Update: Follica's Presentation At The 2017 Aad Meeting

[iamgotham]

I wish a cure was already here.

I have been waiting for either Follica or Histogen or Replicel/ Sheishdo since 2013. It was in 2012 when PGD2 discovery was made and a cure was promised in 2 years (yeah, not 5 but 2). I have been bald for 7 years now and I have forgotten how it is to have my crown completely covered - something which i used to take for granted before that. I am just so depressed.

I am thankful to researchers for their work but can you please hurry...

Hey @karankaran I've been tracking Follica, since this infamous video:

That was almost 10 years ago. It seemed really promising but now I just think that this is some sort of Minoxidil + Dermarolling treatment and it will probably hit market only in 2019/2020.

Histogen is the same thing, no major developments, some suspicious pictures and a promised release in Mexico in 2018 (probably more likely in 2020... or never).

One thing is certain none of them will be the so awaited cure. Personally if one of this 2 could stop the hairloss process I would be more than happy. I would just make an hair transplant and have a normal life without been completely depressed and obsessed with this sh*t.

Sorry for the rant guys, but today I had a really shitty day.

 

[thomps1523]

Hey @karankaran I've been tracking Follica, since this infamous video:

That was almost 10 years ago. It seemed really promising but now I just think that this is some sort of Minoxidil + Dermarolling treatment and it will probably hit market only in 2019/2020.

Histogen is the same thing, no major developments, some suspicious pictures and a promised release in Mexico in 2018 (probably more likely in 2020... or never).

One thing is certain none of them will be the so awaited cure. Personally if one of this 2 could stop the hairloss process I would be more than happy. I would just make an hair transplant and have a normal life without been completely depressed and obsessed with this sh*t.

Sorry for the rant guys, but today I had a really shitty day.

Sorry man we've all been there! Hairloss blows! I was involved in the community derma rolling trial we had on this site. I did it for 6 months running minoxidil over my temples that I had rolled. I rolled weekly to the point of blood streaming down my forehead. I didn't see any regrowth whatsoever, so I really feel like there's a scientific approach to provoke better results. Maybe they through dermabrasion can solicit the stem cells needed at the depth of damage necessary to prompt hair growth. We all know it will be wounding and a growth stimulant which will likely be minoxidil, but they've found a more effective way to promote new hair growth. I see it as basketball is essentially putting a ball through a hoop, but there's several different ways to do it, and we're finding out one style/way is what winning teams are doing.

 

[iamgotham]

But the results would be so amazing that could bring people that are a NW3 to a NW2 or even NW1?

I honestly don't believe in this... 10 years to develop some dermarolling bogus for you to apply with Minoxidil doesn't give any hopes.

 

[That Guy]

But the results would be so amazing that could bring people that are a NW3 to a NW2 or even NW1?

I honestly don't believe in this... 10 years to develop some dermarolling bogus for you to apply with Minoxidil doesn't give any hopes.

If something is slated to come out in around 3 years (Tsuji) people say it's bogus.

If something has been being worked on for 10 years, put through legitimate trials and had millions of dollars funneled into it over those years by a pharmaceutical company with no focus in the aesthetics market...it must also be fake. It's incredibly clear that there's just no winning with the hairloss community.

The notion that this will be equivalent to dermarolling and minoxidil is just nonsense. If that were the case, Puretech would've pulled the plug on it years ago and it wouldn't have taken a decade to develop. It is simply not in a company like that's interest to develop and fund something for so long if it isn't going to be worth their while.

The patents show it will be laser-based (which is far more precise than a needle), uses a variety of compounds one of which is probably minoxidil. But guess what? Minoxidil (and wounding) is one of the only things out there that we know for a fact grows hair and it's not understood exactly how it works. Logically, a superior method of administering it (and other compounds) should yield superior results.

You're literally saying you have no hope if they're using a proven ingredient, which makes no sense at all.

 

[KO1]

Is it confirmed it is dermarolling and not dermabrasion? If it's just DR, that's a waste of time. If DA, could be interesting and explain why it needs to be done at the doctor's office (you need anesthesia for DA).

Don't know how they can make money off this though, maybe their tool is better for DA? Is minoxidil delivery method different? They hired people experienced in drug delivery, so hopefully they have some innovations there. Who knows though.

Looks like the big takeaway is that they are close to market, contingent upon completion of their trial. Not 5 years more for this. But only if the trial works.

 

[Follisket]

 

[Xander94]

10 years only to have dermarolling + minoxidil in the next 5 years. What a dissapointment...

