Topical Cetirizine Is Still Worth A Try ?

[whatevr]

Interesting study, thank you

Everything working against male pattern baldness seems to destroy androgens levels. Like i said on RPF, it's always a trade between our hair or our balls. So tired

Because fundamental problem is lack of anti-androgens in the follicle. Every way we try to side-step this problem usually ends up coming back to this in the end.

After a while you will notice that everything that works is either estrogenic, anti-androgenic or cucks you in some other way.

 

[whatevr]

I'll need to look into it more, but I've seen some studies that imply PGD2 stimulates testosterone production.

"Production of PGD2 was indeed proven in freshly isolated hamster Leydig cells (2), which also respond to PGD2 by increased testosterone production."

It probably depends on the cell type and how it deals with ROS:

Prostaglandin D2 Uses Components of ROS Signaling to Enhance Testosterone Production in Keratinocytes - PubMed

Elevated levels of prostaglandin D2 (PGD2) have been shown to be present in the bald scalp of androgenic alopecia (Androgenetic Alopecia) patients and to functionally inhibit hair growth. However, its precise mechanism in Androgenetic Alopecia has yet to be clearly defined. Although testosterone plays a critical role in the...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Charger]

Just theorizing, but if you could completely inhibit PGD2 in combination with TRT to dodge any effects it may have due to lowered endogenous testosterone production, you should have a relatively side effect free way to halt hair loss. In theory.

No idea if exogenous androgens would offset the PGD2 inhibition somehow. Obviously going on TRT to make a treatment tolerable isn't ideal, but if it works, it's better than transitioning and if hair is that important to the person, its probably worth it.

Maybe someone already on TRT like @Canuto could experiment with OC or TM and report their experience.

 

[StayPositive]

Just theorizing, but if you could completely inhibit PGD2 in combination with TRT to dodge any effects it may have due to lowered endogenous testosterone production, you should have a relatively side effect free way to halt hair loss. In theory.

No idea if exogenous androgens would offset the PGD2 inhibition somehow. Obviously going on TRT to make a treatment tolerable isn't ideal, but if it works, it's better than transitioning and if hair is that important to the person, its probably worth it.

Maybe someone already on TRT like @Canuto could experiment with OC or TM and report their experience.

This is exactly what i think. In theory, this protocol should be very good for guys on trt

But we don't really know, maybe even the positive effects of androgens (well being, sex drive, voice, muscle mass ect) are mediated through pgd2 , since pgd2 seems very tied to androgens

But it will always be a better solution than 5ar inhibitors, of course

 

[Charger]

Yeah, I can't claim to know every function PGD2 has in the body, especially since it hasn't been studied much in general.

It's clear this stuff is all linked in some way. For example, PGE2 upregulates aromatase activity, so who's to say if it goes systemic that it can't increase aromatase within the body and cause estrogenic side effects?

If PGD2 + TRT could provide a solution to halt hair loss with the worst side effect being reduced sleep that could be offset with either pro-GABA or melatonin supplements, I'd personally be satisfied. I've already been toying with the idea of going on TRT at my age anyway, so it would be interesting to try this out if no one else does by then.

I know Derek experimented with PGD2 inhibitors and said he didn't notice anything, but that's only one anecdote.

 

[waynakyo]

No one is getting itchy scalp from Ceterezine? It seems I am. Waking up in the middle of the night.
Even if I shampoo before I go to bed.

 

[whatevr]

Yeah, I can't claim to know every function PGD2 has in the body, especially since it hasn't been studied much in general.

It's clear this stuff is all linked in some way. For example, PGE2 upregulates aromatase activity, so who's to say if it goes systemic that it can't increase aromatase within the body and cause estrogenic side effects?

If PGD2 + TRT could provide a solution to halt hair loss with the worst side effect being reduced sleep that could be offset with either pro-GABA or melatonin supplements, I'd personally be satisfied. I've already been toying with the idea of going on TRT at my age anyway, so it would be interesting to try this out if no one else does by then.

I know Derek experimented with PGD2 inhibitors and said he didn't notice anything, but that's only one anecdote.

It would be really funny if PGD2 / PGE2 turn out to just be a roundabout way of lowering androgens / increasing estrogen. Wouldn't surprise me since it all seems to come down to that in the end, anyway.

