Stemson is going to use minipigs in the next stage of their hair cloning research

[froggy7]

Because every company/researcher that tried to multiply ("clone") DP cells extracted from hairs failed, including Tsuji/Organ. When you multiply DP cells directly they end up losing their properties and can't produce hair.

Stemson is using iPSC because this kind of cells fix that problem. It's a more complex solution but it is the only one that currently is known to work.

Tsuji's solution was "easy" just on paper. It didn't pan out as he planned and as a result his research is pretty much stalled since 2018, which caused Organ Tech to go bankrupt last year.

Tsuji wanted human trials without solving this problem?

 

[werefckd]

Tsuji wanted human trials without solving this problem?

Maybe he wants to use the trials to try to solve that problem, I don't now. It's very strange that he is "ready for trials" without any record of him performing a comprehensive pre clinical research first, like Stemson is doing.

The fact is that since 2018 he lost A LOT of momentum for a reason.

 

[pegasus2]

Tsuji's the only one who has published a paper. Where is the evidence of Stemson's progress? Oh yeah, there isn't any

 

[froggy7]

Maybe he wants to use the trials to try to solve that problem, I don't now. It's very strange that he is "ready for trials" without any record of him performing a comprehensive pre clinical research first, like Stemson is doing.

The fact is that since 2018 he lost A LOT of momentum for a reason.

didnt Tsuji finish preclinical work?

 

[werefckd]

Tsuji's the only one who has published a paper. Where is the evidence of Stemson's progress? Oh yeah, there isn't any

Lol what?? Terskikh published papers too, you're spitting non sense.

Anyways, Stemson is way past the "paper publishing" / basic research stage now. Operational company that received 22.5M in funding. They are in a totally different level. "Where is the evidence of Stemson's progress?" lol.

 

[froggy7]

Lol what?? Terskikh published papers too, you're spitting non sense.

Anyways, Stemson is way past the "paper publishing" / basic research stage now. They are in a totally different level.

Tsuji is ready for human trials.....

 

[werefckd]

Tsuji is ready for human trials.....

Yes, he is "ready" since 2018, lol

 

[pegasus2]

Yes, he is "ready" since 2018, lol

He never said that. He is ready since this year. You really act like your daddy works at Stemson or something. There's no other explanation for being such a fanboy. If like to see both of them succeed. For now Stemson hasn't even figured out how to consistently grow hair in animal models

 

[werefckd]

What a retard conversation, lol. See ya later

 

[scientist_0005]

I wish it was in 5 years, but I'm a realist, I think you read the interview with Hamilton.....

you honestly believe they can affors swimming along without anything remotely astonishing to show for for 10 years? who would invest in a company to do 12 years of clinical research and then 5 years of clinical trials? hell youd earn more money with bonds at that rate. if you invest 15 mil in a hair cloning company you want to see progress not in 10 years but in 3-4. i also do not understand how people are coming up with those numbers??

in his last interview, alexey said to the following question:

"how long do you think it will take you to get this to market? "

he said "i have a number in my mind but i am not going to say it. i will say though that it is still a long road so it will take us at least 3-4 years, probably a little bit longer"

that was in november 2020. to me 3-4 but probably a bit longer reads like 6-7 years should be a realistic time frame? they would be able to do 3-4 more years to figure out all the issues like dht resistency and then another 3 years for clinical trials. why do people come up with 10-12? what are they supposed to do in that time frame? what would possibly take a f*****g decade to figure out? they either have a product and an idea which they pitch to their investors or they do not


this is like making a company with the goal to cure cancer. i found this company. we will cure csncer. we dont know exactly how to do it yet but we want to collect 15 mio and we will use this new technology called rna cancer vaccines. how does that sound? stupid AF.

i just cannot imagine them doing ground research for like 10 years, this is a massive time frame we are talking about here. and whx would alexey say "minimum 3-4 years" you do not suggest half the time as a minimum

Tsuji's the only one who has published a paper. Where is the evidence of Stemson's progress? Oh yeah, there isn't any

Derivation of Hair-Inducing Cell from Human Pluripotent Stem Cells

Dermal Papillae (DP) is a unique population of mesenchymal cells that was shown to regulate hair follicle formation and growth cycle. During development most DP cells are derived from mesoderm, however, functionally equivalent DP cells of cephalic hairs originate from Neural Crest (NC). Here we...

journals.plos.org

this is the paper they published. what are you talking about??

 

[scientist_0005]

Because every company/researcher that tried to multiply ("clone") DP cells extracted from hairs failed, including Tsuji/Organ. When you multiply DP cells directly they end up losing their properties and can't produce hair.

Stemson is using iPSC because this kind of cells fix that problem. It's a more complex solution but it is the only one that currently is known to work.

Tsuji's solution was "easy" just on paper. It didn't pan out as he planned and as a result his research is pretty much stalled since 2018, which caused Organ Tech to go bankrupt last year.

