Super Shed Just Began, Lost 158 Hairs In 5 Minutes With Pics.

[AnxiousAndy]

Hey guys, most regular members will know I've been on a non stop shed for close to 9 months now, my hair has took a hit and all regrowth has been lost + more. I decided to get my hair cut shorter again in hopes of not noticing the shed hair, but what I got instead was the start of the mother of all sheds I have been awake no longer than 30 minutes, the first 5 of those I rubbed my head over the bathroom sink and counted a record breaking ( for me ) 158 hairs in 5 minutes!! Before I could get max 110 in about 10 minutes and no more hair would fall but for the last few days I have been heavily shedding literally non-stop! I could have got more hairs to fall but when I reached 158 I decided to stop, it has me freaked out! I must be losing 300+ hairs daily now when before I was only losing about 200 ( which is still a lot I know )
I've been on finasteride for 23 months, Oral minoxidil for 13 months and Cyproterone for 5 and a half months.. How the hell am I shedding MORE than I ever have in my life at this stage? Most of the hairs that fall are thinning towards the root and have the bulb on them

 

[CrownBalding]

I’m not sure if this is true or not, but I think rubbing your head for five minutes every morning can’t be good for your hair. I never rub my head for more than a few seconds and I’ll usually get a couple hairs. Can you pm or post pics of your hair? From what I’ve seen, your hair looks great so maybe your shedding hairs are growing back at an equal rate?


Nine months of shedding is a long time. I’ve only known about my hair loss since the end of May, and at that time I had very dense hair with slight crown thinning (and a nw2 hair line that I didn’t realize). I’ve been shedding since then and after those 3.5 months I’m significantly and visibly below baseline. You’re making me think I’m either losing 500+ hairs a day, or you’re regrowing all of your hair if you still don’t have visible scalp.

I could be completely wrong, and maybe you do have a bald spot or visible scalp. I’m just going off the pics I saw a few months ago.

 

[AnxiousAndy]

I’m not sure if this is true or not, but I think rubbing your head for five minutes every morning can’t be good for your hair. I never rub my head for more than a few seconds and I’ll usually get a couple hairs. Can you pm or post pics of your hair? From what I’ve seen, your hair looks great so maybe your shedding hairs are growing back at an equal rate?


Nine months of shedding is a long time. I’ve only known about my hair loss since the end of May, and at that time I had very dense hair with slight crown thinning (and a nw2 hair line that I didn’t realize). I’ve been shedding since then and after those 3.5 months I’m significantly and visibly below baseline. You’re making me think I’m either losing 500+ hairs a day, or you’re regrowing all of your hair if you still don’t have visible scalp.

I could be completely wrong, and maybe you do have a bald spot or visible scalp. I’m just going off the pics I saw a few months ago.

I'm not sure if its true or not either but I don't rub hard, just enough to tussle the hairs and make them move. Some hairs are definitely growing back ( probably thinner ) but my hairline is continuing to miniaturize and is gradually thinning towards my widows peak on each side. My hair looks okay when I use my thickening shampoo but without you can really see the area that's thinning, especially now that my hair is shorter. Not everyone sheds, some just miniaturize while others shed, I'm somewhere inbetween. I'm hoping this shed is due to me switching from shady Thai generic minoxidil tablets to drinking authentic minoxidil solution. My body hair has definitely gotten thicker and my facial hair is filling in like crazy but my head hair continues to shed, at a noticeably faster pace. Right now I have toppik and dermmatch in my hair which is making me look like a NW1.5 so there would be no point in sending you a picture today as my loss is being concealed.. When I go for a shower tomorrow I will post pics wet and dry. I did seem to have some crown thinning a while ago but for whatever reason it has filled in ( thank f*** for that! ) now it's just my hairline which is the problem again.

 

[bridgeburn]

I'm hoping this shed is due to me switching from shady Thai generic minoxidil tablets

dude those thai pills are legit, i know cause my eyelashes and eyebrows are thickened, even my arms are hairy.