Though obviously it can't be entirely as bad since I haven't heard of anyone getting gyno from Seti and PGE2, but that could just be due to the smaller magnitude of effect than directly inhibiting/increasing these hormones, since we know the prostaglandin protocol is generally also less effective than AA's & E2.

 

[sonictemples]

I know a lot of people who used seti and swore by it but now most of them are bald or back to circle one

 

[whatevr]

I know a lot of people who used seti and swore by it but now most of them are bald or back to circle one

Seti is not PGD2.

Disproving Setipiprant (which is garbage) does not disprove PGD2.

If you want to be honest about the efficacy of PGD2 inhibition take a look at TM30089 (though you won't find any trials on it).

 

[Charger]

It would be really funny if PGD2 / PGE2 turn out to just be a roundabout way of lowering androgens / increasing estrogen

I've suspected that for awhile, that there's probably an 'inverse' relationship of some sort. You manipulate prostaglandins and they influence androgen/estrogen balance and vice versa.

I know a lot of people who used seti and swore by it but now most of them are bald or back to circle one

Well, pegasus claims ramatroban halted his shedding:

I will say this about it. I don't think shedding is necessarily indicative of a treatment working or not, but nothing has ever slowed my shedding like ramatroban. That stuff brought my shedding to a screeching halt.

Maybe he could expound more on his experience, but I'd say it's a pretty big win if you can halt hair loss regardless of androgen load in the body without turning yourself into a eunuch, especially if you catch it early. That's half the battle won, next is just finding growth agonists that you can tolerate.

 

[sonictemples]

Pegasus uses tons of things including antiandrogens.

 

[sonictemples]

Seti is not PGD2.

Disproving Setipiprant (which is garbage) does not disprove PGD2.

If you want to be honest about the efficacy of PGD2 inhibition take a look at TM30089 (though you won't find any trials on it).

Did I say that I disproved PGD2?

 

[StayPositive]

It would be really funny if PGD2 / PGE2 turn out to just be a roundabout way of lowering androgens / increasing estrogen. Wouldn't surprise me since it all seems to come down to that in the end, anyway.

Though obviously it can't be entirely as bad since I haven't heard of anyone getting gyno from Seti and PGE2, but that could just be due to the smaller magnitude of effect than directly inhibiting/increasing these hormones, since we know the prostaglandin protocol is generally also less effective than AA's & E2.

It's likely the case

I heard someone had gyno from oral castor oil.

Pge2 is involved in estrogen production/conversion, it increases aromatase expression:

Systemic levels of estrogens and PGE2 synthesis in relation to postmenopausal breast cancer risk

Prostaglandin E[2] (PGE[2] ) induces aromatase expression in adipose tissue leading to increased estrogen production that may promote the development and progression of breast cancer. However, few studies have simultaneously investigated systemic levels ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Evidence that inflammation promotes estradiol synthesis in human cerebellum during early childhood - Translational Psychiatry

Discovering and characterizing critical and sensitive periods in brain development is essential for unraveling the myriad variables that impact disease risk. In previous work, we identified a critical period in cerebellar development in the rat that depends upon an intrinsic gene expression...

www.nature.com

Estradiol-17β, prostaglandin E2 (PGE2) and the prostaglandin E2 receptor are involved in PGE2 positive feedback loop in the porcine endometrium

Before implantation, the porcine endometrium and trophoblast synthesize elevated amounts of luteoprotective prostaglandin E[2] (PGE[2] ). We hypothesized that embryo signal, estradiol-17β (E[2] ) and PGE[2] modulate expression of key enzymes ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Charger]

Pegasus uses tons of things including antiandrogens.

This was before he started his current regimen.

 

[sonictemples]

A user here called RU Serious used it for a while still haven't updated on the matter

 

[sonictemples]

This was before he started his current regimen.

So is everything else a tool for regrowth? @pegasus2

 

[whatevr]

It's likely the case

I heard someone had gyno from oral castor oil.

Very plausible, happens to me too after a few days (wouldn't call it gyno though, not like you will grow breasts - but nipples sensitive), though I chalk it up to lingering low DHT and having still not fully recovered my 5-AR activity after Finasteride.

'Normal' people probably shouldn't feel it.

FWIW I just tried topical Cetirizine for the first time today as well - kinda drowsy, mild headache, and just lowered awareness/sedation in general. In keeping with the tune of me getting side effects from damn near everything.

 

[blub10]

I used Bimatoprost which is a PGF2a Anologue and it caused low libido