- Reaction score
- 152
Edit - Been using roller for about a month now
Last edited:
Very Impressive Dermarolling And Minxodil Results - From Tressless
Edit - Been using roller for about a month now
Wow amazing results.
- Reaction score
- 146
Greetings again.
Here is my original post from last year. If you have questions on my background and protocol, look here:
https://www.hairlosstalk.com/interact/posts/1817384/
Long story short tho; 9+ months of microneedling and minoxidil was upended by a layoff and a serious funk for me. Stopped both, and basically all gains were lost.
Restarted both on June 25th of this year, so I'm at around 11 weeks. And just like last time, and the time before, the before and after pictures speak for themselves.
On the left is, I believe July 2nd. On the right is today, September 8th. So about 9 weeks in between pictures. Hair is at 3 weeks growth after buzz cut with no guard.
Judge for yourself.
I apologize if the angles aren't perfect.
Here is my original post from last year. If you have questions on my background and protocol, look here:
https://www.hairlosstalk.com/interact/posts/1817384/
Long story short tho; 9+ months of microneedling and minoxidil was upended by a layoff and a serious funk for me. Stopped both, and basically all gains were lost.
Restarted both on June 25th of this year, so I'm at around 11 weeks. And just like last time, and the time before, the before and after pictures speak for themselves.
On the left is, I believe July 2nd. On the right is today, September 8th. So about 9 weeks in between pictures. Hair is at 3 weeks growth after buzz cut with no guard.
Judge for yourself.
I apologize if the angles aren't perfect.
Attachments
Nice! Are you the guy from reddit who lost gains after going from needling once a week, to twice a week? And minoxidil from twice a day to once a day?
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- 1,624
Great results @Liquidbanana , when you're rolling 1.5mm weekly, do you bleed? Or just hard enough for redness on the skin?
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- 187
Quick Update - I had left the forum due to the toxicity here and the stupid broscience being promoted by blind dermarolling haters.
Also as you can read in the quoted update from April, I had lost significant ground and was very depressed so decided to stay away from the forum.
I resumed dermarolling in June-July and have made significant progress again. It's not like I suddenly have brad pitt hair but atleast I don't like a 50 year old balding paedophile.
Just as a reminder, I am the unlucky a**h** for whom even dutasteride did not produce any results. It may have halted hairloss but certainly did not grow anything back.
Been consistently on minoxidil and finasteride/dutasteride for years with no significant progress in terms of hair growth.
Dermarolling is working well for me and now I intend to continue it as long as it is feasible.
My regimen - 1.5mm mild rolling daily just like @chen
I won't be much activate on the forum anymore. Wish you all well.
- Reaction score
- 146
I roll until it's a frightening bloody mess. I figure if I don't, I'm just wasting my time and effort.
I think wounding until redness just isn't enough to induce whatever healing process that is triggering hair regrowth. Which is my theory as to why so many don't see results with wounding. They just aren't going hard enough, or wounding at an appropriate depth.
Yes it seems extreme, yes when you see an example of it you go 'ugh God, what is he doing to himself?!', but it's really no big deal. 2 days after wounding, any and all redness goes away. The existing hairs look and feel strong and thick. My usually dry and itchy scalp is vibrant and healthy.
Roll/wound HARD. That's my best advice when it comes to this treatment. Besides keeping at it and not giving up. Which is all too easy to do, trust me, this is my FOURTH attempt at this.
Im not so sure, chen just like tressful stated had amazing regrowth and he was wounding lightly with 1mm before applying min i believe. I guess people need to find their own sweet spot.
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- 127
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If I use a roller I use a 1.5mm one but if I use a dermapen I set it to 2.0mm.
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- 340
On the question of proper depth:
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/jocd.13714
Microneedling in androgenetic alopecia; comparing two different depths of microneedles
Conclusion
microneedling with a depth of 0.6 mm in combination with minoxidil is more effective than minoxidil monotherapy in patients with Androgenetic Alopecia in terms of hair count and hair thickness. This depth of penetration tended to be more beneficial than depth of 1.2 mm.