 

[bridgeburn]

maybe you got mutated androgen receptors that utilize antiandrogens as androgens.. apparently thats documented with bica anyway

 

[AnxiousAndy]

dude those thai pills are legit, i know cause my eyelashes and eyebrows are thickened, even my arms are hairy.

The first Thai brand I used ( Loxidil ) was great because I was actually getting results but since I switched to Mino10 everything went down hill and gradually my extra body hair disappeared so maybe I got bunk pills?
Do you have a link to this Bicalutmide phenomenon? I hope I don't as that would be incredibly unlucky on my part, but one thing is for certain, since I started treatment ( with the exception of a few months on oral minoxidil ) my hair loss noticeably sped up and ate all of my temple hair.

 

[AnxiousAndy]

dude those thai pills are legit, i know cause my eyelashes and eyebrows are thickened, even my arms are hairy.

I should also mention I'm not the only person who used Loxidil with good results then switched to Mino10 and lost ground. I forgot who else it was.

 

[Derelict]

I should also mention I'm not the only person who used Loxidil with good results then switched to Mino10 and lost ground. I forgot who else it was.

I read that thread, didn't thailandpharmacy giving you quite a detailed response as to why it's probably nothing to do with the brand? btw i just received 100 5mg tablets from them today, it's the loxidil brand. If you have ben on finasteride for 23 months with no change, why not switch to dutasteride, or have you already explored that route?

 

[AnxiousAndy]

I read that thread, didn't thailandpharmacy giving you quite a detailed response as to why it's probably nothing to do with the brand? btw i just received 100 5mg tablets from them today, it's the loxidil brand. If you have ben on finasteride for 23 months with no change, why not switch to dutasteride, or have you already explored that route?

Yeah they did, and I believed it up until another member's experience mirrored my own. I have no idea why Loxidil worked so well for me and Mino10 did nothing.. Something must be different with the pills. I've not tried dutasteride and I don't really want to, finasteride accelerated my balding and with the numerous threads of people saying dutasteride did the same thing I believe dutasteride would make me bald. I am on Cyproterone which seems to have lessened the scalp itch so I'll take that as a good thing. Also you are lucky ThailandPharmacy has Loxidil back in stock, its seriously good stuff.

 

[bridgeburn]

The first Thai brand I used ( Loxidil ) was great because I was actually getting results but since I switched to Mino10 everything went down hill and gradually my extra body hair disappeared so maybe I got bunk pills?

i dont know, maybe you ran out of sulfatransferase lol. but i used mino10 the entire time ive been on oral minoxidil. With Hrt though hair is thinner in chest and legs even with minoxidil, but I still think the mino10 is effective cause some places like the arms are more hairy.

unless you just happened to get a bunk box and i didn't?

Do you have a link to this Bicalutmide phenomenon?

it was discussed somewhere on my thread.. my super long thread.. give me a minute

 

[AnxiousAndy]

i dont know, maybe you ran out of sulfatransferase lol. but i used mino10 the entire time ive been on oral minoxidil. With Hrt though hair is thinner in chest and legs even with minoxidil, but I still think the mino10 is effective cause some places like the arms are more hairy.

unless you just happened to get a bunk box and i didn't?


it was discussed somewhere on my thread.. my super long thread.. give me a minute

I'm 99% sure that when my shed originally started it was due to the changing of brands. When I was on nothing but finasteride at the start of my journey I actually lost less hair, but the miniaturisation process kicked into overdrive and one half of my hair strand would be thick and the other half would literally be so thin it was see through, no gradual thinning.. Just a sudden jump from thick to thin/transparent hair. When I started Loxidil obviously this all went away for a while, until the shed hit.. One thing I have noticed is that since being on Cypro my hair no longer abruptly thins into nothing at the root. Its now a more gradual thinning which is exactly what my hair was like before being on any treatment. One thing I am concerned about is that my side effects are starting to go away, I'm beginning to produce semen again.. It's still colorless and only a little bit sticky ( TMI??) I have more of a sex drive ( but its still very low ) and my erections are stronger. Does that mean its losing effectiveness? I've only been on it for 5 and a half months!

