Very Impressive Dermarolling And Minxodil Results - From Tressless

pegasus2

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This is an exemption rather than the rule(nw6 reversal) i would think.And for how long did they keep their gains?
Doesn't matter. The point is it NEVER happened before microneedling. These type of results simply did not exist when minoxidil and finasteride were the only options. The fact that they exist at all now proves that microneedling works.
 

CapiLarry

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This is an exemption rather than the rule(nw6 reversal) i would think.And for how long did they keep their gains?
i think the jury's still out on 'how long the gains last?' as some are still improving/maintaining. there are some reports of people stopping needling and losing some gains. nevertheless, needling definitely improves your chances of responding well to whatever base treatment you choose. as well, most peeps are trying to bridge current treatments to a more hopeful future where better treatments are available. good luck!

as for progress reports. i'm not much into taking pictures and excruciating over each follicle..it just stresses me out as i become obsessive. in 3 months or so i'll report back with my experiences.
 
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300

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Doesn't matter. The point is it NEVER happened before microneedling. These type of results simply did not exist when minoxidil and finasteride were the only options. The fact that they exist at all now proves that microneedling works.
The argument then is "works" is a matter of perspective.i am fine with that.
 

pegasus2

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The argument then is "works" is a matter of perspective.i am fine with that.
Works is an objective measurement called hair count. Guess what happens if you stop taking minoxidil or finasteride? You lose your gains from them too. The difference is microneedling gains are proven to last longer.
 

baldlygoing

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Started today with PDRN/GHK-cu mesotherapy (face and hairline) then 1mm w/D2 all over scalp and face.

I'm using the Curenex Intense Glow and Shine which I didn't realize doesn't have the higher amounts of PDRN, so I'm a little salty about that but will use it up and then get the higher % on my next go round. I have a vial of GHK-cu that I've been using subcutaneously at 2mg/day so on the serum days I just inject it into the Curenex vial and use that mixture in the mesotherapy syringe.

Definitely going to have to get a higher percentage of lidocaine for this.
 

300

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Works is an objective measurement called hair count. Guess what happens if you stop taking minoxidil or finasteride? You lose your gains from them too. The difference is microneedling gains are proven to last longer.
i think the jury's still out on 'how long the gains last?' as some are still improving/maintaining. there are some reports of people stopping needling and losing some gains. nevertheless, needling definitely improves your chances of responding well to whatever base treatment you choose. as well, most peeps are trying to bridge current treatments to a more hopeful future where better treatments are available. good luck!

as for progress reports. i'm not much into taking pictures and excruciating over each follicle..it just stresses me out as i become obsessive. in 3 months or so i'll report back with my experiences.
Which method are you people using?Durhat or Follica?
 

pegasus2

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i think the jury's still out on 'how long the gains last?' as some are still improving/maintaining. there are some reports of people stopping needling and losing some gains. nevertheless, needling definitely improves your chances of responding well to whatever base treatment you choose. as well, most peeps are trying to bridge current treatments to a more hopeful future where better treatments are available. good luck!

as for progress reports. i'm not much into taking pictures and excruciating over each follicle..it just stresses me out as i become obsessive. in 3 months or so i'll report back with my experiences.
A study was done showing that minoxidil+needling gains lasted more than twice as long as minoxidil gains.
 

CapiLarry

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Which method are you people using?Durhat or Follica?
i'm not sure what method i'm using. i dermaroll with a 1mm for about 20-30 min - one full episode of Barry. i use a 5% lidocaine numbing cream on my hairline which seems to be most sensitive. i roll in every direction over every area multiple times. as far i can tell, needling more deeply doesn't yield any better results. when i'm done my scalp feels abraded rather than punctured. i experience no bleeding as i don't think it's necessary. time will tell but almost immediately my scalp feels healthier with the main benefit no longer having a constantly itchy scalp - that alone is worth dermarolling for me.
 

CapiLarry

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A study was done showing that minoxidil+needling gains lasted more than twice as long as minoxidil gains.
cool. i guess the question is 'do results diminish over time when needling is combined with min' as they do using min alone. obviously, the results are better with needling and will last longer but what remains to be seen is whether needling allows min gains to be kept over the long term - perhaps indefinitely?
 
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Intrigued77777777

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I HAVE A PROPOSAL for everyone here.

1. It has become clear that dermarolling (in conjunction with minoxidil or other) is able to achieve stunning recoveries as of yet not feasible with ANY medication

2. The huge disparity between the responders and non-responders does not seem to make any sense. Some are gaining 2 Norwoods with terminal hair, and some are not getting any effect. How can a NW6 with an island that has not grown a terminal hair in years see regrowth but not a 30 year old with thinning hair... The variance in minoxidil alone is not that large. Similarly the variance in finasteride is not all that large from what I have seen.

3. To find the optimal ingredients I suggest we have a survey/questionnaire. I am a statistician and can analyze the results. This is particularly useful given that the dermarolling is not a monotherapy, and is always used in conjuction with something else.


This whole dermarolling this is huge.
Agreed
 

waynakyo

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Nobody knows, so far we have multiple guys itt say the kept results with minoxidil only for 5+ years. And guy from pictures in OP recently came back and still has all his gains after 4 years.

Hell could even be that minoxidil/needling results last longer than fina only regimens.
@Pigeon
Are we talking about how long they last after stoppage of treatment or with contining treatment (dermaroll+minoxidil)?
 

Derek Clapton

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I HAVE A PROPOSAL for everyone here.

