Revivogen

[floatableTR]

Wow.. its been a while since i've posted. 8O Well by looking at my old posts, it seems that I've been using revivogen for around 14 months(by itself). No regrowth My crown has lost more and my forehead is bigger. There was awhile were everything was on the up and up, but it looks like my results have leveled off and this is as good as Revivogen is going to get for me. I'm sure if I hadent used it my situation would have been much worse, but using it solo is simply not good enough.

 

[joe]

Revovgen and Folligen

hi,

This is joe from singapore.just stated to use Revovgen and Folligen is on the way deliver to me.However iam not sure how to use it together...any any comment about the combination?

 

[dis]

Wow.. its been a while since i've posted. 8O Well by looking at my old posts, it seems that I've been using revivogen for around 14 months(by itself). No regrowth My crown has lost more and my forehead is bigger. There was awhile were everything was on the up and up, but it looks like my results have leveled off and this is as good as Revivogen is going to get for me. I'm sure if I hadent used it my situation would have been much worse, but using it solo is simply not good enough.

I have somewhat similar results. I have been using Revivogen continuously for a little over a year and half. It has helped reduced hairloss but it does not completely stop it. I do feel it has definitely helped. The same goes with spironolactone.

Well, I wonder how people are responding to Dutasteride. If Dutasteride does not stop hairloss in most people then I guess DHT is probably not the only cause of hairloss.

Anyway, I will continue to use Revivogen and spironolactone since they are at least helping. Hopefully newer and better treatments will become available soon.

 

[dis]

Today I decided to use Revivogen and spironolactone in the same night. I waited three hours after applying the Revivogen and I find it is much easier to apply the 5% spironolactone cream afterwards. The Revivogen makes my hair greasy, and the hairs kind of stick together so it makes it easier for me to apply the spironolactone between the hairs.

I am thinking of using both spironolactone and Revivogen every night instead of alternating each one every other day. Using both products the same night will double my costs, but I think it might be more effective since my hair is diffusely thinning in the front. Over the last four years my hair has been slowly thinning in the front, and I can see through the thin spots even when my hair is dry. I have no recession, since the hairline is still there, but the density in the front has gone to sh*t. Even when I run my hands through the front of my hair, I can feel that the hair weight is lighter and noticeably thinner then the back. This seems like classic FPB.

Anyway, my question is has anyone had any success using Revivogen and spironolactone shortly after one another. I know after you apply Revivogen you are suppose to wait three hours before applying the spironolactone cream, but can I get away with waiting like 15 min? Has anyone used Revivogen and applied spironolactone cream immediately after and still have success? The three hour waiting period is one of the reasons I did not use both these products together in the same day.

Any feedback would be appreciated.

 

[dis]

OK, I emailed Revivogen and they said:

"It would be best if you applied the 5% spironolactone one hour before applying Revivogen adding anything before 3 hours after applying Revivogne or too sooner then 1 hour before will interfere with the ingredients and delivery of Revivgoen and will affect your result."

I would have thought that the spironolactone should be applied after the Revivogen and not before it. Wouldn't the spironolactone cream interfere with Revivogen being absorbed, even if I apply the Revivogen 1 hour after I applied the spironolactone cream?

Any feedback would be appreciated.

 

[oaslam]

Hair growth stimulant

It sounds like the Revivogen people just want to be sure that there is no interference with their delivery vehicle. That's probably a worthwhile concern, considering how many different ingredients they put in their product: they really have to maintain stability.

Are you not going to consider using Minoxidil? Since your aim is to not have a thin head of hair, you should consider using Minoxidil as a growth stimulant. It's the only proven stimulant out there.

Hair growth stimulation, combined with reducing 5-alpha reductase (as you are theoretically doing by using Revivogen and spironolactone) is a more effective way to combat hair loss, than with just using DHT inhibitors and anti-androgens alone.

Using it can be a pain, but the results, if Minoxidil is effective for you, might be worth it.

Good luck,
O.

 

[dis]

Re: Hair growth stimulant

It sounds like the Revivogen people just want to be sure that there is no interference with their delivery vehicle. That's probably a worthwhile concern, considering how many different ingredients they put in their product: they really have to maintain stability.

Are you not going to consider using Minoxidil? Since your aim is to not have a thin head of hair, you should consider using Minoxidil as a growth stimulant. It's the only proven stimulant out there.

