Topical Cetrizine for Hair Loss instead of Finasteride (Propecia)

[suspicioussandwich]

Going to give this a shot in a few weeks

Greetings. I've been lurking on the forums for a year or so and decided to finally post.

I'm very curious about topical cetirizine and want to give it a shot.

Hairloss state: Between NW2–3 (pictures forthcoming)

What I've been using:

1.25 mg of Finasteride 1x/day (May 2012–Present)
Minoxidil foam 2x/daily (July 2012–Present)
Ketaconazole shampoo 2–3x/week (January 2011–Present)

Since I started the finasteride and minoxodil combo, I've had no significant hairloss. After about a month of shedding, my hairline has been stable. I'm extremely grateful for this. However, I haven't noticed any significant hair regrowth yet. Some small vellus hairs, but it's really hard to tell since I have longer hair.

Now, I want to see if I can start having hair regrowth. And I hope cetirizine is the answer.

I'll post pictures of before I started finasteride and before I start cetirizine so it can be well documented.

I'm currently in the process of moving, so I won't start this until after the holidays.

Looking forward to sharing my progress with you all.

 

[marku]

If it worked there would already be trials ages ago for it within pharmaceutical industry. They actually did studies with way stronger pgd2 blockers and even they aren't given the results these supposedly German sites were showing.

Which studies?!

 

[Conpecia]

Guys I'm also hesitant to get too excited about Cet long term. I've been monitoring this thread, the German thread, and I even started a thread at baldtruthtaIk that has several people trying it. My worry is that the German forum was going crazy over this a couple months ago but now it's completely dead, they said it never developed beyond those tiny vellus hairs we're all seeing. I have only seen one person with cosmetically significant regrowth out of them all and that is baldnessadness.

That being said, it's still early and there is still the possibility of Cet working like finasteride in that it stops further loss or at least slows it. But I'm not optimistic about it making a big difference as far as regrowth.

 

[boobyinspector]

But how?, if the pgd2 thing is just a couple of months old... and besides nobody tried the topical route before...

Which studies?!

It's not it's been studied before. 1 Study released in March published results that were very promising. There have been other studies with prostaglandins. This includes studying a drug called Xalatan which lowers PGD2. It showed that it induced hair growth.

Surv Ophthalmol. 2002 Aug;47 Suppl 1:S185-202.
Prostaglandin-induced hair growth.

Johnstone MA, Albert DM.
Source

Glaucoma Consultants Northwest, Swedish Medical Center, Seattle, WA 98104, USA.

Abstract

Latanoprost, used clinically in the treatment of glaucoma, induces growth of lashes and ancillary hairs around the eyelids. Manifestations include greater thickness and length of lashes, additional lash rows, conversion of vellus to terminal hairs in canthal areas as well as in regions adjacent to lash rows. In conjunction with increased growth, increased pigmentation occurs. Vellus hairs of the lower eyelids also undergo increased growth and pigmentation. Brief latanoprost therapy for 2-17 days (3-25.5 microg total dosage) induced findings comparable to chronic therapy in five patients. Latanoprost reversed alopecia of the eyelashes in one patient. Laboratory experiments with latanoprost have demonstrated stimulation of hair growth in mice and in the balding scalp of the stumptailed macaque, a primate that demonstrates androgenetic alopecia. The increased number of visible lashes is consistent with the ability of latanoprost to induce anagen (the growth phase) in telogen (resting) follicles while inducing hypertrophic changes in the involved follicles. The increased length of lashes is consistent with the ability of latanoprost to prolong the anagen phase of the hair cycle. Correlation with laboratory studies suggests that initiation and completion of latanoprost hair growth effects occur very early in anagen and the likely target is the dermal papilla.

You guys are thinking of the march study in particular (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22440736?dopt=Abstract&holding=npg). . But while PGD2 itself does have merit a company that can patent cetirizine for this use would jump into clinical trials right away if it thought there was promise in it. The original producer of zyrtec also has rights to first patent. The company could get a patent granted easily for this use. Just like proscar's patent expired they were able to jump on a hair patent at 1mg. It just means that the drug is useless if it hasn't already undergone studies. Most company researchers know before a study is published what is currently happening in the world of science. They even have scientists reviewing a lot of the studies. While pgd2 inhibition may be useful if correctly produced, I think Zyrtec is a dud. That's only my opinion though so don't let me stop you from doing anything.

 

[Chromeo]

Of course I wouldn't say I'm sure Cet is 100% the answer but the results I'm seeing with it are undoubtedly the best I've seen yet. I'm definitely sticking with this. If it continues to halt hairloss and show a measure of regrowth even in slick bald areas, then this could be great for tiding us over until a new treatment along these lines hits the shelves. I see it as getting a little head-start, so to speak.

