Topical Dutasteride Case Assessment Thread

losingbattle88

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I paid on 4th May and received the bottle on 11th May. I live in Germany, it was send from Andorra. The FUE Clinic send me the tracking no. 1 day after I received the bottle. :rolleyes:

There are different working mechanisms for hormones, dht is regarded as a paracrine hormone that is produced and used by the body locally , rather than travelling around
it sounds like using oral dht blocker is totally pointless when you can use it topically? oral dht blockers just boost circulating testosterone that reach the folicles and could shrink them "what happaned to mustang lol". but topically applied dht blockers wont boost circulating testosterone because it doesnt go systemic. if you only use topical dht blockers you will only have a boost of scalp T but not circulating. and if you use oral you will have a boost in circulating T and scalp T. and if you use both oral and topical dutasteride you will have even more scalp T plus the circulating T which means you will go bald. BUT according to a study oral dutasteride outperformed topical dutasteride and mesotherapy, but if I add topical dutasteride too it could be too much scalp T for my hair?? jesus what do I do. at least my total T and free T is low for my age. ever since age 20 it was rather low below baseline. maybe I should just stick to a higher dose oral dutasteride everyday 1mg instead of 0.5. much more convinient to use oral and not worry about not hitting every spot on the head and your hair absorbing most of the liquid duta...which it DOES. or worry about it not going deep enough to have an effect.
 
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Btg

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explain to me what serum dht means

topical finasteride will go systemic easily because of the low molucular weight, you may aswell take it orally.
DHT signals mainly in an intracrine and paracrine manner in the tissues in which it is produced, playing only a minor role, if any, as a circulating endocrine hormone.[3][4][5] Circulating levels of DHT are 1/10th and 1/20th those of testosterone in terms of total and free concentrations, respectively,[6] whereas local DHT levels may be up to 10 times those of testosterone in tissues with high 5α-reductase expression such as the prostate gland.[7]

Quoted from wikipedia


I read an article from Harvard some years ago, where they theorised, if i remember correctly, that serum dht is a small amount of the dht that doesnt manage to bind locally and joins the bloodstream, but doesnt seem to play a role. Could be wrong though
 

Mustang

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it sounds like using oral dht blocker is totally pointless when you can use it topically? oral dht blockers just boost circulating testosterone that reach the folicles and could shrink them "what happaned to mustang lol". but topically applied dht blockers wont boost circulating testosterone because it doesnt go systemic. if you only use topical dht blockers you will only have a boost of scalp T but not circulating. and if you use oral you will have a boost in circulating T and scalp T. and if you use both oral and topical dutasteride you will have even more scalp T plus the circulating T which means you will go bald. BUT according to a study oral dutasteride outperformed topical dutasteride and mesotherapy, but if I add topical dutasteride too it could be too much scalp T for my hair?? jesus what do I do. at least my total T and free T is low for my age. ever since age 20 it was rather low below baseline. maybe I should just stick to a higher dose oral dutasteride everyday 1mg instead of 0.5. much more convinient to use oral and not worry about not hitting every spot on the head and your hair absorbing most of the liquid duta...which it DOES. or worry about it not going deep enough to have an effect.

"What happened to mustang lol". What happened to me?

I have had the best results of my life with just Topical dutasteride.

DHT is 5 times more androgenic and potent than T. It's much more harmful than Test as well. It also has a much stronger binding affinity thus is harder to compete against.

What you need to do is use both treatments. CB0301 at 7.5% (it will cost you 100 USD a month) daily and Topical Dutasteride 0.25% weekly or 0.1% daily or 0.05%. Whatever works for you.

This is the only way to address both T and wipe our scalp DHT. You can use oral minoxidil 2.5mg daily as well to extend the anagen phase.
 

losingbattle88

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DHT is not an endocrine hormone that uses the circulatory system. Its Paracrine.

Since DHT is reduced from Test at hair follicles your post makes absolute no sense.
There are different working mechanisms for hormones, dht is regarded as a paracrine hormone that is produced and used by the body locally , rather than travelling around

DHT is not an endocrine hormone that uses the circulatory system. Its Paracrine.

Since DHT is reduced from Test at hair follicles your post makes absolute no sense.
 

losingbattle88

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"What happened to mustang lol". What happened to me?

I have had the best results of my life with just Topical dutasteride.

DHT is 5 times more androgenic and potent than T. It's much more harmful than Test as well. It also has a much stronger binding affinity thus is harder to compete against.

What you need to do is use both treatments. CB0301 at 7.5% (it will cost you 100 USD a month) daily and Topical Dutasteride 0.25% weekly or 0.1% daily or 0.05%. Whatever works for you.

This is the only way to address both T and wipe our scalp DHT. You can use oral minoxidil 2.5mg daily as well to extend the anagen phase.
I already spend 287 bux for dutasteride a month 47 bux added from custom fee. It's enough for me. And As you said About dht being more potent, I already knew but you claimed that you went bald on oral dutasteride and blamed it on the increase in T. But you were also on low dose TRT, I think you are just lieing to make people only use topical dutasteride you promote, going bald on oral dutasteride is rare btw. And tbh its annoying that you keep saying pharma grade dutasteride instead of just saying dutasteride. It definately makes you sound like a shill for the company.
 
