Topical Cetrizine for Hair Loss instead of Finasteride (Propecia)

[casperz]

Ok, thanks anyway. I'm gonna give this a shot. I ordered propylene glycol and cetirizine, should have them in a couple days. My buddy is trying it as well. Gonna try to get some good baseline photos.

Probably go with 600mg/60mL concentration.

I would really like to develop a cream or lotion as i think there is less waste and better penetration than a liquid can provide. Do you know of anybody taking that approach?

The german guys were doing water or PG or Vodka. I've not heard of anyone doing a cream but I agree it might be better. I like the idea
of using Emu oil as a base because I know it's readily absorbed. I think we need a way to get the cetirizine out of the fillers or buy bulk
cetirizine somewhere to be able to do a cream or emu oil. If anyone has any idea's on how to do that or where to buy in bulk that would
be great. I don't see how we can mix it in any base as it is because of the fillers.

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great! more people trying this!!!

Absolutely... the more people that try this the quicker we can get to the optimal treatment regime.

 

[nohawk]

hello... im on my 5 or 6th day of topical cet and have definitely pretty much stopped all shedding. This is the fastest thats ever happened, but I am also having discomfort in my groin area. Could be related or not. I was looking up adverse affects of an antihistamine OD and found "Taking 30 or more pills can lead to heart attack, coma, and death. Symptoms of antihistamine overdose include: agitation, blurred vision, coma, confusion, delirium, diarrhea, drowsiness, dry mouth, flushing of the face, inability to urinate, lack of sweat, fever, motor skill deficits, nausea, rapid heart rate, and unsteadiness." Although I only apply maybe a total of 10 drops on my hairline, I don't know if it could cause any of these effects... I am going to try applying EOD to see if it makes a difference, if so, maybe diluting the solution a little.

 

[what]

The german guys were doing water or PG or Vodka. I've not heard of anyone doing a cream but I agree it might be better. I like the idea
of using Emu oil as a base because I know it's readily absorbed. I think we need a way to get the cetirizine out of the fillers or buy bulk
cetirizine somewhere to be able to do a cream or emu oil. If anyone has any idea's on how to do that or where to buy in bulk that would
be great. I don't see how we can mix it in any base as it is because of the fillers.

Cetirizine is freely soluble in water, ethanol and methanol. So, take a batch of pills, ground them up very fine and add an excess of ethanol or methanol. Shake or vortex for a few minutes and then either let it settle out, or better, centrifuge all the filler crap to the bottom of the vial. Take off all the supernatant (which will contain the drug), transfer to another vial and then evaporate off all the solvent. What you're left with should be drug minus filler junk. You could use the powder you recover to add to a base.

Ideally, it would be better to buy pure cetirizine powder. So if anyone knows a source that would make it a lot easier.

 

[Sparky4444]

Cetirizine is freely soluble in water, ethanol and methanol. So, take a batch of pills, ground them up very fine and add an excess of ethanol or methanol. Shake or vortex for a few minutes and then either let it settle out, or better, centrifuge all the filler crap to the bottom of the vial. Take off all the supernatant (which will contain the drug), transfer to another vial and then evaporate off all the solvent. What you're left with should be drug minus filler junk. You could use the powder you recover to add to a base.

Ideally, it would be better to buy pure cetirizine powder. So if anyone knows a source that would make it a lot easier.

So what is happening if you crush the tablets and just dissolve them into water??? Shouldn't that be enough??

 

[zeroes]

I don't know if this is legit or not

m.alibaba.com/products/cetirizine.html

Google cetirizine powder

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Guys a quick FYI group buys are not allowed on this forum however this stuff should be cheap so there should be no reason for it.

 

[Nickel]

Guys,

Why do we need to add PG and ethanol to the mix?

 

[form]

i dont know that you need to. but people do it to help absorption into the skin.

 

[casperz]

i dont know that you need to. but people do it to help absorption into the skin.

That's what I've always heard about the PG in minoxidil. I also know Emu oil is very easily absorbed.

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I don't know if this is legit or not

m.alibaba.com/products/cetirizine.html

Google cetirizine powder

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Guys a quick FYI group buys are not allowed on this forum however this stuff should be cheap so there should be no reason for it.