 

[SamFT]

Speculation speculation speculation

 

[Hairismylife]

10 years only to have dermarolling + minoxidil in the next 5 years. What a dissapointment...

Can't you read?
Please don't make your own speculation like a fact.

 

[br1]

Devil's advocate here, the product is not finished yet. Maybe when it's released, he will grow it back.

F*king funny though. made me spill my coffee..

 

[Saleen]

Long time lurker first time poster.

Has anyone ever read that article about Daphne Zohar, CEO of Puretech health in Fierce Biotech? It seems like solid evidence to me that Follica is using something else than minoxidil? Perhaps things have changed though since this article was published in 2008. Anyway here's the relevant quote from Daphne Zohar regarding the compounds used by Follica:

"What's nice about it," she adds, "is that even though this is based on breakthrough science, we are using existing compounds previously approved for systemic chronic use and reformulating them for topical acute use. We know these compounds are safe in people."

 

[KO1]

Minoxidil is approved for systemic chronic use...

 

[InBeforeTheCure]

New study from Garza et al.: After skin wounding, noncoding dsRNA coordinates prostaglandins and Wnts to promote regeneration

In a rare example akin to organogenesis in adult mammals, large wounds in mice lead to de novo morphogenesis of hair follicles. It is still not fully clear what controls this process, known as Wound Induced Hair Neogenesis (WIHN). In other tissues, prostaglandin E2 (PGE2) is an important effector of regeneration and has been shown to stimulate the Wnt/beta-catenin pathway, which in turn is known to control WIHN. Previously, our group has demonstrated that noncoding dsRNA released during wounding is both necessary and sufficient to stimulate WIHN through TLR3. Here, we hypothesize that dsRNA similarly induces the beta-catenin pathway through PGE2. We find that WIHN levels correlate closely to Wnt7b production in vivo, and that dsRNA potently induces Wnt7b in a manner that requires prostaglandin-endoperoxide synthase 2 (Ptgs2). The Ptgs2 inhibitor celecoxib reduces dsRNA-induced WIHN and Wnt7b, and exogenous PGE2 can rescue WIHN and Wnt7b. Although other wnts and pathways likely contribute, these results highlight noncoding dsRNA as an upstream coordinator of prostaglandin and Wnt levels in regeneration.

 

[Swoop]

Long time lurker...*first post*! Hi to ALL of you

A question for you @Swoop ;

Since you are (roughly) sure about the actual process of, or the procedure as a whole that Follica will be offering - would you add that to your regimen today?

If yes - how would you go about it? 1,5 mm derm? Dermabrasion?!

If not - why? The theory or mechanism of action is supposedly verified in the Indian study.

Hope you can take the time to give your honest opinion.

Cheers

You can't really do dermabrasion yourself. I would just follow something like the R. Dhurat study I guess?

I actually keep minoxidil as a backup for myself. If I need to add anything again to strengthen my hair in the future it will be minoxidil with dermarolling. I would use something of a protocol like described in the following paper: http://www.surgicalcosmetic.org.br/...ica-de-microinfusao-de-medicamentos-pela-pele

- Topical anesthesia with 4% lidocaine cream (Dermomax® Laboratorio Aché, São Paulo, Brazil) was carried out 30 minutes before the procedure. After this period, the cream was removed with saline, and the antisepsis of the entire area to be treated subsequently performed with alcoholic chlorhexidine. Once the area had been completely dried, a fenestrated sterile drape was put in place delimiting the area to be treated. - Removal of the tip from the sterilization envelope, and coupling of its distal end to the Cheyenne® apparatus, and its proximal end to the cartridge with rowed needles (model 17-bp-Magnum) (Figure 1). A small sterile container was opened for the insertion of the medication (0.5% minoxidil, injectable solution, Healthtech dispensing pharmacy, Anvisa 9003878, Rua Teresina 208/210, Vila Bertioga, São Paulo – SP, Brazil). - The apparatus’ speed was set at 90. The medication was aspirated from the sterile container into the cartridge just as it comes in contact with the needles by their rapid back and forth movement, when the device was turned on. The microneedling and drug delivery process was effected through the perpendicular puncturing of the epidermis, with manually adjusted depth at roughly 1.5mm. Renewed aspirations of medication are necessary when the amount in the cartridge is used up. The procedure is completed when a pinpoint bleeding is produced throughout the treated area (Figure 2). The cleansing after the procedure was performed with a gauze moistened in saline. Post-procedural care includes gentle washing with a neutral shampoo 6 hours after the procedure and the use of simple analgesics in case of local pain. Post-procedural photographs were taken 1 month after the 4th session (Figures 3 and 4).

