The Truth About Follica, Need Help Please

[GiveMeAccessToMyAccount]

Even if it isn't I wouldn't put my hopes too much on it as the 100 hairs per cm2 they are boasting is for both terminal and vellus hairs with the terminal count being 1/4 of that number i.e 25 terminal hairs per cm2 which at best will make you look like a diffuse thinner.

How long was the study that showed 100 hairs per cm2 and showed that 3/4 was vellus hairs? Like does this mean that the vellus hairs are the only thing you get over a prolonged used? Or did they say that continued use will turn the 3/4 vellus hairs into terminal hairs? I mean the "only thing" aside from the 1/4 terminal hairs.

Thanks.

 

[GiveMeAccessToMyAccount]

Yeah, of course it's not something to complain about. Vellus hairs are better than no hairs, but there's a big difference between terminal and vellus. Regardless, there's no one here who won't be doing it.

Tell me about it, I have an NW0 hairline of vellus hairs made by overdosing on minoxidil. At the end of the day, it's cosmetically insignificant because it can only be seen up close and needless to say it can not be styled and doesn't even give a stubble look or anything like that lol.

If Follica can turn my already vellus hairs into terminal that would be great. If it can give me more vellus hairs so I can keep for future treatments that are good for vellus hairs, yeah fine too. I'll take anything.

 

[Pavi]

According to the website this is in phase III

http://puretechhealth.com/pipeline.php

 

[Pavi]

http://www.follicabio.com/

Follica's website looks super legit

 

[That Guy]

According to the website this is in phase III

http://puretechhealth.com/pipeline.php

It does not, actually. This is the same status it was in a year ago.

Rather, it shows that it has completed phase II as treatments that have begun phase III, as per their chart, will have the 3rd block filled to some degree.

 

[hanginginthewire]

What can we look forward to That Guy? I know you don't have a crystal ball but you seem to monitor things very closely and lately it seems like everything is sounding like it's around 10 years away. Surely there's something promising sooner than that? I started reading about hair loss research in 2016 and there was all this triumphalist talk of "best year ever for hair loss research" etc. but lately it seems like the same old incremental "we'll see" or such and such "could be a significant breakthrough."

I thought during last year's excitement that a functional cure by 2020 wasn't out of the question.....

 

[H]

Except we know it isn't.



Statements like this are interesting

Because over in the RepliCel thread, where Occulus said that maintenance wouldn't be enough to justify a treatment coming to market since most guys choose to do nothing if it doesn't provide much regrowth, he was met with widespread disagreement.

In threads like this, where we are dealing with something that (considering past experiments relevance) can grow cosmetically significant amounts of hair, we have people saying they wouldn't bother with it. Lastly, no one really knows what the actual number of hairs it can grow is and are failing to consider any potential repeatedly of the treatment.

and yet we have people getting excited over Samumed's dismal results.

I guess the way I see it I want hair I can play with style do everything I used before this affliction, look the way I used to before this condition. That's what I'm looking for in a treatment. I don't want to have to pretend I have hair adjust it so it looks thick I just want it to be thick. I already shave my head but I don't want to spend money on something that's going to get me to the halfway mark of hair loss I want the whole head of hair not a regrown hair here and see scalp everywhere. As I've said I'm diffuse so I don't actually know if these 25 hair (if that is indeed turns out to be the conclusion) will do much good unless I have at least 50 per square cm and I have no way of telling that. What success would a guy slick nw4 get with 25 hairs per cm squared to fill in those norwoods would that be enough for him?

failing to consider any potential repeatedly of the treatment

This is actually a really good point I didn't think of that. All the things I've said above are relative to that 25 terminal hair deal so when the actual data comes out I will adjust my opinion.

 

[Jay2016]

Hey Guys,

I posted a recent thread in the wrong section with respect to Follica's phase 3 update. I check the puretech website pipeline quite frequently and it has 100 percent changed in terms of its position. One member mentioned that it has always been in the same position (slightly into the phase 3 stage) but this is not entirely correct. About a year ago when Follica started to announce a lot of their data this was the case, however they did revert back and put their progress strictly on the phase two element of the timeline (not even slightly into the phase 3 compartment). However, I checked this again recently and the ticker has moved - whether this is an indication that they have initiated their final trial who knows? Logistically it makes sense as they stated they would be looking to conduct this trial around this particular date! Fingers crossed

 

[Baldybald1]

No it's not only dermarolling and minoxidil, it's combined with other treatments according to Dr Dhurat.its likely to be combined with PRP maybe?!

 

[That Guy]

What can we look forward to That Guy? I know you don't have a crystal ball but you seem to monitor things very closely and lately it seems like everything is sounding like it's around 10 years away. Surely there's something promising sooner than that? I started reading about hair loss research in 2016 and there was all this triumphalist talk of "best year ever for hair loss research" etc. but lately it seems like the same old incremental "we'll see" or such and such "could be a significant breakthrough."

I thought during last year's excitement that a functional cure by 2020 wasn't out of the question.....

I think that the nearest options (given their trial status) are Follica and Shiseido; in the latter's case, we can't be sure that they will actually offer the treatment to foreigners. Both should be on the market within the next 3 years unless they run into some major problem, but I doubt that since they're funded by big companies. I used to be unconcerned with it, but I do believe Follica has serious potential to be the most relevant treatment to people in the 25 - 40 age bracket, personally.

I do think that Tsuji, L'Oreal or TissUse are going to crack the code on hair multiplication and I'd even believe predictions for this to be out "in five years" (at least in Japan), but I do think it will likely not be a realistic option for the majority for quite some time.