 

[bridgeburn]

on bica, however its regarding mutant cancer cells.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20058237
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/20878136/

It's still colorless and only a little bit sticky ( TMI??)

Hahaha, I have been there

One thing I am concerned about is that my side effects are starting to go away, I'm beginning to produce semen again.. It's still colorless and only a little bit sticky ( TMI??) I have more of a sex drive ( but its still very low ) and my erections are stronger. Does that mean its losing effectiveness? I've only been on it for 5 and a half months!

hmm, its probably because you dropped estradiol. Estradiol literally atrophies the testicles in addition to causing negative feedback as well But with cypro, spermatogenesis is reversible.

there was actually a time that for about 3 months that i dropped cypro and didnt use any antiandrogen, and took 4mg estrofem. sperm didn't return, I didn't feel like my T recovered either.

from wikipedia:
"CPA is able to lower circulating testosterone concentrations by 70 to 80% in men at sufficiently high dosages.[91][186] However, in spite of strong suppression of testosterone levels, CPA, at least by itself (e.g., without estrogen), is not usually able to reduce testosterone levels into the castrate/female range (<50 ng/dL) at any dosage, and testosterone levels generally remain just above it at circulating levels of roughly 50 to 100 ng/dL.[91][187] "

and heres a graph, there are some flutuactions in T production.

apparently though, the mutant Ar is possible with Cpa? according to wiki.

"A paradoxical effect occurs with certain prostate cancer cells which have genetic mutations in their ARs. These altered ARs can be activated, rather than inhibited, by CPA. In such cases, withdrawal of CPA may result in a reduction in cancer growth, rather than the reverse.[162] This is known as antiandrogen withdrawal syndrome."

 

[AnxiousAndy]

on bica, however its regarding mutant cancer cells.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20058237
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/20878136/


Hahaha, I have been there


hmm, its probably because you dropped estradiol. Estradiol literally atrophies the testicles in addition to causing negative feedback as well But with cypro, spermatogenesis is reversible.

there was actually a time that for about 3 months that i dropped cypro and didnt use any antiandrogen, and took 4mg estrofem. sperm didn't return, I didn't feel like my T recovered either.

from wikipedia:
"CPA is able to lower circulating testosterone concentrations by 70 to 80% in men at sufficiently high dosages.[91][186] However, in spite of strong suppression of testosterone levels, CPA, at least by itself (e.g., without estrogen), is not usually able to reduce testosterone levels into the castrate/female range (<50 ng/dL) at any dosage, and testosterone levels generally remain just above it at circulating levels of roughly 50 to 100 ng/dL.[91][187] "

and heres a graph, there are some flutuactions in T production.
View attachment 99395


apparently though, the mutant Ar is possible with Cpa? according to wiki.

"A paradoxical effect occurs with certain prostate cancer cells which have genetic mutations in their ARs. These altered ARs can be activated, rather than inhibited, by CPA. In such cases, withdrawal of CPA may result in a reduction in cancer growth, rather than the reverse.[162] This is known as antiandrogen withdrawal syndrome."

Very interesting, thanks for finding these! I'm wondering if Cancerous AR's are different from the AR's found in the scalp considering cancer is literally mutated cells, I'd like to think so but I'm no scientist lol.
Hmm so maybe my testosterone is not as low as I thought it was! 25mg is a fairly average/slightly low dose, right? I may have to get back on Estrogen, although at 0.5mg this time.. But I'm stuck with like 40 tiny 2mg estrofem pills that I have no idea how I'm going to cut them!
Right now I'm going to see if this 'super shed' is simply just an initial minoxidil shed.. Since switching to drinking the liquid and doubling my dose my body and facial hair is growing exponentially! I've never been this hairy.. So I'm crossing my finger that I eventually stop shedding and get some nice regrowth!

 

[SmoothSailing]

From years of different treatments and going through different periods of shedding I've come to the conclusion that deciding how well my hair is doing based on the amount of hair shed doesn't really work.