 

[soma_72]

Yeah! fukc boobyinspector!!!

 

[nohawk]

Oh man, if this works and doesn't give you limp dick like finasteride do, I could use it eight times a day if needed, I don' even care about somnolence, I'm gonna start right from january

Anti-histamines are a major cause of libido loss and limp dick, orally and topically. It messes with your sperm, which is why I had testicular pain and atrophy when I was applying the amounts Casperz was applying. I apply maybe 1/10th of that now. Everyone has to just adjust this stuff based on their own reactions, if you are too tired, unfocused, having nightmares etc. just dillute your solution.. that just means too much of it is getting into your blood which is not necessary, shouldn't affect the effectiveness on your hair.

 

[cthulhu]

topical cetirizine

so I have been using a topical for the past week which consists of cetirizine with isopropryl alcohol(91%), water, and acetyl carnitine. So far, I have noticed some vellous fuzz around my temples. It could just be my imagination, however time will tell. I will be sure to post updates weekly on my status. I am currently not on propecia or minoxidil but have been using nizoral with little success.

 

[Diamond Dave]

It is definitely effective though, at least in my case. I'm now spending a lot of time looking in the mirror every day, thinking "damn, this is actually working!"

Wow Chromeo. You too!
I actually like the mirror now... lol

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If it worked there would already be trials ages ago for it within pharmaceutical industry. They actually did studies with way stronger pgd2 blockers and even they aren't given the results these supposedly German sites were showing.

Well booby can you link us to just one study where big pharma did trials on topical Cet and it failed?

Forget your reports on "way stronger pgd2 blockers", just Cet.

Also, did you visit the German site for yourself and translate what they were saying or are you just repeating what you read at other US sites from posters like yourself who haven't tried Cet themselves.

Do you think that I, Casperz or Chromeo have a mental disorder?

 

[cuprous]

Anti-histamines are a major cause of libido loss and limp dick, orally and topically.

I am skeptical. I already went through and posted my calculations for likely systemic absorption through the skin based on Pfizer experiments with rabbits. My conclusion was that our blood serum would have 2% or so of the concentration of a 10mg oral dose. Do you or own math but this notion of "excruciating testicular pain" seems ... remarkable. Not calling you a liar, just can't see how it's possible.

- - - Updated - - -

Guys I'm also hesitant to get too excited about Cet long term. I've been monitoring this thread, the German thread, and I even started a thread at baldtruthtaIk that has several people trying it. My worry is that the German forum was going crazy over this a couple months ago but now it's completely dead, they said it never developed beyond those tiny vellus hairs we're all seeing. I have only seen one person with cosmetically significant regrowth out of them all and that is baldnessadness.

That being said, it's still early and there is still the possibility of Cet working like finasteride in that it stops further loss or at least slows it. But I'm not optimistic about it making a big difference as far as regrowth.

Sure, valid points. Keep in mind though that a lot of people were using alcohol in the mix. Someone allegedly posted a study or some reasoning showing that that could nix any benefit. If anybody knows what I'm referring to and can point me to it I would be grateful.

 

[cthulhu]

I think you need alcohol because it acts as a carrier. I doubt cetirizine would be able to enter the skin without it.

 

[soma_72]

I think you need alcohol because it acts as a carrier. I doubt cetirizine would be able to enter the skin without it.

Be careful about the alcohol, someone posted a study which showed that alcohol degrades cetirizine or something like that...

 

[boobyinspector]

Do you think that I, Casperz or Chromeo have a mental disorder?

No I think you are seeing hair that gives absolutely no coverage so it makes no difference. You should have seen my forehead when I was taking minoxidil. I mean at close up with the camera it looked like it was loaded with hair, but the reality was you couldn't see squat. Now Finasteride, that's the shiznit! There's none with CET obviously. Another good reason it would never be studied is because it's too strong an anti-histamine. I wouldn't touch it for that reason alone. I actually do have a mental disorder and study neurology. Anti-histamines are not to be played with unless you truly need them for allergies. You can downregulate the receptor heavily which will cause problems in the end. While cetirizine itself has a low anticholinergic profile it still has the ability to induce weight gain like any antihistamine. It also is supposed to be one of the least sedating of the antihistamines yet people are reporting sedation with topical use. The absorption of the drug is increased significantly through topical application as the delivery mechanism not only bypasses the gut, first pass liver and as such increases bioavailability. This is not something to be playing around with. Also people are getting horribly red and problematic scalp issues. I say be careful because vanity may bite you back in the ***. I recall Minoxidil use bit me in the *** by destroying my skin. Luckily stopping reversed most side effects but not many are so lucky.