Microenvironmental reprogramming by three-dimensional culture enables dermal papilla cells to induce de novo human hair-follicle growth

Growth of de novo hair follicles in adult skin occurs by a process known as hair neogenesis. One way of initiating neogenesis is to place dermal papillae isolated from the hair follicle in contact with an overlying epidermis where they reprogram the epidermis to adopt a follicular fate. This...

www.pnas.org

there are work arounds this issue which has been partially solved. you need to culture the cells in a sphere which resembles their natural habitat to achieve maintenance of inductivity during proliferation

 

[werefckd]

Microenvironmental reprogramming by three-dimensional culture enables dermal papilla cells to induce de novo human hair-follicle growth

Growth of de novo hair follicles in adult skin occurs by a process known as hair neogenesis. One way of initiating neogenesis is to place dermal papillae isolated from the hair follicle in contact with an overlying epidermis where they reprogram the epidermis to adopt a follicular fate. This...

www.pnas.org

there are work arounds this issue which has been partially solved. you need to culture the cells in a sphere which resembles their natural habitat to achieve maintenance of inductivity during proliferation

Yes but scientists know about this "solution" for almost a decade now (the paper you cited is from 2013). And guess what, in practice that method ended up not working. I wish that wasn't the case, but it is what it is.

 

[pegasus2]

I didn't read all that, but I read the part where you put words in my mouth. I said if they succeed it will be available to purchase in 5-10 years, not that they would start human trials in 12 years. I don't know what you read, but it wasn't my post.

Make up your mind guy, is stemson coming in 5 years, or is finasteride going to be the only solution in 40 years

 

[scientist_0005]

Yes but scientists know about this "solution" for almost a decade now (the paper you cited is from 2013). And guess what, in practice that method ended up not working. I wish that wasn't the case, but it is what it is.

hence why stemson is using fibroblasts to induce IPSC and then neural crest, that gets cultured and then converted to DP. they have one problem though:

"IPSC-DP cells resulted in formation of hairs with GFP-positive dermal papillae and dermal capsules albeit with much lower frequencies (1 hair out of 50) then in case of hESC-DP cells. The presence of GFP-positive cells within DP of these hairs was confirmed in sections"

this is what they are working on right now. the DP cells derived from embryonic stem cells where 50 times more likely to grow actual hair whereas there was lots of failure with their IPC method. they showed that i can be done but not very reliable as of the writing of this report. once they have figures out how to get the number way up they can engineer them to have a similar expression pattern to that of dht resistant cells. i think this may not necesarily be the hard part. i mean who says they would not be dht resistant? for all we know it could inherit the expression pattern of the fibroblast whoch may not even express 5AR or the AR at all? so this could be as much of an issue qs a non issue. remember, the vulnerable cells in the horseshoe pattern where told to be this fucked up at some point during development. who says the engineered cells will even behave this way?

 

[werefckd]

hence why stemson is using fibroblasts to induce IPSC and then neural crest, that gets cultured and then converted to DP. they have one problem though:

"IPSC-DP cells resulted in formation of hairs with GFP-positive dermal papillae and dermal capsules albeit with much lower frequencies (1 hair out of 50) then in case of hESC-DP cells. The presence of GFP-positive cells within DP of these hairs was confirmed in sections"

this is what they are working on right now. the DP cells derived from embryonic stem cells where 50 times more likely to grow actual hair whereas there was lots of failure with their IPC method. they showed that i can be done but not very reliable as of the writing of this report. once they have figures out how to get the number way up they can engineer them to have a similar expression pattern to that of dht resistant cells. i think this may not necesarily be the hard part. i mean who says they would not be dht resistant? for all we know it could inherit the expression pattern of the fibroblast whoch may not even express 5AR or the AR at all? so this could be as much of an issue qs a non issue. remember, the vulnerable cells in the horseshoe pattern where told to be this fucked up at some point during development. who says the engineered cells will even behave this way?

Interesting info, where did you get that quote?

That may really be the reason they are not progressing as fast as they thought they would in the beginning.

EDIT: oh it's from the same study. So Terskikh already knew about that challenge even in 2015

 

[scientist_0005]

i just reread their paper and i think making them dht resistant might not be that hard after all. you dont even have to understand what is truly going on to do that. much like how they do not know exactly what molecules triggers the differentiation from neural crest cells to dermal papilla cells. they actually used Fetal Bovine Serum which is actually blood from a cow fetus with lots of signaling molecules and transcription factors in it, rhey basically recreate the condition that was present during embryogenesis this way without fundamentally understanding what factors are involved. if the resulting cell has the right behavior and expression pattern, they are set.

they just have to figure out what is different during embryogenesis between the hair on top of your head vs on the back in terms of signaling molecules and then they can put their neural crest cells throigh that process and check iteratively whether they have properties similar to donor area hair cells

 

[froggy7]

"its hard seeing Stemson genetic cure costing little when other genetic cures are 1 million dollars minimum. I think theyll get there. I just dont think they’ll get the automation machinery to work. for all we know it could take 1 year and 50 scientists to clone all the hair for 1 human in 2030. im just being practical. And yeah I think they want to help people. but so is biogen with their 50k a year Alzheimers drug, right."

 

[scientist_0005]

Interesting info, where did you get that quote?

That may really be the reason they are not progressing as fast as they thought they would in the beginning.

EDIT: oh it's from the same study. So Terskikh already knew about that challenge even in 2015

yes of course, rhis is a well kkow problem with IPC therapeutics, it is still a young fiels

 

[scientist_0005]

"its hard seeing Stemson genetic cure costing little when other genetic cures are 1 million dollars minimum. I think theyll get there. I just dont think they’ll get the automation machinery to work. for all we know it could take 1 year and 50 scientists to clone all the hair for 1 human in 2030. im just being practical. And yeah I think they want to help people. but so is biogen with their 50k a year Alzheimers drug, right."

you are just straight up making sh*t up arent you? what genetic cure even??

 

[froggy7]

you are just straight up making sh*t up arent you? what genetic cure even??

this is not my comment, I wanted to know your opinion on this subject, people with knowledge write here