Looks like it's about $55 to $60 per kilo. At a rate of 600mg per month a kilo would be enough for 138 years if my math is right. I'd order a
kilo if we can find a good supplier.

 

[zeroes]

Does anyone know if there is any danger of emu oil destroying the cet powder?

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F it, I've ordered 2 bottles of Aller-TecT 10mg (Cetirizine Hcl/ Antihistamine) 365 Tablets, it was Aud$63 including shipping.

I'm only planning to use it on my temples.

Will the cet be sitting at the top of the container or at the bottom? I presume I need to use destilled water and not regular tap water?

 

[Nashville Hairline]

Are people able to buy this (Zyrtec) over the counter without a prescription?

 

[form]

Are people able to buy this (Zyrtec) over the counter without a prescription?

yeah

 

[casperz]

Are people able to buy this (Zyrtec) over the counter without a prescription?

I bought this: http://www.amazon.com/Kirkland-Sign...ie=UTF8&qid=1348362565&sr=8-2&keywords=zyrtec and it makes a six month supply of a topical at 600mg per month.

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Does anyone know if there is any danger of emu oil destroying the cet powder? Seems like you
would want to use distilled water so when it's gone, all that is left is the Cet.

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F it, I've ordered 2 bottles of Aller-TecT 10mg (Cetirizine Hcl/ Antihistamine) 365 Tablets, it was Aud$63 including shipping.

I'm only planning to use it on my temples.

Will the cet be sitting at the top of the container or at the bottom? I presume I need to use destilled water and not regular tap water?

That is only about $10 per month so it's cheaper than minoxidil at US prices.

I doubt the Emu oil would be a problem but I'm no chemist. I used tap water and I draw off the top leaving the sediment at the bottom. My thinking is the fillers that are non solvable in water are at the bottom. I think the German guys filtered the sediment out in some cases.

Do you have a plan on how you are going to get the Cet out of the water so you can mix it with Emu oil?

 

[zeroes]

No idea I'm planning to experiment first. I dropped 1 nurofen tab into boiling water last night and everything stayed at the bottom. Im going to drop another one into the boiling water that has cooled down and see what happens. I didnt crush the tab.

It looks like everything in nurofen stays in the bottom, but it sounds like cet is different?

 

[form]

FDA's dissolution method:

http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/drugsatfda_docs/nda/2010/022578Orig1s000ClinPharmR.pdf

The following dissolution specification will be the Agency approved dissolution
specification using the following dissolution method for the Zyrtec® (cetirizine HCl)
Orally Disintegrating Tablets (10 mg):
Q = in 15 minutes

Apparatus: USP Apparatus 2 (paddle), 50 rpm
Medium: pH 6.5 phosphate buffer
Volume: 900 ml
Sampling Time: 15 minutes
Analytical method: Isocratic HPLC method utilizing UV detection at 230 nm

Haha, I don't have the equipment or chemicals for that. Unless someone here/German forum has access to a laboratory, I think it would be much easier/cost effective to buy the bulk cetirize powder.

:uglylol:

 

[zeroes]

I don't think using boiling water is the way to go as it might destroy cet, I was only experimenting.

 

[form]

I don't think using boiling water is the way to go as it might destroy cet, I was only experimenting.

This paper is pretty interesting. I did run across this:

Cetirizine HCl is a white or almost white powder that is freely soluble in water, practically insoluble in acetone and in methylene chloride. It has a pH of 1.2 to 1.8 and a relatively high melting range of 214°C to 221°C.

It is probably okay to use boiling water.

As an aside:

Cetirizine HCl is apparently bitter in taste. Casperz, I'm not sure if the Kirkland brand is flavored, but if you taste the liquid you're using, you may be able to confirm whether or not it has that bitter taste.

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Mannitol
Microcrystalline Cellulose
Sucralose
Crospovidone (Polyvinylpyrrolidone)
Colloidal Silicon Dioxide
Sodium Bicarbonate
Anhydrous Citric Acid
Magnesium Stearate

 

[zeroes]

Nurofen dissolved in boiling water much better than the cooled down version.

 

[Nashville Hairline]

I bought this: http://www.amazon.com/Kirkland-Sign...ie=UTF8&qid=1348362565&sr=8-2&keywords=zyrtec and it makes a six month supply of a topical at 600mg per month.

