Discussion in 'Success Stories' started by Quineapig, Dec 3, 2017.
No, dutasteride is important in my opinion. They work in synergy blocking both DHT and Test.
Hi boys, wanted to chime in here with some notes from my last visit to my endocrinologist.
On my last lab - my testosterone went up again to just a bit over max (total and free) - this is obviously a result of the blocking effect of Spironolactone. For me, however, this blockage was never significant enough to completely dry out my skin in the way that Flutamide did for years before. This came to me as a surprise, but not a surprise at all for my endocrinologist who said Spironolactone actually elevates testosterone levels in blood as its steroid-genesis inhibiting effect is rather poor. He advised that I drop to 100mg wherein the drug should still considerably block receptors (I'm 5'7 and 130 lbs) but it won't meddle with the feedback mechanism as much. Idk he's really not a fan of Spironolactone above 50mgs. My serum DHT is below menopausal-female ranges, but I'm assuming scalp DHT must be higher.
I've been shedding again in a way that I have not since I was on oral minoxidil in May + June. I know finasteride can cause a shed well into months 7-10 but who's to say? Sometimes I have the scalp itch and sometimes I do not.
I have no idea what to expect ahead and may reconsider Flutamide or consider Cyproterone-Acetate although I'm praying finasteride just picks up where that left off.
Negatives of Flutamide include increased libido, increased androgens, relatively intense gyno, and occasionally miserable hot flashes.
Interesting. Did you check other hormones? Would like to compare it to my lab tests that are on the first page of the thread.
Even if your serum DHT is low Testosterone stimulates DHT production locally in the scalp cells (because it cant get it from the blood, I think?). That's why spironolactone and dutasteride combo works well because it's blocking them both.
How old are you? I think the test reaches it peak in between age 25-30. Im 24 so hard times for me should come soon.
I think my testosterone is rising too, but slowly. When my body creates tolerance to my current dose I'm out of guns. I guess I'll try to convince my Derm to prescribe me Cypro. He thought that Im crazy when I wanted 200mg spironolactone tho... I can imagine hes face for cypro
I'll get the scalp itch whenever Im on break but rarely when on meds. For me drugs start to effect in couple weeks so I don't buy in to that finasteride takes 7-10 months to work. If I get itch while on meds that's a clear sign that something needs to be adjusted. People are different tho... Have you used Dutasteride?
You are correct regarding scalp DHT vs serum. It is always a good indication. I just read a thread where one poor fellow had a really high DHT reading on finasteride which doesn’t add up. I was on Dutasteride when I took Flutamide but obviously Dutasteride was pretty useless at that point since Flut just blocks receptors so well.
I certainly still get the itch while on spironolactone and finasteride so I’m worried that I do need to change something. With that being said, finasteride is a very very very slow treatment. Here, you’re not blocking receptors but instead reducing only one major hormone linked to hair loss as opposed to eliminating all asap.
spironolactone was a waste of time for me thus far. Oddly, there are a lot of girls on acne.com who’s skin took ages to clean up on spironolactone so I don’t know.
With all this said, my biggest fear was that Flutamide upregulated my receptors or something but to be honest I have absolutely no desire for sex on spironolactone.
I am currently conflicted between going back on Flutamide/bicalutamide or giving Cyproterone a fair shot. The sides sound scary: 1. Depression 2. Upregulation? Someone on these forums said he lost all his hair rapidly when he took a break from
cypro which sounds terrifying. My Flutamide effluvium is almost 1 year and still going.
Constructive feedback appreciated since my doctors have basically asked me to guide them.
Yes, I checked all - testosterone free and total, DHT, androstenedione, LH, FSH, denim activity, SHBG, estradiol
All pretty uninteresting except DHT which was deeeeeep low and T which was just about elevated over max on both scales
I am almost 27. When I started treatment my DHT was just over acceptable range: 120 pg/ml and t was 400 - now DHT is 5 and t 1100
So is the ketoconazole that you use every day you shampooing with Nizoral, and if so how long do you have it on for?
Yep, could be that flutamide upregulated your receptors or your testosterone is just peaking at 27y old.
Weird that I don't have any sexual sides. Only thing that changed for me is that I don't feel horny all the time and I can choose when to get aroused.
I would recommend you try dutasteride + cypro or flutamide and if that gives you too much sides or no results then just quit. These drugs won't cure you, but might give you couple more years.
Then theres stuff like RU and some research chemicals people use in here..
Was your SHBG or estradiol high as mine?
E2 0,14nmol/l (<0,15)
SHBG 41nmol/l (15-95)
Yes, I haven't used anything else for years.
I have it on for 3-30mins depends how much time I have and how lazy I am. Longer better.
My SHBG and estradiol have always been low. I doubt Flutamide upregated my receptors - as I said, I started w elevated DHT levels, serum at least in 2012 and normal testosterone, but I did not have oily skin my acne was only on my back and very very mild. Only on going off Flutamide where my DHT levels and Testosterone levels were 5 fold higher it’s to be expected to have a seborrhoea I suppose. I don’t know I am almost never horny on spironolactone except once in a while, and this is quite desirable for me if I’m being honest. I was a major thot last year and frankly I’ve sucked enough c*** for one lifetime lol
I’m curious about cypro but first I want to glide off spironolactone - at least to the point where my endocrinologists can get a better picture of what’s good and if I actually do have endogenous hyperandrogenism as misdiagnosed. I have never tried finasty on its own so I don’t mind giving it a fair chance. I do not have detectable serum DHT so at least it’s doing something. Fingers crossed for us all
Your thoughts on Bicalutamide?
