Very Impressive Dermarolling And Minxodil Results - From Tressless

[Derelict]

Well, i don't think i'll be stopping topical after all, i poured the contents of kirkland liquid in to a little spray bottle. I dampen my hair, dermaroll for a couple of minutes, spray a few times on my crown and dermaroll again for a minute just to make sure the liquid is evenly spread across my scalp. Much more convenient and better than using the dropper which im terrible with lol Impossible to know what dosage im getting but it was a one month supply and i only use once a day, so we will see how long it lasts me. Hopefully a couple of months so i know im getting roughly 1ml.

 

[Raksha]

That paper you linked to is the first research I've seen to show otherwise. I wouldn't ignore facts just because of one paper. It doesn't disprove what we know about wound healing. I read the paper, and it doesn't go against that chart at all. It says that we can wound less deeply and still upregulate collagen production and VEGF among other things while avoiding the inflammation that comes with going deeper, and this allows us to needle more frequently. I haven't really done much research on repairing skin damage, but it's certainly an interesting idea. As far as hair goes, these depths may not be enough to activate stem cells in the DP, but it would still promote VEGF. My hunch is that deep wounding once a month combined with shallow wounding daily would provide the best results. I think @Somebody was using 1.5mm once a week and a smaller roller daily, and he had the best success I've ever seen.

That's an interesting take. I've been curious on whether daily rolling for absorption or rolling for wounding was better for results. There's a few people on here that have had results from just wounding and no minoxidil. The common factor seems to be that they are pressing the roller in very hard and causing a lot of bleeding.

I've been trying deep wounding more forcefully for about 2 months now. Every third week I skip a rolling session. I'm only going twice as hard as people normally go. Instead of 5 passes in each direction I do 10-15 passes.

I thought I was getting results at first because I had shorter hairs through my scalp and I also had a bunch of vellus hairs (I'm diffusing all over the top of my scalp), but I'm starting to think that those must be normal hair cycle growth patterns I'm seeing. Also the vellus hairs may have always been there and I'm just noticing. You can't really see them unless the light catches it just right.

I think I'll try what you are talking about. I'll probably just cut back the deep wounding to once or twice a month and add on the shallow wounding. I was really hoping I would get some good results from rolling, but It's not looking good for me. Good news is my hair hasn't gotten any thinner in 3 years of using finasteride!

 

[Derelict]

That's an interesting take. I've been curious on whether daily rolling for absorption or rolling for wounding was better for results. There's a few people on here that have had results from just wounding and no minoxidil. The common factor seems to be that they are pressing the roller in very hard and causing a lot of bleeding.

I've been trying deep wounding more forcefully for about 2 months now. Every third week I skip a rolling session. I'm only going twice as hard as people normally go. Instead of 5 passes in each direction I do 10-15 passes.

I thought I was getting results at first because I had shorter hairs through my scalp and I also had a bunch of vellus hairs (I'm diffusing all over the top of my scalp), but I'm starting to think that those must be normal hair cycle growth patterns I'm seeing. Also the vellus hairs may have always been there and I'm just noticing. You can't really see them unless the light catches it just right.

I think I'll try what you are talking about. I'll probably just cut back the deep wounding to once or twice a month and add on the shallow wounding. I was really hoping I would get some good results from rolling, but It's not looking good for me. Good news is my hair hasn't gotten any thinner in 3 years of using finasteride!

Chen has amazing results from using 1mm daily, i think everyone has their own take on dermarolling...what length, how often, people should experiment and see what works for them.

 

[newdutuser10]

High-Frequency Microneedling is working for me.


1mm every other day which means 15 sessions a month and applying minoxidil immediately after - Routine

I have had those tiny hairs on my old hairline for months now but they were what many in this thread called cosmetically insignificant. The progress @arromanus had with high frequency microneedling made me switch to the above mentioned routine and now I'm seeing actual regrowth of those tiny hairs that stayed like that for so many months there doing nothing at all. f*****g dutasteride wasn't able to regrow those.

But now there's like a forest that was starved of fainfall. They are popping out and growing longer every week.

I tried what @arromanus did but then later changed to every other day because I was sore all the time. I even tried two days on one day off and I will be going back to that but only target the bald spot and not the entire head. So, that entire head one day and only the bald spot the next and after that one day off. Rinse and repeat no matter what day it is. 2 day on and 1 day off is a total of 20 sessions and I can't do better than this without being sore every f*****g day.

I'll come back to wounding after trying this routine for a few months because this is working better than wounding for me. I'll also be switching to 10% minoxidil soon to boost my attack on hairloss.

 

[newdutuser10]

Detailed 2 day on and 1 day off routine

Day 1 - Entire head including the hairline
Day 2 - Bald spot
Day 3 - OFF
Day 4 - Entire head including the hairline
Day 5 - Bald spot
Day 6 - OFF
.............and so on................


I understand that hairline won't be every other day but my priority is my bald spot and for now the hairline will have to do with 10 sessions a month. I want to see if my bald spot regrows hair from this higher frequency of needling or not.

 

[Moosey]

Detailed 2 day on and 1 day off routine

Day 1 - Entire head including the hairline
Day 2 - Bald spot
Day 3 - OFF
Day 4 - Entire head including the hairline
Day 5 - Bald spot
Day 6 - OFF
.............and so on................


I understand that hairline won't be every other day but my priority is my bald spot and for now the hairline will have to do with 10 sessions a month. I want to see if my bald spot regrows hair from this higher frequency of needling or not.

So you go for the hairline every 3 days?
How deep do you think you are going? Its only getting red, right? No blood?

 

[newdutuser10]

So you go for the hairline every 3 days?
How deep do you think you are going? Its only getting red, right? No blood?