Instead you should focus entirely on how your hair looks.

Shedding is scary, but is often a good thing especially if you're messing about with minoxidil dosing (stop messing with it though).

For me ever since I started minoxidil 3 years ago I've gone through periodic sheds that seem to be absolutely terrible but I never notice any actual affect on my hair.

My hair has been getting steadily worse but it doesn't coincide with increased shedding.

Also remember that more hair = more shedding (during regular shedding period)

 

[AnxiousAndy]

From years of different treatments and going through different periods of shedding I've come to the conclusion that deciding how well my hair is doing based on the amount of hair shed doesn't really work.

Instead you should focus entirely on how your hair looks.

Shedding is scary, but is often a good thing especially if you're messing about with minoxidil dosing (stop messing with it though).

For me ever since I started minoxidil 3 years ago I've gone through periodic sheds that seem to be absolutely terrible but I never notice any actual affect on my hair.

My hair has been getting steadily worse but it doesn't coincide with increased shedding.

Also remember that more hair = more shedding (during regular shedding period)

Admittedly despite my ridiculously long shedding I've experienced so far, I've lost less hair than I thought I would have at this point which I guess is positive. Something tells me this 'super shed' is due to me switching up the minoxidil ( I really f*****g hope it is ) I started drinking the liquid about 38 days ago and this shed started about 4 days ago.. So I guess it falls within the period of shedding associated with minoxidil. Since making the switch I am a lot hairier ( on the body ) and my beard is growing faster/thicker and new hairs ( on my face ) have popped up, two being extremely thick.

 

[bridgeburn]

Very interesting, thanks for finding these! I'm wondering if Cancerous AR's are different from the AR's found in the scalp considering cancer is literally mutated cells, I'd like to think so but I'm no scientist lol.

well technically mutation can happen in any cell which divides. Cells divide and have to copy DNA when they do, its almost perfect but once every a million times or so our body makes a mistake. thats a mutation and 99 percent of the time mutations are bad.. hopefully our normal cells out number and outlive our mutated ones but its easy to see why aging is a problem cause more time has passed with more number of divisions.. cancer is one of the problems linked to mutations.

UV rays, ciggarettes, Heterocyclic amines, etc. cause DNA damage. DNA gives instructions for protein production and hair is protein.
So to respond the best to our treatments, we need to take care of our Dna.

oops didnt mean to ramble lol

 

[bridgeburn]

Hmm so maybe my testosterone is not as low as I thought it was! 25mg is a fairly average/slightly low dose, right? I may have to get back on Estrogen, although at 0.5mg this time.. But I'm stuck with like 40 tiny 2mg estrofem pills that I have no idea how I'm going to cut them!

hahha well,

less E - more antiandrogen, more E - less antiandrogen

 

[AnxiousAndy]

well technically mutation can happen in any cell which divides. Cells divide and have to copy DNA when they do, its almost perfect but once every a million times or so our body makes a mistake. thats a mutation and 99 percent of the time mutations are bad.. hopefully our normal cells out number and outlive our mutated ones but its easy to see why aging is a problem cause more time has passed with more number of divisions.. cancer is one of the problems linked to mutations.

UV rays, ciggarettes, Heterocyclic amines, etc. cause DNA damage. DNA gives instructions for protein production and hair is protein.
So to respond the best to our treatments, we need to take care of our Dna.

oops didnt mean to ramble lol

Wow you sure know your stuff Bridge lol. Luckily I stay away from UV rays but I do smoke, its something I'm trying to give up.. For my hair's sake not my health obviously. At this stage I have no choice but to continue with my treatments, I really really hope in 3 months my shed stops and my hair will be better. I hate having to use concealer now, but it does work wonders!

 

[bridgeburn]

but I do smoke

nicotine prevents breakdown of Dht by 3a-Hsd.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/3200111/

higher androgen levels in smoking men:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7962322

 

[michel sapin]

honestly bro shedding mean nothing . It is miniaturization the real thing that you have to worry .
I remember when I was a child with long hair , I shed at least 100 hair a day