I took Flutamide which is an older analog of the same nonsteroidal anti-androgen. Flutamide works like magic and I have to imagine Bicalutamide will too. You will have to take a dose that just about exceeds your phayicological need as these drugs have no feedback mechanism so effectively they cause rapid increases in serum androgens although you hair will regrow and continue to thicken, as will your skin clear and dry out. Your sex drive however may remain unchanged or increase - eventually increasing as all that T and DHT will hit it. Be sure to take tests before not only for T and DHT and DHEA/S but also Androstenodione and LH & FSH. I say this because I was put on flutamide when I was 19 by a result driven and extremely careless endocrinologist. While I got results it became impossible to sustain Flutamide at the full dose of 500mg and the hyperandrogenic profile was spun back to me as idiopathic or a 21-OH deficiency. I know now I have neither but Flutamide/ Bicalutamide and Spironolactone at least can create the appearance of an hyperandrogenic adrenal insuffiecncy over time and god forbid they put you on prednisone or dexamethasone to take care of that.
From what I understand - Flutamide/Bicalutamide are the strongest AA’s - they are oral RU. Between cypro and spironolactone I’d recommend cypro although I have not tried it only because unlike spironolactone it can actually LOWER androgens. spironolactone can do that on paper but in reality it’s a weak steroid-genesis inhibitor at normal levels. You shouldnt need much more than 100-200. After that point you’re really messing w the Aldoserone axis. Feel free to DM me re: Flut/Bica
Hello how are you?? What do you think of my regime?
500mg flutamide a day + 2.5 finasteride a day + 6 mg estradiol + minoxidil 5% a day + nirazol 2% every day ... I am a month ago with this regimen.
but before I was 4 months in flutamide 500mg a day plus finasteride 5mg a day plus 200 mg spironolactone a day plus 4 mg estradiol and minoxididil ...
I do not notice hair regrowth. What do you think?? What can I add ??? here in argentina cypro and bicalutamide is very expensive ... do you think that you should add spironolactone 300 mg ??
If you do not understand it's pir that I do not speak English ....
Your regimen looks good. Only thing that you could consider is replace finasteride with dutasteride. If flutamide doesn't work you could try spironolactone or cypro.
Your regimen is that strong that it should give you regrowth. Are you sure that your pills are legit and not fake ones? How bad is your hairloss and how old are you?
[QUOTE = "Quineapig, post: 1729865, miembro: 133483"] Tu régimen se ve bien. Lo único que podría considerar es reemplazar finasteride con dutasteride. Si la flutamida no funciona, puede probar la espironolactona o la cipro.
Tu régimen es tan fuerte que debería darte un nuevo crecimiento. ¿Estás seguro de que tus pastillas son legítimas y no falsas? ¿Qué tan grave es tu pérdida de cabello y qué edad tienes? [/ QUOTE]
Si mis píldoras son legítimas compradas en una farmacia, aquí en Argentina no pida una receta para esos medicamentos.
Tengo 27 años, mi caída no es tan grave, cuide mi cabello desde que tenía 22 años con finasterida pero también estaba perdiendo peso.
Al menos para mantener espero que mi régimen me sirva.
Your hair looks thick and healthy and in my opinion you have a really miniscure hairloss if any. Looks just like my crown area when I wake up in the morning, and I dont have any loss there. If I were you I wouldn't even risk using strong meds. I recommend using only finasteride or dutasteride.
Do you have any hairloss in the hairline region? Or is there bald persons in your family?
[QUOTE = "Quineapig, post: 1731417, miembro: 133483"] Tu cabello se ve grueso y saludable y, en mi opinión, tienes una pérdida de cabello realmente minúscula, si la hay. Se parece a mi área de la corona cuando me levanto por la mañana y no tengo ninguna pérdida allí. Si yo fuera tú, ni siquiera me arriesgaría a usar medicamentos fuertes. Recomiendo usar sólo finasteride o dutasteride.
¿Tienes alguna pérdida de cabello en la región del cabello? ¿O hay personas calvas en su familia? [/ QUOTE]
no hay personas calvas por lo menos hasta materno .... mi hermano mellizo esta parecido a mi pero con entradas grandes pero el es de frente ancha ...
Pregunta ... cuantos cabellos se caen al bañarte? Vi tus fotos y regeneraste bastante con dutas y espiro ...
[ATTACH = full] 104172 [/ ATTACH] [ATTACH = full] 104173 [/ ATTACH] [ATTACH = full] 104172 [/ ATTACH] [ATTACH = full] 104173 [/ ATTACH]
You have perfectly healthy and feminine hairline and crown area. Im quite sure that your hair on crown region has just big hair whorl and no hairloss. And if there's no balding in your family then you shouldn't worry. You shouldn't use any meds in my opinion, more harm than good.
I don't count but sometimes I see couple hair strands in shower about 2-5.
@Guido - your hair looks great, no need to risk taking that strong medication
Have you tried T-Gel shampoo?
Nope. Only Nizoral.
I might try shampoo with coal tar at some point. Maybe T-gel or something else. It should help with itch and dandruff pretty much like nizoral.