Hair growth stimulation, combined with reducing 5-alpha reductase (as you are theoretically doing by using Revivogen and spironolactone) is a more effective way to combat hair loss, than with just using DHT inhibitors and anti-androgens alone.

Using it can be a pain, but the results, if Minoxidil is effective for you, might be worth it.

Good luck,
O.

Thanks for the feedback Oaslam.

I do not intend to use Minoxidil because I do not believe it really deals with the hair loss problem. I think it just gives your hair a temporary boost. Also, I do not want to apply three or four topicals a day since that would drive me crazy. Even using Revivogen and spironolactone in the same day is a bit of a pain because of the three hour waiting period.

I used Prox-N in the past and I found it left my hair greasy in the morning, so I can imagine how greasy the 5% minoxidil solutions must be. I think Dr. Lee sells a less greasy version of minoxidil, but I wonder if it's really less greasy then Prox-N.

Another reason I do not use minoxidil is to reduce cost. I am trying to minimize the cost of using these hairloss treatments, and focus on the ones that actually deal with the cause of the problem. I do believe that my hair would improve with using Minoxidil, but it just seems too inconvenient to use 2X a day. Also, I read that when you stop using it most of the hair will fall out in just a few weeks.

I currently use:

Revivogen (Evening)
spironolactone (Evening)
Nizoral 2% (Every second or third day)

For now, I am just going to attack the DHT, until better treatments come out. If I where to add anything, I might try another SOD again. Tricomm sounds interesting because it is not greasy, and it does have some evidence it can help. However, I have read posts where people say it's watered down, etc. So I don't know. If I were to add another treatment, it would have to be one that I can use in the morning or a shampoo like Nano. It basically cannot leave my hair greasy and interfere with my social life.

 

[oaslam]

Hello,

Firstly, concerning the minoxidil; although if one discontinued regular use of Minoxidil and their hair did fall out, the same thing could be said for any other treatment. So, unfortunately, all these treatments must be kept up indefinitely.

I use Xandrox from Dr. Lee, (minoxidil with Azelaic acid) and I think it's a fairly decent product. It doesn't make my hair greasy. In fact, when it dries, it actually has a stiffening affect that some people call "thickness", but I really just find "stiff". I believe the greasiness in Rogain, and/or generic Minoxidil comes from the propylene glycol, of which Dr. Lee uses less of. I just wanted to inform you of this in case you didn't know, because for me, at least cosmetically, it's nice to not have a greasy head in public (considering I already have the thin hair to worry about!).

Anyhow, on the topic of Revivogen, although I think you mentioned that it worked ok on you, I, myself also used it for a year and although I would say that it did in the end make a some of my individual hairs a bit thicker, it didn't promote more hair. Which is to say, that it didn't stimulate or maintain active follicals.

I specifically asked Dr. Lee what he thought about me rotating Sprio and Revivogen nightly and he responded with this: "The only proven ingredient in Revivogen is Azelaic acid, but if you want to rotate them, then fine." I would, however, add the caveat that his "proven" Azelaic acid has only been tested in vitro.

Here's a link to a web page on his site, which if you haven't read, might be helpful.

http://www.minoxidil.com/Female.htm/female.htm

O.

 

[dis]

It is true that if you stop any hair loss treatment that your hair will fall out, but Revivogen and spironolactone try to deal with the DHT part, which is at least part of the cause of the problem. I would like to see some evidence that shows Minoxidil actually treats the cause of the male pattern baldness problem. In other words, if someone were to use Minoxidil by it self for one year and then stop it, would that person lose the same amount of hair compared to someone who has never used any hair loss treatment, or would that person still have more hair compared to the person who never used minoxidil?

I will probably add Dr Lee's Minoxidil in one or two years when my hair thins out more. By then, I will need a more cosmetic improvement since I will have noticeable baldness. Who knows, in a year or two there could be better treatments out that might be even more interesting then minoxidil.

 

[oaslam]

Well, so far, as least from what I've heard, no one can demonstrate that minoxidil treats the cause of baldness, because no one really knows how minoxidil works.

As to your question concerning someone using Minoxidil for one year and then stopping... Take a look at this link. In it there is a graph done on twins. I'm not sure about the validity of the study, but I found it very interesting.

http://www.hairlosstalk.com/discussions ... php?t=3178

O.