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Seuxin

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We need CB at 15€/gr guyyyyyyyy :)
Maybe it will be better to wait for Kintor Pharmaceutical AR inhibitor.
 

sparta03

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We actually need a nano particle vehicle carrier for topical duta and it will be the main hairloss treatment when this day will come
 

Seuxin

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We actually need a nano particle vehicle carrier for topical duta and it will be the main hairloss treatment when this day will come
You cannot "having" a magical nano particle vehicle. You have to use a sonicator to encapsulate your molecule in nanosomes.
 

georgman

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From what I could understand he believes that Topical Dutasteride works because it goes systemic and the sticking to oral finasteride is easier in the long rung that applying a topical. He does acknowledge the sides on Finasteride orally but believes they can be managed by adjusting the dosage, for example 0.25mg EOD or even less. 0.25mg twice a week.

He was surprised with my crown though and so no miniaturization and knew I was only on Topical Dutasteride for 18 months.

He said I can continue with Topical Dutasteride but add low dose oral finasteride which I will do Topically. He said he is open minded to change his mind as more research comes in on this.

You have to understand these surgeons have been using this pill for 10 to 25 years on their patients with good results to stabilize their androgenic alopecia and this is a new thing. So is CB0301.
OMG he really believes the only reason why topical Dutasteride works is because it goes systemic?

I totally understand his point. He works with Finasteride for years, the patients who take it have a better end result etc. But I totally don't understand you. You change your well working regime because a Doctor(who obviously doesn't take anything by himself or doesn't do any research on the topic) just because he says so? I mean yes Dr. Ferreira is a top notch FUE surgeon but probably half of the readers here in this thread have gained more knowledge about topical/oral application of dutasteride/finasteride than him.

This Thread exists for a reason, we get f*****g side effects and it's so important to us that we spend hours online chatting with other guys around the globe. I just would have expected you to stay with your regime and tell him he has no idea what he's talking about, because he obviously isn't. I still like him and are looking forward get my hair done by him tho.
 

georgman

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There are different working mechanisms for hormones, dht is regarded as a paracrine hormone that is produced and used by the body locally , rather than travelling around
So that means there is no reason to worry about systemic DHT travelling to the scalp since we only nuke scalp DHT?
 

Mustang

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OMG he really believes the only reason why topical Dutasteride works is because it goes systemic?

I totally understand his point. He works with Finasteride for years, the patients who take it have a better end result etc. But I totally don't understand you. You change your well working regime because a Doctor(who obviously doesn't take anything by himself or doesn't do any research on the topic) just because he says so? I mean yes Dr. Ferreira is a top notch FUE surgeon but probably half of the readers here in this thread have gained more knowledge about topical/oral application of dutasteride/finasteride than him.

This Thread exists for a reason, we get f*****g side effects and it's so important to us that we spend hours online chatting with other guys around the globe. I just would have expected you to stay with your regime and tell him he has no idea what he's talking about, because he obviously isn't. I still like him and are looking forward get my hair done by him tho.

Like I said, things are evolving and these things are relatively new and I am sure more doctors will hop on this as well as CB0301 if it it's safe and doesn't shut down adrenals.

My reasoning is I am willing to try anything. I recently (past 2 months) had a lot of shedding after 18 months of not losing almost any hair so my mind is wide open.

I am going to give Topical finasteride a try at 0.025% twice a week just to see what kind of serum DHT reduction I get. If I get sides or it's more than the allegedly 25% I will stop. It's a good opportunity to check this out. After that it's CB for 2 months and check adrenal function and sides.

I am extremely interested in research, testing, bloodwork and comparing treatments so for me it's more about that.

And congratulations on choosing him as your surgeon, he is on a different level and the most professional and nicest guy you'll meet. His results are also staggering.
 

georgman

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Like I said, things are evolving and these things are relatively new and I am sure more doctors will hop on this as well as CB0301 if it it's safe and doesn't shut down adrenals.

My reasoning is I am willing to try anything. I recently (past 2 months) had a lot of shedding after 18 months of not losing almost any hair so my mind is wide open.

I am going to give Topical finasteride a try at 0.025% twice a week just to see what kind of serum DHT reduction I get. If I get sides or it's more than the allegedly 25% I will stop. It's a good opportunity to check this out. After that it's CB for 2 months and check adrenal function and sides.

I am extremely interested in research, testing, bloodwork and comparing treatments so for me it's more about that.

And congratulations on choosing him as your surgeon, he is on a different level and the most professional and nicest guy you'll meet. His results are also staggering.
If you do this in the purpose of research, that's totally fine and I highly appreciate that.

So just for better understanding. You try topical Finasteride again because you think topical Dutasteride might not do the job as good as we assume and since Finasteride definitely goes systemic you assume it might work better(if you manage the sides sufficiently)?

