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Main difference, they shaved the heads of those subjects or? On a shaved head a roller can performe perfect because your hair does not roll up like spaghetti
Very Impressive Dermarolling And Minxodil Results - From Tressless
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This is beginning to be my fear. I've grown lots of miniaturised hairs that you can see in photos but in real life I don't look much different. However, I've only been doing it for 3 months so it's still very early in the process..
This doesn't work that much. Been doing every 2 weeks 1.5mm since December. Nothing changed on my temples besides reduced sebum. The Chinese study said needling alone is better than minoxidil. , its not true. I can only see this as a possible maintenance tool, but that's not a given either. If nothing comes in 2020 I might as well invest into a rope.
You're absolutely right, I overlooked that detail.
That very well might be the explanation as to why the Dhurat study found higher hair counts. Shaved heads are free of obstacles for needling, and also for self-assessments, it is way easier to find out improvements.
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I have 10 sessions in total since mid January, my conclusionis that it works but slowly, but I do not think you can recoversome position on the Norwood scale.
I observed improvement, something more dense in the partof the diffuse crown (it is in the only area where I apply) butnot if it is new hair or miniaturized hair that has thickened"something". I think it might be that the minoxidil bettermake its effect by absorption but I'm not sure.
There is also a lot of confusion between users using thistechnique where their heads are full of hair and the possibleimprovement can not capture as a person with their headmore depopulated.
Summary, I think next to Finasteride, Minoxidil is a great allybut by itself is not so great. I hope FOLLICA revealssomething promising aesthetically.
I observed improvement, something more dense in the partof the diffuse crown (it is in the only area where I apply) butnot if it is new hair or miniaturized hair that has thickened"something". I think it might be that the minoxidil bettermake its effect by absorption but I'm not sure.
There is also a lot of confusion between users using thistechnique where their heads are full of hair and the possibleimprovement can not capture as a person with their headmore depopulated.
Summary, I think next to Finasteride, Minoxidil is a great allybut by itself is not so great. I hope FOLLICA revealssomething promising aesthetically.
minoxidil only group with a negligible increase of 2 hairs per sq inch? Thats really weird. Most of the scientific literature we have suggest numbers ranging from 15 to 25 new hairs at 6 months.
I agree the non shaving part may have some impact on dermarolling results. Doesnt seem to be one of the best studies we have though.
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can you give me the link of the derma pen please ? iwant to buy one
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But have you been doing it alone for 12-18 months?? Isn’t there research evidence and also users on here post results of rolling alone?
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I have done it for 18 months. Needling is a supplementary treatment. You lose all gains when you quit main treatment. But you are a woman, might be different for you.
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I definitely think there are a couple factors in play here.
First off, All of the people had increase in hair count in 3 months. 57 had a an increase in hair count in the 10-30 range.
Secondly - Wounding Depth - They were only doing 1.5. We still don't know if causing more damage at a higher setting is more effective. Again follica is wounding much deeper than that. The fact one can get results with only 1.5 is encouraging.
Lastly - This is the biggest thing with wounding to me. Can we keep compounding on results? There is a huge difference between increasing hair count over 3 months, or indefinitely being able to increase hair count with future needling treatments.
A guy like chen continuously saw small incremental results for 2 years and it gradually made a cosmetic difference. Yes people in this study may not notice a "cosmetic difference" this early, but who's to say they wont months down the line? Remember hair needs time to grow as well. The fact there are increased hair counts is encouraging. It something i'm going to find out myself in the next 5 or so months.
Interesting. Link to this chen guy?
Unfortunately I've just seen this
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/31007474
I kind of didn't want to post it as I think everyone should give this a try but I thought lets be fair and honest about this, if there is studies showing no results
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/31007474
I kind of didn't want to post it as I think everyone should give this a try but I thought lets be fair and honest about this, if there is studies showing no results
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Forgive my ignorance but in the study only compare woundsonly with Minoxidil 5% no? Well, the conclusion was that theyobserved an increase in thickness, the 2 groups worked butthere was no significant difference. True? So I think it's good.
Sorry but I'm with the phone and I find it difficult to translateeverything
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Yeah, I read the full study and basically they had group 1 mesotherapy ( vitamins and a cocktail of other random stuff but no minoxidil) with derma rolling after compared to group 2 minoxidil,
the 1st month showed increase in hair diameter in group 1 compared to minoxidil then after that there were no significant differences in diameter hair count etc from what I understand anyway.
Ill have to go back and reread but I dont think there was any significant differences between the baseline and the end results. They even compared it the indian study at one point saying how their results conflict these.... Its not a total loss as we dont know the depth, or amount they were derma rolling over the scalp...
It could possibly fit into a lot of peoples conclusions on here that for real results you need to wound and use minoxidil..
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I’ve never claimed it to be a cure. Let alone “the” cure.
My ONLY claims on this site:
- finasteride sucks for some guys that get sides
- Rolling appears to improve / enhance minoxidil. Some lucky people get results just with rolling. I’m jealous.
- There are multiple different studies on needling, they all followed different methodologies and therefore show different results (duh)
On Roberta:
- @roberta is a weird *** balding chick who spends an unusually long amount of time in a thread about rolling. She has nothing positive to contribute (she repeats a lot of stuff) and spends a lot of time trying to discredit finasteride side effects and rolling.
- why is she even here?!?!?!?
Tips for new members:
- ignore other new members who claim to be lurkers that make declarative statements
Tips for fellow rollers:
- keep it up! It can’t hurt and as there are studies reporting both positive ANR no results you’ve got nothing to at all to loose
- Peace
Not sure there’s nothing to lose. Aren’t there several reports on this thread which claim things got worse after needling? I’ve been at it a little over 2 months (8 sessions) on my hairline only with particular focus on the forelock. 1.5-1.75 depth pressing hard and getting blood. Applying min once daily. Also on finasteride for 10 months (which has done nothing to stop the loss.). The areas I’ve needled are without a doubt worse than they were when I started. So while I was still losing ground prior to starting it appears that the loss has drastically accelerated the last 2 months. I want to continue as I know some have reported losses with needling before gains. But I’m much more skeptical to continue having read about people who had been maintaining and claiming this made them worse off. I do think everyone should give this a try. I just think everyone should understand that there are some who feel this actually made things worse for them. I’m personally really struggling to decide if I want to continue and potentially see things get worse faster. I’ll probably continue but maybe not as frequently or as hard.
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Thanks for your rationale reply.
I’ve been reading and contributing to this topic since the beginning of this thread (unlike @roberta the lurker). I have been needling since about October without Min.
There are people here who claim results in almost immediately. People who claim things got worse almost immediately. And everything inbetween.
Then there is the results thread with photos. I strongly recommend ignoring Roberta and reading that thread if you’re a man and want to keep your hair.
In response to things worsening. This is always to be expected when you start minoxidil. It’s my fear. Everybody forgets baldness is a progressive issue.
Who’s to say that what people are experiencing is not just a minoxidil shed OR that needling is just making the hairs at the end of their natural balding cycle fall out.
I do not claim to know.
And nobody on this site does. Especially that lurking b-arch Roberta. May her hairs never grow.
All anybody here can state with 100% truth is that it works for some people. That is 100% factual.