I find that trinity's work fascinating and do believe it will be a reality in the near future, but I wouldn't exactly say we should "look forward" to it for the purposes of being treated with it, because we may be disappointed.

 

[Spanishboy97]

Any guess/ideas about price?

 

[mr_robot]

How long was the study that showed 100 hairs per cm2 and showed that 3/4 was vellus hairs? Like does this mean that the vellus hairs are the only thing you get over a prolonged used? Or did they say that continued use will turn the 3/4 vellus hairs into terminal hairs? I mean the "only thing" aside from the 1/4 terminal hairs.

Thanks.

Follica have n't released any studies, the only study they have referenced is the Indian dermarolling one so their claims are just claims. Now it could be that these numbers are just pulled out of the air but normally marketing stuff will give you the best case results, if those other 75 hairs would go terminal they'd be bragging about it. Personally I don't have much faith in this potential treatment, it may be useful for people who are slick bald and have no donor hair and are willing to accept some semblence of density but I'm not expecting miracles.

 

[mr_robot]

Why does it matter if they're terminal or vellus? Gail made it clear histogen could turn vellus hairs terminal, and it's likely that's the hope of what replicel's treatment helps with as well... any regrowth in my eyes is fantastic, and I'm sure right around the time this is released there will be other treatments that can accommodate you in turning vellus hairs terminal. I think we've gotten picky as to what is to be expected of a company that releases a treatment despite what our current options are.

Well technically they're not even vellus, they're "neogenic" whatever they mean by that. I seriously doubt that histogens claims will stand up, everything about them is suspect so I would n't pin my hope on it.

As for follica, I currently get better results with my own homebrew minoxidil based regimen than what they are advertising. If they want me spend $$$ on a treatment it's going to have to be better than what I'm using now.

 

[sunchyme1]

it's going to have to be better than what I'm using now

which is?

 

[mr_robot]

which is?

If they achieve 25 hairs per square cm, that means they they can grow a Norwood (or more, if by "hairs" they mean follicular units). You're growing more than a Norwood on your personal regimen? Why are you on a hair forum and not making a couple billion dollars selling your personal regimen?

Why would I be making billions? It's just stuff anyone can buy..

https://www.hairlosstalk.com/intera...-a-stemoxydine-alfatradiol-4-months-in.96625/

 

[H]

If they achieve 25 hairs per square cm, that means they they can grow a Norwood (or more, if by "hairs" they mean follicular units). You're growing more than a Norwood on your personal regimen? Why are you on a hair forum and not making a couple billion dollars selling your personal regimen?

They would be severely diffuse norwoods.

 

[Pepe with hair]

And what about PolarityTE? @That Guy

 

[SamFT]

No, that would be a full Norwood, and since it only takes half of a healthy Norwood to look like a full Norwood (remember, you only notice hairlosscure after 50% is already gone), a true, full Norwood regrown on the scalp probably appears cosmetically to be a bit more than a single Norwood. I define a Norwood as 1/7 of a healthy head of hair, which is about 150 hairs per sq cm, or 21 hairs per sq cm per Norwood. So 25 hairs per sq cm is a little more than a full Norwood, which is a lot of hair and cannot be regularly achieved by any protocol currently commercially available (super responders not withstanding).

Not only do I agree with what your saying but I think people are forgetting that Follica won't be a once in a lifetime treatment. Why not just get repeat treatment in those areas? So let's say that at the end you have 25 hairs per cm. Why not just do the treatment in the same spot again? Now if it's harmful to the terminal hairs that have been created and lets say you lose 10 per cm after the 2nd treatment. You would be up to 40 hairs per cm! Now this is all speculation but i think some people aren't thinking enough about this

 

[MrV88]

Not only do I agree with what your saying but I think people are forgetting that Follica won't be a once in a lifetime treatment. Why not just get repeat treatment in those areas? So let's say that at the end you have 25 hairs per cm. Why not just do the treatment in the same spot again? Now if it's harmful to the terminal hairs that have been created and lets say you lose 10 per cm after the 2nd treatment. You would be up to 40 hairs per cm! Now this is all speculation but i think some people aren't thinking enough about this

What about combining several things together when they become available? 25 from follica, 25 replicel and so on. And as you suggested maybe you get more than 25 if you repeat it more often than the company suggests? As you said there are options that others don't even think of.

 

[That Guy]

And what about PolarityTE? @That Guy

They are far too early to be really considered a player in the game. Their initial technology is for regenerating skin (which did include hair follicles) in swine models with human trials anticipated this year.

That being said, their work is very impressive and promising.

Not only do I agree with what your saying but I think people are forgetting that Follica won't be a once in a lifetime treatment. Why not just get repeat treatment in those areas? So let's say that at the end you have 25 hairs per cm. Why not just do the treatment in the same spot again? Now if it's harmful to the terminal hairs that have been created and lets say you lose 10 per cm after the 2nd treatment. You would be up to 40 hairs per cm! Now this is all speculation but i think some people aren't thinking enough about this

I agree. It's quite possible it can repeated

What about combining several things together when they become available? 25 from follica, 25 replicel and so on. And as you suggested maybe you get more than 25 if you repeat it more often than the company suggests? As you said there are options that others don't even think of.

You may be able to do that, but no company is going to consider that when discussing the release of a product; they're only going to release something that aims to provide regrowth if it can do considerably better than the state of the art.

Lastly, I'm not sure what a picture of 25 hair per cm looks like, because if it's anything like what they achieved in the Indian study or the most successful dermarollers on these forums have done, I can tell you that it is a more than sufficient amount of regrowth. There is logically no reason that this treatment shouldn't be able to achieve those same results and better.

It would make me NW1 and is a better option than a transplant, so I'm excited to see how Follica plays out.