Thank you, I had the same feeling when I was in Porto for consultation. He definitely is an Artist and the fact that he worked with Dr. Lorenzo is a big plus too.
 

Mustang

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I am trying Topical Finasteride 0.025% twice a week because I want to confirm or refute the research that it only reduces 25% of serum DHT (which is similar what 0.25% of Topical Dutasteride would reduce). TD reduces 80% scalp DHT at that dosage vs only 50% on Finasteride. So that is the main reason for attempting this. I want to have another alternative since TD is hard to get sometimes. Topical Dutasteride does do the job and I will resume after my finasteride and CB experiment.

The second reason being that Dutasteride inhibits both types of enzymes being one of them critical for allopregnanolone which as you know as great anxiolytic effects and Dutasteride inhibits completely while Finasteride inhibits only partially. I remember having massive anxiety on oral dutasteride.

My ultimate goal is to go on TRT and take the minimum oral or topical finasteride dose to keep my DHT in check, nuke scalp DHT with Topical Dutasteride and wash out scalp T with CB0301 so I am all up for experimenting.

I have had everything done, stem cells, PRP, topicals, research chemicals bla bla bla bla... so that's just me. I like to experiment and learn.
 

losingbattle88

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I am trying Topical Finasteride 0.025% twice a week because I want to confirm or refute the research that it only reduces 25% of serum DHT (which is similar what 0.25% of Topical Dutasteride would reduce). TD reduces 80% scalp DHT at that dosage vs only 50% on Finasteride. So that is the main reason for attempting this. I want to have another alternative since TD is hard to get sometimes. Topical Dutasteride does do the job and I will resume after my finasteride and CB experiment.

The second reason being that Dutasteride inhibits both types of enzymes being one of them critical for allopregnanolone which as you know as great anxiolytic effects and Dutasteride inhibits completely while Finasteride inhibits only partially. I remember having massive anxiety on oral dutasteride.

My ultimate goal is to go on TRT and take the minimum oral or topical finasteride dose to keep my DHT in check, nuke scalp DHT with Topical Dutasteride and wash out scalp T with CB0301 so I am all up for experimenting.

I have had everything done, stem cells, PRP, topicals, research chemicals bla bla bla bla... so that's just me. I like to experiment and learn.

at what month did you experience massive anxiety from oral dutasteride? im 5 months on it feeling 100% normal.
 

corkmeister

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I am trying Topical Finasteride 0.025% twice a week because I want to confirm or refute the research that it only reduces 25% of serum DHT (which is similar what 0.25% of Topical Dutasteride would reduce). TD reduces 80% scalp DHT at that dosage vs only 50% on Finasteride. So that is the main reason for attempting this. I want to have another alternative since TD is hard to get sometimes. Topical Dutasteride does do the job and I will resume after my finasteride and CB experiment.

The second reason being that Dutasteride inhibits both types of enzymes being one of them critical for allopregnanolone which as you know as great anxiolytic effects and Dutasteride inhibits completely while Finasteride inhibits only partially. I remember having massive anxiety on oral dutasteride.

My ultimate goal is to go on TRT and take the minimum oral or topical finasteride dose to keep my DHT in check, nuke scalp DHT with Topical Dutasteride and wash out scalp T with CB0301 so I am all up for experimenting.

I have had everything done, stem cells, PRP, topicals, research chemicals bla bla bla bla... so that's just me. I like to experiment and learn.

What research are you referring to? The study by Caserini et al (Polichem)? They achieved a 50/25% reduction (scalp:serum) after one week of daily application. But rather you're going to apply it twice a week and check levels at the 1 month and 2 month mark to see if the results line up? This doesn't make sense at all to me.

The research doesn't indicate that 0.025% somehow magically only reduces 25% of serum dht in every context. All that study shows it that applying it daily over the course of a week results in a 25% serum reduction, at that specific point in time. So what would you be confirming or refuting?
 

Mustang

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That is exactly what I am trying to do.
If daily application achieved 50/25 then twice a week should hopefully decrease less than 25% serum DHT. So I'm hoping it will be even less but let's see. I can also increase to daily usage on the second month and repeat the blood test after a week or a month.

What doesn't precisely make sense to you?

"The research doesn't indicate that 0.025% somehow magically only reduces 25% of serum dht in every context. All that study shows it that applying it daily over the course of a week results in a 25% serum reduction, at that specific point in time"

Yes. I know.
 

corkmeister

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Because you're trying to replicate/refute the outcome of a study while radically adjusting the parameters of the study. If you're curious about the effects of applying .025% twice a week, I totally get that, but I don't see what the study has to do with it at that point. You're significantly decreasing the frequency (from 7 times a week to 2 times a week) while increasing the duration of the experiment (from 1 week to 1/2 months).

How would this allow you to confirm or refute the finding that applying 0.025% daily for a week results in a 25% serum reduction? And even then, what would it really matter? It's just gonna keep dropping after that first week (or in your case, after the first month), which is exactly the main drawback/shortcoming of the Caserini studies.
 
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