It's only getting red. I go 1mm and sometimes the needles get caught which results in a red dot but in total I may have like 4-5 red dots scattered all over and every one is due to needles getting caught.


I know it's still creating microwounds or holes or whatever you want to call them because when I apply minoxidil it stings a bit.

 

[Moosey]

It's only getting red. I go 1mm and sometimes the needles get caught which results in a red dot but in total I may have like 4-5 red dots scattered all over and every one is due to needles getting caught.


I know it's still creating microwounds or holes or whatever you want to call them because when I apply minoxidil it stings a bit.

So ca. 3-5mm deep. Its what im doing at the moment on one halph of my scalp

 

[newdutuser10]

So ca. 3-5mm deep. Its what im doing at the moment on one halph of my scalp

You are running an experiment?


Half scalp higher frequency and half lower?

 

[Moosey]

You are running an experiment?


Half scalp higher frequency and half lower?

Yes. Right side is daily, mild rolling. The other halph is once a month deep needling with lots of blood, and mild needling once a week inbetween.
I used to roll once a week with 1.5mm and blood, but it didnt help alot. So im switching things up and see what happens.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5064188/ (scroll down to the first picture)
I know these are mice, but as you can see, using a 1.0mm roller showed less results than the smallest needle size. I think it even had less than the control group.
Atleast for me, i have these 3 options:
-Daily, mild needling until redness of the skin
-Weekly mild needling with redness of the skin
-hard, deep needling once a month with redness of the skin (suggested by this small study https://imgur.com/a/PQse5PB)

Because for me, hard, deep needling once a week didnt really do much. It did something buts its way too slow

 

[Headdy]

Yes. Right side is daily, mild rolling. The other halph is once a month deep needling with lots of blood, and mild needling once a week inbetween.
I used to roll once a week with 1.5mm and blood, but it didnt help alot. So im switching things up and see what happens.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5064188/ (scroll down to the first picture)
I know these are mice, but as you can see, using a 1.0mm roller showed less results than the smallest needle size. I think it even had less than the control group.
Atleast for me, i have these 3 options:
-Daily, mild needling until redness of the skin
-Weekly mild needling with redness of the skin
-hard, deep needling once a month with redness of the skin (suggested by this small study https://imgur.com/a/PQse5PB)

Because for me, hard, deep needling once a week didnt really do much. It did something buts its way too slow

Nice.

 

[hairloss_user]

I do it every 3 weeks with 1.5mm, and while not much has happened on the frontal part of the hairline, I am now going to do it daily with 0.5mm on this part only. If I see any positive changes this way. I'll switch it up to daily rolling on my whole scalp. People could try this method, on one area only.

 

[Raksha]

Chen has amazing results from using 1mm daily, i think everyone has their own take on dermarolling...what length, how often, people should experiment and see what works for them.

Holy sh*t you’re right. I hadn’t seen Chen’s and Somebody’s results until recently. It’s definitely looking like daily rolling is the way to go.

Question: Is it still worth it to buy a derma pen if I’m going to use it daily? Can I clean the cartridges with alcohol and use them several times a week?

 

[Derelict]

Holy sh*t you’re right. I hadn’t seen Chen’s and Somebody’s results until recently. It’s definitely looking like daily rolling is the way to go.

Question: Is it still worth it to buy a derma pen if I’m going to use it daily? Can I clean the cartridges with alcohol and use them several times a week?

Yeah you can clean the cartridges after each use, i personally prefer a roller over a pen, i found the pen tugged out hairs when i was using it, i was using the dr.pen ultima a6. I had a handful of hairs comes out after each use, freaked me out that those hairs might not grow back so i switched to a roller, seems to work well and i have no problems with it pulling hair out.

 

[Hardekz]

After 3 weeks of using minoxidil, i am getting side effects, 12h after a rough microneedling session. I am having vertigo, strange heart beats, chest pain, very tired... Anyone else having the same feelings ? Maybe i should wait a full day after a microneedling session ?

 

[Raksha]

Yeah you can clean the cartridges after each use, i personally prefer a roller over a pen, i found the pen tugged out hairs when i was using it, i was using the dr.pen ultima a6. I had a handful of hairs comes out after each use, freaked me out that those hairs might not grow back so i switched to a roller, seems to work well and i have no problems with it pulling hair out.

Good to know, I might stay away then since I have longer hair. So if we are dermarolling everyday should we be washing our scalp like if it was once a week? Also if I do 1mm should I wait before applying minoxidil? Would .5mm be better to start with?

@Hardekz Too much minoxidil can cause heart palpitations. That happened to me the first time I used it. If you’re heavy wounding you should wait 24 hours. Otherwise it’s going directly to your bloodstream.

 

[pegasus2]

Half the benefit of wounding seems to be increased absorption. I always apply immediately after wounding, and so do most others without issue.

 

[Derelict]

Half the benefit of wounding seems to be increased absorption. I always apply immediately after wounding, and so do most others without issue.

Yeah i always apply right after rolling, alongside taking 10mg oral minoxidil, never had any heart issues. I don't know why some people are so susceptible to palpitations etc from minoxidil while others are not.

 

[Raksha]

Yeah i always apply right after rolling, alongside taking 10mg oral minoxidil, never had any heart issues. I don't know why some people are so susceptible to palpitations etc from minoxidil while others are not.

That makes me so nervous lol. I’m just going to go for it though lol. If I get 1/4th the benefits that Chen got then I won’t look balding anymore.

What size roller do you use? Are you rolling daily?

 

[Me Vs DiffuseThinning]

I've been taking oral minoxidil, 5 mg, for like a week now. No side effects. Frankly, it feels like I'm taking a sugar pill, which is a good thing, I guess?