Long time lurker first time poster.

Has anyone ever read that article about Daphne Zohar, CEO of Puretech health in Fierce Biotech? It seems like solid evidence to me that Follica is using something else than minoxidil? Perhaps things have changed though since this article was published in 2008. Anyway here's the relevant quote from Daphne Zohar regarding the compounds used by Follica:

"What's nice about it," she adds, "is that even though this is based on breakthrough science, we are using existing compounds previously approved for systemic chronic use and reformulating them for topical acute use. We know these compounds are safe in people."

I actually thought that article was recently. If that would be true it would be quite a strong counter argument against them using minoxidil. Considering that it is from 2008 however she is refering here to lithium.

Follica actually did trial lithium at a 8% concentration but it did not enhance their TCP technique. So yeah that failed in the past.

 

[br1]

You can't really do dermabrasion yourself. I would just follow something like the R. Dhurat study I guess?

I actually keep minoxidil as a backup for myself. If I need to add anything again to strengthen my hair in the future it will be minoxidil with dermarolling. I would use something of a protocol like described in the following paper: http://www.surgicalcosmetic.org.br/...ica-de-microinfusao-de-medicamentos-pela-pele





I actually thought that article was recently. If that would be true it would be quite a strong counter argument against them using minoxidil. Considering that it is from 2008 however she is refering here to lithium.

Follica actually did trial lithium at a 8% concentration but it did not enhance their TCP technique. So yeah that failed in the past.

You speak Portuguese?

 

[RegenWaiting]

@Swoop

Thank you for the reply.

Didn't know about that paper.

It sure seems like a lot of hassle to do it (infection-risk-free) the right way.

Anyway; hope that Follica at least manages to streamline this, to the degree that the average consumer finds it convenient.
It does however, as you point out, give you another angle of fighting Androgenetic Alopecia and does that with pretty clear
instructions as how to do it (with the hassle downside as mentioned).

I have understood that you maintain with finasteride and RU periodically. When on RU - is there
any reason why you don't already dissolve it in minoxidil?

Cheers

 

[hairblues]

@Swoop

Thank you for the reply.

Didn't know about that paper.

It sure seems like a lot of hassle to do it (infection-risk-free) the right way.

Anyway; hope that Follica at least manages to streamline this, to the degree that the average consumer finds it convenient.
It does however, as you point out, give you another angle of fighting Androgenetic Alopecia and does that with pretty clear
instructions as how to do it (with the hassle downside as mentioned).

I have understood that you maintain with finasteride and RU periodically. When on RU - is there
any reason why you don't already dissolve it in minoxidil?

Cheers

I know a few people on boards had some good luck doing minoxidil 6 days a week and derma rolling 1 day a week.
Again its a huge risk for infection so I myself would be hesitant to do this unless you take great pains to disinfect instruments--i know one guy said he boiled instrument every week. Used antiseptic--but still its a risk on your head to get infection..i don't know how infections work but its so close to your brain.
I would AT LEASt consult a dermatologist--maybe you can go periodically to have them do it or at least advice you of the risks.

Personally I am having a great response to Minoxidil so I don't think its worth doing derma rolling..at least not yet.
Minoxidil alone is working well for me....I would probably up my usage to 2x a day instead of 1x first. Or look into stronger does or increasing the amount I use etc before dermarolliing--but thats just 'me' personally...If i was not responding to minoxidil i dont know what I would do (cry?). Minoxidil feels like a temporary reprieve from execution so i sympathize with those not getting results they need.

 

[Grasshüpfer]

so close to your brain.

There's the skull in between. I don't think a superficial infection can cross it.

I have no medical knowledge whatsoever thought.

 

[br1]

There's the skull in between. I don't think a superficial infection can cross it.

I have no medical knowledge whatsoever thought.

I believe you would feel it (the infection) locally first..

I have been dermarolling (light, 0.5mm needles, no blood) once a week for a while now. I think it helps.

 

[Swoop]

I have understood that you maintain with finasteride and RU periodically. When on RU - is there
any reason why you don't already dissolve it in minoxidil?

I have used RU in combination with minoxidil (dissolved in Kirkland minoxidil). I have used minoxidil in high amounts actually. It worked great. But I simply opted for a minimum maintenance treatment at one point. The regimen I had was simply nuclear and not sustainable for a long amount of time.

But eventually when I have to bump up my regimen a bit I can always do obviously, for instance by adding minoxidil again. But I'll do it in a normal way and won't go overboard unless necessary.