Thanks. I just bought 30 tablets for 10eur (about $13) in a local pharmacy today. Not bad.

Now onto finding a decent solution for the crushed tablets. I tried one 10mg tablet in one of my vials of Fluridil (which is Isopropyl alcohol and Grape Seed Extract) but it didn't dissolve at all so thats a non-starter. I have also just tried with water and while it does appear to dissolve better (it is still somewhat cloudy) there is that residue at the botom. Hopefully it is just the film coating of the tablet as you say. Propylene glycol is just too greasy for me to consider as an option.

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OK, this seems to confirm cetirizine dihydrochloride is soluble in water

http://www.chemicalland21.com/lifescience/phar/CETIRIZINE%20DIHYDROCHLORIDE.htm

The hydrochloride salt of cetirizine is a white powder freely soluble in water, practically insoluble in acetone and dichloromethane; administered orally.

 

[casperz]

Thanks. I just bought 30 tablets for 10eur (about $13) in a local pharmacy today. Not bad.

Now onto finding a decent solution for the crushed tablets. I tried one 10mg tablet in one of my vials of Fluridil (which is Isopropyl alcohol and Grape Seed Extract) but it didn't dissolve at all so thats a non-starter. I have also just tried with water and while it does appear to dissolve better (it is still somewhat cloudy) there is that residue at the botom. Hopefully it is just the film coating of the tablet as you say. Propylene glycol is just too greasy for me to consider as an option.

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OK, this seems to confirm cetirizine dihydrochloride is soluble in water

http://www.chemicalland21.com/lifescience/phar/CETIRIZINE DIHYDROCHLORIDE.htm

The guys in the German forum seem to think the Cet dissolves completely in water and the remaining sediment is the filler from the tablet. We need a way to get the cet out of the water so we can add it to Emu/PG/etc. The water based solution is working but I think an Emu or PG based solution would allow even better absorption.

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This paper is pretty interesting. I did run across this:



It is probably okay to use boiling water.

As an aside:

Cetirizine HCl is apparently bitter in taste. Casperz, I'm not sure if the Kirkland brand is flavored, but if you taste the liquid you're using, you may be able to confirm whether or not it has that bitter taste.

- - - Updated - - - (Other crap within these pills. Will check solubility of each ingredient later...)

Mannitol
Microcrystalline Cellulose
Sucralose
Crospovidone (Polyvinylpyrrolidone)
Colloidal Silicon Dioxide
Sodium Bicarbonate
Anhydrous Citric Acid
Magnesium Stearate

I'll taste the water tonight and report back.

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FDA's dissolution method:

http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/drugsatfda_docs/nda/2010/022578Orig1s000ClinPharmR.pdf



Haha, I don't have the equipment or chemicals for that. Unless someone here/German forum has access to a laboratory, I think it would be much easier/cost effective to buy the bulk cetirize powder.

:uglylol:

If we can find a good supplier for Cet a kilo at a time for around $60 that would be the best way to go. I'm looking at Cet as a stop gap anyway till something stronger/better at suppressing PGD2 is released.

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To add to the science I took a sharpie and placed a dot on my scalp. I don't know how long the mark will last but hopefully I can
use it as a landmark for a week or two to see any changes in the hair around the dot. I took 8 pictures from each position around
the mark. Here is one of them with the dot in the upper left.

 

[form]

The guys in the German forum seem to think the Cet dissolves completely in water and the remaining sediment is the filler from the tablet. We need a way to get the cet out of the water so we can add it to Emu/PG/etc. The water based solution is working but I think an Emu or PG based solution would allow even better absorption.

From the reading I've done, I tend to agree with that. The sediment on the bottom is most likely the Microcrystalline Cellulose. So, we should probably determine the molecular size of cetirizine and find an appropriate filter. (catch extraneous ingredients but allow cetirizine to pass... then allow vehicle to evaporate)

I took some pictures last night for a baseline and have started applying the cet to half of my scalp. I'm using isopropyl alcohol for a vehicle right now, but that may change in the next few days. I also have ethanol (everclear), eucalyptus oil, and some test tubes at my disposal.