THEY DID. YES THEY DID. But not everyone. They were a special case because they had a genetic mutation that gave them low levels of it.

Bryan please back me up here. I see you lurking. :hairy: If I'm wrong I'll apologize to this poor soul.

OK, assuming you're right. It is my belief that we were all given the capacity to have a level of enzyme which enables us to keep our hair.

we have driven it up somehow.

that's not it at all. some of us have genetics which give us a high sensitivity to DHT from 5ar2. we haven't driven anything up.

 

[DammitLetMeIn]

[quote="DammitLetMeIn":8ac34]
from what I've read previously, people who don't have male pattern baldness have a naturally low level of the enzyme 5 alpha reductase

dont get mad dude, im tryin.

this was the case with the kiddies in the DR but not everyone. There are plenty of people who have normal levels of 5ar2 but don't go bald.

but I read in a book that these people have especially low levels of the enzyme that converts testosterone to dihydrotestosterone.

we all have friends who's hairline hasn't moved and i'm sure this is the reason.

so basically we have to work out what is creating the high (damaging) level of the enzyme 5 alpha reductase and seek to reduce it.

THEY DID. YES THEY DID. But not everyone. They were a special case because they had a genetic mutation that gave them low levels of it.

Bryan please back me up here. I see you lurking. :hairy: If I'm wrong I'll apologize to this poor soul.

OK, assuming you're right. It is my belief that we were all given the capacity to have a level of enzyme which enables us to keep our hair.

we have driven it up somehow.

that's not it at all. some of us have genetics which give us a high sensitivity to DHT from 5ar2. we haven't driven anything up.[/quote:8ac34]

I disagree.

Give me your take on the relationship between DHT and 5 alpha reductase.

which comes first?

 

[Guest]

[quote="JayMan":6ba98][quote="DammitLetMeIn":6ba98]
from what I've read previously, people who don't have male pattern baldness have a naturally low level of the enzyme 5 alpha reductase

dont get mad dude, im tryin.

this was the case with the kiddies in the DR but not everyone. There are plenty of people who have normal levels of 5ar2 but don't go bald.

but I read in a book that these people have especially low levels of the enzyme that converts testosterone to dihydrotestosterone.

we all have friends who's hairline hasn't moved and i'm sure this is the reason.

so basically we have to work out what is creating the high (damaging) level of the enzyme 5 alpha reductase and seek to reduce it.

THEY DID. YES THEY DID. But not everyone. They were a special case because they had a genetic mutation that gave them low levels of it.

Bryan please back me up here. I see you lurking. :hairy: If I'm wrong I'll apologize to this poor soul.

OK, assuming you're right. It is my belief that we were all given the capacity to have a level of enzyme which enables us to keep our hair.

we have driven it up somehow.

that's not it at all. some of us have genetics which give us a high sensitivity to DHT from 5ar2. we haven't driven anything up.[/quote:6ba98]

I disagree.

Give me your take on the relationship between DHT and 5 alpha reductase.

which comes first?[/quote:6ba98]

The relationship and the order is indisputable. The enzyme 5-alpha reductase turns testosterone into DHT. Why would you ask this?

 

[DammitLetMeIn]

http://intl-jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/c ... t/56/2/320[/url]

 

[Guest]

It doesn't have it twisted as far as I can tell. Read the first sentence of your link:

"In vivo, the 5 alpha-reduction of testosterone (T) to dihydrotestosterone (DHT) is androgen dependent in pubic skin but not in the skin of the external genitalia."

 

[DammitLetMeIn]

It doesn't have it twisted as far as I can tell. Read the first sentence of your link:

"In vivo, the 5 alpha-reduction of testosterone (T) to dihydrotestosterone (DHT) is androgen dependent in pubic skin but not in the skin of the external genitalia."

but the title suggests that dht creates 5 alpha reductase does it not?

 

[Guest]

It doesn't have it twisted as far as I can tell. Read the first sentence of your link:

"In vivo, the 5 alpha-reduction of testosterone (T) to dihydrotestosterone (DHT) is androgen dependent in pubic skin but not in the skin of the external genitalia."

but the title suggests that dht creates 5 alpha reductase does it not?

no it doesn't at all. dht can stimulate 5ar activity but dht wouldn't exist without 5ar. i can slap my mom but i wouldn't exist had she not gotten pregnant.

if you are seriously arguing that 5ar creates dht, i'm done with this conversation. i have better thing to do.

 

[DammitLetMeIn]

It doesn't have it twisted as far as I can tell. Read the first sentence of your link:

"In vivo, the 5 alpha-reduction of testosterone (T) to dihydrotestosterone (DHT) is androgen dependent in pubic skin but not in the skin of the external genitalia."

but the title suggests that dht creates 5 alpha reductase does it not?

no it doesn't at all. dht can stimulate 5ar activity but dht wouldn't exist without 5ar. i can slap my mom but i wouldn't exist had she not gotten pregnant.

if you are seriously arguing that 5ar creates dht, i'm done with this conversation. i have better thing to do.

5ar turns testosterone to DHT but yo

check this:

There are natural and healthy ways to control the activity of 5 alpha reductase.

- A diet high in saturated fat such as meat, milk and butter, excessive alcohol consumption and stress increase 5 alpha reductase.

 

[Guest]

There are natural and healthy ways to control the activity of 5 alpha reductase.

- A diet high in saturated fat such as meat, milk and butter, excessive alcohol consumption and stress increase 5 alpha reductase.

please cite sources for this BESIDES that guy's book. If he doesn't have sources to back up his claims, they're not fact, and they're opinion.

 

[DammitLetMeIn]

There are natural and healthy ways to control the activity of 5 alpha reductase.