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/jocd.13714
Microneedling in androgenetic alopecia; comparing two different depths of microneedles
Conclusion
microneedling with a depth of 0.6 mm in combination with minoxidil is more effective than minoxidil monotherapy in patients with Androgenetic Alopecia in terms of hair count and hair thickness. This depth of penetration tended to be more beneficial than depth of 1.2 mm.
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/jocd.13714
They surmise that a depth of more than 1mm may cause minimal damage to the hair bulge, negatively impacting results.
They surmise that a depth of more than 1mm may cause minimal damage to the hair bulge, negatively impacting results.
supermusic
Established Member
- Reaction score
- 34
The first study done in 2013 showed very good results using a 1.5mm roller device
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3746236/
I used it myself with that size and I had good benefits, although I had to stop it because it was very painful.
If a size of 0.6 is shown to work and be much less painful, it may be worth trying again
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3746236/
I used it myself with that size and I had good benefits, although I had to stop it because it was very painful.
If a size of 0.6 is shown to work and be much less painful, it may be worth trying again
supermusic
Established Member
- Reaction score
- 34
Where exactly does that say??
It is said in the full text of the article, wich I was willing to sacrifice $8 for.
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- 167
Good deal thanks! So it's similar to the Follica study in regards to depth. Did it mention anything about how many passes to make? Wondering if that is similar to Follica study as well.It is said in the full text of the article, wich I was willing to sacrifice $8 for.
I've been doing Follica protocol with the D2 at .75mm from my original hairline to where my hairline is now (bald area) and 1.0mm on top where I still have hair. And doing .5mm on hairline /.75mm where there's hair after it's healed, a few more times before it's time to do the Follica protocol again.
Past couple of months I've seen my temples get vellous hairs pop up on the temple area with a few terminal hairs come in past my current temple point. Also have a lot of vellous activity where my current hairline. My original hairline shows much less activity but there is some slight vellous activity there as well. While I do use Kirkland minoxidil 5% foam twice a day, I've been using it for years so I do believe that the regrowth I'm having is from needling. Broscience theory below...
I'm been using the D2 since November 2018, while still using minoxidil. Didn't really see much in terms of activity I've seen recently for the first year. I believe if I was a responder to increased absorption it would've happened within that first 3-12 months. The regrowth I'm seeing now has taken a couple of years and is slight, but visible, because of the regenerative effects of needling over time. It just takes longer than the standard "wait 6-12 months before deciding efficacy". I had to take a few months off around February of this year because I ran out of cartridges and it took several months for new ones to arrive with COVID.
- Reaction score
- 167
Also, I'm considering dropping the daily use once healed, to just doing Follica protocol every 2 weeks. Since I don't believe the results are due to increased absorption, it might make sense to let it really fully heal before needling again.
Thoughts?
Thoughts?
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/jocd.13714
I'm not convinced at all. No quantitative data is provided, and their results contradict themselves. Hair thickness with .6mm was significantly greater than control, but not significantly greater than 1.2mm, however 1.2mm was not significantly different from control.
What's clear is there was no difference in hair count versus minoxidil monotherapy. This protocol did not induce neogenesis, therefore it is not the optimal protocol. I don't think they wounded as densely as Follica. I think they may have had somewhat better results with .6mm due to the small sample size, and they were basically just wounding for growth factor upregulation versus neogenesis. In my view the greatest takeaway from this study is that you have to wound intensely to trigger neogenesis, otherwise you are better off lightly needling with .5mm daily for absorption and growth factor upregulation.
Here is the study they base their speculation on regarding trauma to the hair bulge:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21070465/
This study contradicts that:
http://drcarloswesley.com/T/06082014.pdf
I don't think you can compare the depth at which you would cut existing, healthy hairs for transplantion to the depth at which you would wound to induce recruitment of stem cells for neogenesis. For this purpose, damaging the bulge would seem to be beneficial. Also, the hairs that we are trying to thicken are not as deep as the healthy hairs being transplanted. Vellus hairs are around .5-1mm deep. You are absolutely traumatizing the hell out of the bulge in these hairs at any depth. Once again, I think we're left with more questions than answers.
Principles and mechanisms of regeneration in the mouse model for wound‐induced hair follicle neogenesis
I will continue wounding at a minimum depth of 1mm.