 

[oaslam]

Dis,

Also, if you want to wait to use a growth stimulant like Minoxidil, that is, of course, your prerogative. But one possible hazard in that choice is that your hair follicles, unless they are stimulated to grow hair begin to atrophy, since, as good as DHT inhibiting treatment might be, there will still be a little DHT in the scalp.

O.

 

[dis]

Well, so far, as least from what I've heard, no one can demonstrate that minoxidil treats the cause of baldness, because no one really knows how minoxidil works.

As to your question concerning someone using Minoxidil for one year and then stopping... Take a look at this link. In it there is a graph done on twins. I'm not sure about the validity of the study, but I found it very interesting.

http://www.hairlosstalk.com/discussions ... php?t=3178

O.

It's interesting, and I think that graph pretty much shows that once you get off Minoxidil, you will return to a level of hair loss compared to someone who has never used any hair loss treatment. So I would assume that Minoxidil does not really help with the underlying problem.

I am not sure, but I think if someone responds well to Propecia, and then that person stops Propecia after one year, baldness will resume from that point in time, and that person will still be better off then someone not using Propecia.

 

[oaslam]

I agree. Minoxidil doesn't help with the underlying problem. I don't know about Propecia... Perhaps it would work as you state.

I wish hair weren't that important in the first place...

O.

 

[dis]

I asked Dr. Lee about the timing when to apply Revivogen and spironolactone, and this is what he said:

It is doubtful that you would interfere with the absorption of either topical if you waited a half hour to an hour. When a patient uses Xandrox which is a combination of 5% minoxidil and 5% azelaic acid, I recommend that he wait 10 minutes to apply 5% spironolactone lotion to dry or partially dry Xandrox. The lotion acts as an occlusive cover an helps the absorption of minoxidil and azelaic acid.

You would only care about the absorption of azelaic acid in Revivogen. The active ingredients of Revivogen are natural compounds purported to be inhibitors of 5-Alpha-Reductase, the enzyme that changes testosterone to DHT. These active ingredients include Gamma Linolenic acid (GLA), Alpha Linolenic acid (ALA), Linoleic Acid, Azelaic acid, Vitamin B6, Zinc, and Saw Palmetto Extract.

Other than azelaic acid, none of the other compounds have been proven to reduce DHT in vivo nor topically.

I do not see minoxidil in your treatment equation. If you are not using it, understand that drugs such as azelaic acid in Revivogen or Xandrox, spironolactone and finasteride (Propecia) protect the follicles from DHT in the scalp, but protecting from DHT in the scalp isn't the whole solution. Even men who have been castrated for treatment of prostate cancer and have no source of DHT will stop the balding process, but they do not grow back significant amounts of hair (unless they also use minoxidil as a hair growth stimulant). That's why a combination of minoxidil and an anti-androgen is important for growth outside the vertex/crown area.

Grow Well,

Richard Lee, M.D.

 

[Bryan]

(Quoting Dr. Lee) Other than azelaic acid, none of the other compounds have been proven to reduce DHT in vivo nor topically.

I can't believe he actually said that! :lol:

Bryan

 

[dis]

(Quoting Dr. Lee) Other than azelaic acid, none of the other compounds have been proven to reduce DHT in vivo nor topically.

I can't believe he actually said that! :lol:

Bryan

A new that would have got your attention.

In your opinion Bryan, what is the minimum amount of time that I have to wait to apply spironolactone after applying Revivogen? Dr.Lee and the Revivogen people give me two different answers so I am not to sure which to believe.

I am sure waiting three hours to apply the spironolactone after Revivogen is the safest method, but if you are applying Revivogen in the evening, then waiting three hours after to apply the spironolactone 5% cream is a littlie bit of a pain. I would rather apply both topicals at once, or minimize the waiting period to like 1/2 hr to 1 hr between both topicals.

Your feedback would be appreciated.

 

[Bryan]

Oh, I dunno...maybe 30 minutes to an hour is ok...

Bryan

 

[Guest]

I figure you should wait until the first product dries or almost dries, maybe an hour.

I look at it this way, the concentration of the active ingredient is one of the determining factors in how much of the ingredient gets into your scalp. This is probably the main reason that minoxidil 5% is more effective than minoxidil 2%, the higher concentration allows more minoxidil to get into your scalp, and it also allows it to get into your scalp at a higher concentration.