- A diet high in saturated fat such as meat, milk and butter, excessive alcohol consumption and stress increase 5 alpha reductase.

please cite sources for this BESIDES that guy's book. If he doesn't have sources to back up his claims, they're not fact, and they're opinion.

that wasn't from that guys book. it was from

http://www.eternalhealth.org/article.ph ... r_prostate

but that guys book backs it up

 

[Guest]

There are natural and healthy ways to control the activity of 5 alpha reductase.

- A diet high in saturated fat such as meat, milk and butter, excessive alcohol consumption and stress increase 5 alpha reductase.

please cite sources for this BESIDES that guy's book. If he doesn't have sources to back up his claims, they're not fact, and they're opinion.

that wasn't from that guys book. it was from

http://www.eternalhealth.org/article.ph ... r_prostate

yes and i don't see their sources listed. you're acting rather pathetically. i ask for a source, and you give me a source with no sources behind it. the source is called eternal health, which sounds like some naturalist bullshit site with no scientific data backing it.

 

[Guest]

and look, i can cite single sources too. your source says milk increases 5ar. check this out:

http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=201874

"I was recently told by my doctor that a high protein diet (ie. Tuna,
Milk, etc.) could reduce my acne because it helps inhibit the 5-alpha
reductase enzyme which converts testosterone to the potent and harmful
DHT. I tried the diet and it worked GREAT!!!"

What do you say now?

 

[DammitLetMeIn]

There are natural and healthy ways to control the activity of 5 alpha reductase.

- A diet high in saturated fat such as meat, milk and butter, excessive alcohol consumption and stress increase 5 alpha reductase.

please cite sources for this BESIDES that guy's book. If he doesn't have sources to back up his claims, they're not fact, and they're opinion.

that wasn't from that guys book. it was from

http://www.eternalhealth.org/article.ph ... r_prostate

yes and i don't see their sources listed. you're acting rather pathetically. i ask for a source, and you give me a source with no sources behind it. the source is called eternal health, which sounds like some naturalist bullshit site with no scientific data backing it.

ok, give me a minute

Kobren ain't naturalist bullshit btw

 

[Guest]

and look, i can cite single sources too. your source says milk increases 5ar. check this out:

http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=201874

"I was recently told by my doctor that a high protein diet (ie. Tuna,
Milk, etc.) could reduce my acne because it helps inhibit the 5-alpha
reductase enzyme which converts testosterone to the potent and harmful
DHT. I tried the diet and it worked GREAT!!!"

What do you say now?

 

[DammitLetMeIn]

and look, i can cite single sources too. your source says milk increases 5ar. check this out:

http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=201874

"I was recently told by my doctor that a high protein diet (ie. Tuna,
Milk, etc.) could reduce my acne because it helps inhibit the 5-alpha
reductase enzyme which converts testosterone to the potent and harmful
DHT. I tried the diet and it worked GREAT!!!"

What do you say now?

Recently, a group of Japanese researcher reported a correlation between excessive sebum in the scalp and hair loss. Excessive sebum often accompanying thinning hair is attributed to an enlargement of the sebaceous gland. They believed excessive sebum causes a high level of 5-alpha reductase, the enzyme which converts testosterone into dihydrotestosterone (DHT), and pore clogging, thus malnutrition of the hair root and a shift into the resting phase.

Although this condition could be hereditary, they believe diet is a more likely cause. The researchers note that Japanese hair was thick and healthy, with a small gland and little scalp oil, until large amounts of animal fat crept into their diet after World War II. This change has led to a significant height increase in the Japanese population, but it has also resulted in more Japanese men losing hair. To some extent, their observation makes sense: problems with greasy hair have often been noted as much as six months to a year prior hair thinning becoming noticeable. However, this might just be one of the symptoms instead of an underlying cause, so more research is needed.

http://www.digitalnaturopath.com/cond/C489177.html

give me more time

 

[DammitLetMeIn]

here's what you wanted earlier with some science:

ETIOLOGY AND MECHANISMS OF ACTION
In male-pattern baldness, scalp hair in affected areas becomes shorter, finer, and less pigmented with successive growth cycles. This type of baldness, androgenic alopecia, is thought to be associated with the presence of dihydroxytestosterone (DHT), a metabolite of testosterone. Eunuchs have low levels of testosterone and do not lose scalp hair and men with genetic deficiency of 5-alpha-reductase (the enzyme that converts testosterone to DHT) do not have male-pattern baldness.24

http://www.lef.org/protocols/prtcl-019a.shtml

the second sentence

 

[Guest]

here's what you wanted earlier with some science:

ETIOLOGY AND MECHANISMS OF ACTION
In male-pattern baldness, scalp hair in affected areas becomes shorter, finer, and less pigmented with successive growth cycles. This type of baldness, androgenic alopecia, is thought to be associated with the presence of dihydroxytestosterone (DHT), a metabolite of testosterone. Eunuchs have low levels of testosterone and do not lose scalp hair and men with genetic deficiency of 5-alpha-reductase (the enzyme that converts testosterone to DHT) do not have male-pattern baldness.24

http://www.lef.org/protocols/prtcl-019a.shtml

this proves nothing. we already knew all that.

yes androgenic alopecia is associated with DHT. if DHT didn't exist then basically no one would go bald. but it's not the DHT that's the root problem. it's the genetic sensitivity to androgens like DHT and testosterone.

50% of men at age 50 in the US have male pattern baldness. 50% don't. Are you seriously trying to claim that the 50% who don't have a deficiency of 5ar or low levels of testosterone? It's not true. They just don't have the genetic sensitivity to it that I do, and I presume you do.

That's why I cut my type II 5AR production by 98.5%, because I am genetically sensitive to it. If I wasn't genetically sensitive to it, I wouldn't be losing hair, and I wouldn't need to be on the drug.