1. It has become clear that dermarolling (in conjunction with minoxidil or other) is able to achieve stunning recoveries as of yet not feasible with ANY medication

2. The huge disparity between the responders and non-responders does not seem to make any sense. Some are gaining 2 Norwoods with terminal hair, and some are not getting any effect. How can a NW6 with an island that has not grown a terminal hair in years see regrowth but not a 30 year old with thinning hair... The variance in minoxidil alone is not that large. Similarly the variance in finasteride is not all that large from what I have seen.

3. To find the optimal ingredients I suggest we have a survey/questionnaire. I am a statistician and can analyze the results. This is particularly useful given that the dermarolling is not a monotherapy, and is always used in conjuction with something else.


This whole dermarolling this is huge.
From reading what I have so far on this thread, and having tried it for several months with no results a while ago, it seems that I wasn't doing it right. I used a manual 1mm once a week in the shower for maybe 1 minute which TBH seemed excessive, but it seems like successful users have used electric rollers and have absolutely battered their scalps with them for much longer per treatment. Unfortunately none of the studies seem to go into any detail at all about what kind of roller and the method used.
 

RagnarLothbrok

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I have waaay better results going absolutely bonkers ogre bleed mode 1x per week compared to blindly following Follica protocol with no bleeding. It seems it won't work if I don't bleed. I am not sure why. I heal insanely fast though, like I could bleed my entire scalp to death and 48h later its white and healed again.

Maybe the needling protocols should be adapted to how fast someone heals. One of my friends also following Follica protocol is still with heavy irritation 5 days later... world of a difference between users.
 

pegasus2

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I have waaay better results going absolutely bonkers ogre bleed mode 1x per week compared to blindly following Follica protocol with no bleeding. It seems it won't work if I don't bleed. I am not sure why. I heal insanely fast though, like I could bleed my entire scalp to death and 48h later its white and healed again.

Maybe the needling protocols should be adapted to how fast someone heals. One of my friends also following Follica protocol is still with heavy irritation 5 days later... world of a difference between users.
How deep do you needle? What device? How many needles? How long do you needle for?
 

RagnarLothbrok

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How deep do you needle? What device? How many needles? How long do you needle for?
Dr pen M8 16 needles.

I was doing Follica style for 6 months (every 2 weeks, 0.9mm, 0 bleeding and 10min session with little erythema) without much progress. Literally felt like nothing, next day I was recovered fully.

I always healed wounds really fast, once my cat scratched my whole arm and my gf's and my wound fully healed in 4 days and hers in like 15 days (similar wound).

The only way I can bleed is >1.5MM and fairly long session with reasonable pain. I trust the science more than my broscience so thats why I was stubborn with Follica protocol but im starting to think if I dont bleed its useless for me. Literally 2 weeks after going heavier I already noticed results.
 

pegasus2

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Dr pen M8 16 needles.

I was doing Follica style for 6 months (every 2 weeks, 0.9mm, 0 bleeding and 10min session with little erythema) without much progress. Literally felt like nothing, next day I was recovered fully.

I always healed wounds really fast, once my cat scratched my whole arm and my gf's and my wound fully healed in 4 days and hers in like 15 days (similar wound).

The only way I can bleed is >1.5MM and fairly long session with reasonable pain. I trust the science more than my broscience so thats why I was stubborn with Follica protocol but im starting to think if I dont bleed its useless for me. Literally 2 weeks after going heavier I already noticed results.
That should be Follica level density if you're using the fastest setting. I use a D2 for a half hour(D2 doesn't go as fast as M8 so more time is required for the same number of needle strikes), and it leaves significant erythema and slight pinpoint bleeding. I use a depth of 1mm because I have hair in the way. After the first couple times doing this I shed like never before and soon after I had tons of regrowth. I've always suspected that the Dr Pens have trouble reaching the set depth as they have less power than the D2 yet they oscillate much faster. At those speeds I don't think it's actually penetrating to the depth that it should. At 1.5mm you might only being 1mm, so perhaps you're only now following the Follica protocol. This is why I stick with the D2 despite the relatively low speed. I know exactly how many needle strikes I'm getting and at what depth.

I don't think the time it takes to heal is a good indicator. It doesn't take long for my scalp to feel fine after these mega sessions. 24 hours or so and all the redness and pain is gone. The wound healing happens beneath the surface, week where you can't see it. Ideally you want to heal faster.
 

RagnarLothbrok

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Yeah thats a good point, I definetely think the Derminator penetrates deeper from what I seen. And Follica device quality is way higher than these sh*t consumer pens so we can assume it reaches 0.9mm with utmost accuracy.

Also I use fastest setting but im not sure if it could mean the needle staying shorter time inside skin means less trauma and might be even counterproductive past some limit.

And btw, I also experienced a shed followed by regrowth once I produced bleeding again
 

waynakyo

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1. so how come only a subset of people had really insane results while the rest got maybe 1.5x minoxidil effect

2. anyone got any hyperpigmentation from dermarolling? It seems I got some and quite worried frankly
 
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RagnarLothbrok

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1. If you check metanalysis of minoxidil studies only 40% of participants regrow hair (SULT1A main theory). If we consider microneedling a "boost" of WNT upregulation that minoxidil already does, it is to be expected some people still don't respond. Also all studies on microneedling as monotherapy have shown almost no results, so its clear minoxidil is required for the "magic". Id say it turns an hyper-responder into giga-responder. A normal responder into a great responder, and so on.

2. I haven't got hyperpigmentation despite having it in other parts of my body. Excessive scarring could cause hyperpigmentation so make sure u arent going too ham. Funnily enough microneedling is being used and studied to treat hyperpigmentation of the face skin like melasma on upper lips with great results.. lol.

And if by hyperpigmentation you mean expanding moles or dark spots you should visit your derm asap for a checkup. It could be skin melanoma (cancer) and needling over that and generating growth factors is definetely a terrible idea.
 
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