I am gonig to use Reviv and spironolactone as an example, this is not to say that I know anything about how these two products should be applied or that the example would be any different with other products.

If you apply, let's say, 1 ml 5% spironolactone and 1 ml Reviv (let's call the Reviv an imaginary 10% active ingrediant) at nearly the same time the effect might be similar to mixing the two on your scalp (to some extent). In the extreme case, you now have 2 mls of 2.5% spironolactone and 5% Reviv. It is the same dose but the cocentration is less so it might not be as effective. More likely it would be a little more complex in reality, perhaps the first product would be partially absorbed at full concentration and then the remainder would be very much diluted with the application of the second product.

Beyond protecting the concentration of the product, I can speculate at a possible second benefit to letting one product dry and then applying a second product. Let's say you apply 1 ml Reviv (at 10% imaginary active ingredient concentration) to your head and let it dry. What is all that crap on your scalp and in your hair? It's the Reviv that didn't make it into your scalp and crystallized on your head when the remaining solvent evaporated/permeated. This stuff that is now dried on your head probably has little chance of making it into your scalp because it is no longer in solution. Well now if you add 1 ml of 5% spironolactone to your head some of the dried revivogen will go into solution/suspension with the spironolactone and penetrate your scalp, so basically you are getting a second dose of Reviv for free by adding the second treatment, albeit at a lower concentration than the first dose, but still more than you would have gotten otherwise. Also, since the dried Reviv is not adding any solvent to the spironolactone, the volume of the spironolactone will probably not change much by the addition of the dried Reviv on your scalp so the concentration of the spironolactone stays at full-strength 5%.

Now, if the two products react with each other or otherwise interfere with each other then my reasoning gets thrown out the window.

Many people who use Reviv, folligen, and other non-FDA approved treatments seem to be using them along with minoxidil preparations. I have been pondering that perhaps one of the benefits realized from these additional treatments might simply be increase of minoxidil dosing by remobilizing previously applied minoxidil that has dried on the scalp.

 

[dis]

Thanks for the feedback.

 

[Bryan]

If you apply, let's say, 1 ml 5% spironolactone and 1 ml Reviv (let's call the Reviv an imaginary 10% active ingrediant) at nearly the same time the effect might be similar to mixing the two on your scalp (to some extent). In the extreme case, you now have 2 mls of 2.5% spironolactone and 5% Reviv. It is the same dose but the cocentration is less so it might not be as effective.

I think the exact "concentration" in that particular regard wouldn't have much relevance. Far more important is simply the total amount of medication that you're putting on your scalp, in my opinion.

Beyond protecting the concentration of the product, I can speculate at a possible second benefit to letting one product dry and then applying a second product. Let's say you apply 1 ml Reviv (at 10% imaginary active ingredient concentration) to your head and let it dry. What is all that crap on your scalp and in your hair? It's the Reviv that didn't make it into your scalp and crystallized on your head when the remaining solvent evaporated/permeated. This stuff that is now dried on your head probably has little chance of making it into your scalp because it is no longer in solution. Well now if you add 1 ml of 5% spironolactone to your head some of the dried revivogen will go into solution/suspension with the spironolactone and penetrate your scalp, so basically you are getting a second dose of Reviv for free by adding the second treatment, albeit at a lower concentration than the first dose, but still more than you would have gotten otherwise. Also, since the dried Reviv is not adding any solvent to the spironolactone, the volume of the spironolactone will probably not change much by the addition of the dried Reviv on your scalp so the concentration of the spironolactone stays at full-strength 5%.

I agree with your main point, but your choice of Revivogen for your example was unwise! The main ingredients in Revivogen are the fatty acids, and those aren't going to "dry out" or "crystallize" on your scalp! It makes more sense to reverse the order: you put some spironolactone solution on your scalp, some of it dries out before it can be absorbed, then you apply some Revivogen later and it's the _Revivogen_ that comes to the rescue of the _spiro_ by dissolving the spironolactone again, giving it a second chance to be absorbed!

But once again I'll say that in my opinion, the concentration per se is probably not a big factor in any of this.

Many people who use Reviv, folligen, and other non-FDA approved treatments seem to be using them along with minoxidil preparations. I have been pondering that perhaps one of the benefits realized from these additional treatments might simply be increase of minoxidil dosing by remobilizing previously applied minoxidil that has dried on the scalp.

I think I agree with that general idea.

Bryan