 

[Sparky4444]

Now Finasteride, that's the shiznit! .

yeah...that proves you have a mental disorder -- pop finasteride for the rest of your life??? That crap is way more dangerous than taking CET topically....

...I have extremely sensitive skin...minoxidil with PPG kills me...Cet/Water is nothing...no side effects what-so-over....

...and if CET alone can at least halt hair-loss, than giddyup! That's a start and way more preferable than popping finasteride every day.

- - - Updated - - -

Anti-histamines are a major cause of libido loss and limp dick, orally and topically. It messes with your sperm, which is why I had testicular pain and atrophy when I was applying the amounts Casperz was applying. I apply maybe 1/10th of that now. Everyone has to just adjust this stuff based on their own reactions, if you are too tired, unfocused, having nightmares etc. just dillute your solution.. that just means too much of it is getting into your blood which is not necessary, shouldn't affect the effectiveness on your hair.

...hummmm...and you know this for a fact??? This all experimental right now and everything is a discovery process at this point....yet you're speaking in absolutes???

Don't listen to this crap everybody...

 

[boobyinspector]

yeah...that proves you have a mental disorder -- pop finasteride for the rest of your life??? That crap is way more dangerous than taking CET topically....

...I have extremely sensitive skin...minoxidil with PPG kills me...Cet/Water is nothing...no side effects what-so-over....

...and if CET alone can at least halt hair-loss, than giddyup! That's a start and way more preferable than popping finasteride every day.

- - - Updated - - -



...hummmm...and you know this for a fact??? This all experimental right now and everything is a discovery process at this point....yet you're speaking in absolutes???

Don't listen to this crap everybody...

You obviously do not understand science and the endocrine system. Other than scare tactics from people. Yah it may have an impact on SOME minor people where it has a significant response but DHT is not responsible for sexual side effects, it never will be. Nor does it affect neurosteroids like people have speculated. DHT itself is used in the brain in small amounts, you'd have to use Dutasteride to truly impact it, but yes some people do get impacted with finasteride but once again minority. My DHT is still low normal and I'm growing an insane amount of hair. Don't hate. You haven't dealt with real sexual side effects till you've taken an SSRI.

 

[Diamond Dave]

yeah...that proves you have a mental disorder -- pop finasteride for the rest of your life??? That crap is way more dangerous than taking CET topically....

...hummmm...and you know this for a fact??? This all experimental right now and everything is a discovery process at this point....yet you're speaking in absolutes???

Don't listen to this crap everybody...

Exactly Sparx... I laughed my laptop on to the floor when I read booby's comment about the supposed dangers of topical Cet but go ahead and pop the famous side-effects free finasteride. That's classic. lol

 

[Conpecia]

Sure, valid points. Keep in mind though that a lot of people were using alcohol in the mix. Someone allegedly posted a study or some reasoning showing that that could nix any benefit. If anybody knows what I'm referring to and can point me to it I would be grateful.

Yeah that's right. I can't remember where that was but we've since then weeded out the alcohol vehicles and most people are on water and cet only. I really hope this just stops further loss. There hasn't been enough time to tell unfortunately, but again if this can hold us over until Histogen or something like that I'll be absolutely satisfied.

Have any of you guys NOT experienced a reduction in shedding (after that initial shed)? Has anybody taken Cet with water and had absolutely nothing happen?

The thread at BTT has died down a lot, seems like HairLossTalk.com is where the activity is now.

I'd also like to have any general updates you guys are willing to throw out. Thanks.

 

[boobyinspector]

Exactly Sparx... I laughed my laptop on to the floor when I read booby's comment about the supposed dangers of topical Cet but go ahead and pop the famous side-effects free finasteride. That's classic. lol

*yawn* Gotta love denial. Just because you happened to be in the minority who didn't respond to finasteride must make you grumpy. I had issues with minoxidil but as an intelligent person I do not discredit it as it works for the majority.

 

[cthulhu]

can someone please post the study demonstrating that alcohol degrades cetirizine to a point of innefectiveness. Without a carrier, I doubt the effectiveness of cetirizine topically.

 

[soma_72]

can someone please post the study demonstrating that alcohol degrades cetirizine to a point of innefectiveness. Without a carrier, I doubt the effectiveness of cetirizine topically.

http://www.hairlosstalk.com/interac...Degradation-of-Cetirizine-in-alcohol-vehicles!