Replicel Is On Fire Lately — Data In Feb.

[mr_robot]

To go on a bit of a rant, I personally think it's the most ***-backwards thing that in the 21st century, doctors still waste their time researching treatments for hairloss with f*****g topicals or oral drugs. It gives me eyeball AIDS every time I read some interesting piece of research where it ends with "We hope to create a topical solution or maybe some sort of drug one day..."

There is nothing wrong with topicals or even oral drugs, a bald scalp still has follicle stem cells but with proginator cells lacking. The problem is that most medicine (not just hairloss) works on treating the symptoms rather than finding the cause as the later is much more complex. However it is conceivable if the cause is found and rectified via chemical molecule that could be applied topically.

As for Tsuji, as impressive as it is it is basically a very sophisticated hair transplant that requires an invasive procedure. Likewise follica is hardly awe inspiring either in its wounding technology. Neither of these addresses the causes.

So a topical cure is certainly possible and is in fact desirable, however we're probably looking at decades as it will only happen when we fully understand the genetics behind hairloss.

 

[br1]

That's right.. The problem is: we don't have many options! None that *really* works.. Topical or not..

If it is proven to WORK and it is a f*****g suppository, I doubt you would not shove it ..

 

[Trichosan]

That's right...and it is a f*****g suppository, I doubt you would not shove it ..

Indeed.

 

[plisk]

its hard to follow this

so whats the consensus now this is another horse not worth betting on?

Welp, so much for the "lol dont get a hair transplant, by the time it grows in replicel will be here!"

 

[That Guy]

So a topical cure is certainly possible and is in fact desirable, however we're probably looking at decades as it will only happen when we fully understand the genetics behind hairloss.

You can't say that a topical cure is "certainly possible" when there is nothing to indicate, with any amount of certainty, that it is.

The only working topical (and possibly other vasodilators) that exists to grow hair is Minoxidil, but even its method of action is poorly understood and the only people who've gone from almost totally bald to fullhead (by any study or experiment I've seen) have done so in combination with wounding. From that, it's safe to say that topical application alone is not enough for minoxidil to work to its full potential.

In regards to genetics, there are very few people who give a damn about this research and so we may never fully understand the genetics behind it.

Sure, the scalp has "progenitor cells" but how do you go about activating them with a cream, lotion, etc? Is such a vehicle even a suitable method? There are so many variables of "If" X in the chain would work that it's just absurd how much research relating to the end goal needs to be done that it could take generations more.

Meanwhile, we have researchers actually preparing to enter human trials of hair multiplication. I'd much rather people spend time on something closer, that would actually work, than being like "how can we turn this thing that worked on a mouse into a shampoo so that we can make billions in product sales with minimal expense on our part?" when they consistently fail at answering the first part of the question.

its hard to follow this

so whats the consensus now this is another horse not worth betting on?

Welp, so much for the "lol dont get a hair transplant, by the time it grows in replicel will be here!"

Initial results show that it stops the hairloss and gives you some regrowth.There is nothing disappointing here, it's just the "We sad, bro" circle jerk spreading misinformation as usual.

 

[H]

You would think more beauty based company's would be pouring money into the pursuit of hair cloning besides loreal. There's clearly a demand and will be for a long time plus the more people that have hair the more shampoo will be bought.. well hopefully.

 

[br1]

From total bald to fullhead with dermarolling+minoxidil?

If you are talking about that indian study.. im sorry but that's not a full head.. It's closer to a bird's nest..

 

[mr_robot]

You can't say that a topical cure is "certainly possible" when there is nothing to indicate, with any amount of certainty, that it is.

The only working topical (and possibly other vasodilators) that exists to grow hair is Minoxidil, but even its method of action is poorly understood and the only people who've gone from almost totally bald to fullhead (by any study or experiment I've seen) have done so in combination with wounding. From that, it's safe to say that topical application alone is not enough for minoxidil to work to its full potential.

In regards to genetics, there are very few people who give a damn about this research and so we may never fully understand the genetics behind it.

Sure, the scalp has "progenitor cells" but how do you go about activating them with a cream, lotion, etc? Is such a vehicle even a suitable method? There are so many variables of "If" X in the chain would work that it's just absurd how much research relating to the end goal needs to be done that it could take generations more.

Meanwhile, we have researchers actually preparing to enter human trials of hair multiplication. I'd much rather people spend time on something closer, that would actually work, than being like "how can we turn this thing that worked on a mouse into a shampoo so that we can make billions in product sales with minimal expense on our part?" when they consistently fail at answering the first part of the question.



Initial results show that it stops the hairloss and gives you some regrowth.There is nothing disappointing here, it's just the "We sad, bro" circle jerk spreading misinformation as usual.

Again there is nothing wrong with topicals especially for treating localised inflamation which is what male pattern baldness is starting to look like, you are just basing your judgement on what is available now and there are plenty of cases of AA that have gone into remission via topicals. Everything is bad at the moment for male pattern baldness because the cause is not known, but it will get there in the end although no one knows when. That may suck for you and me but the world does not revolve around us.

As I said hair multiplication is a just sophisticated transplant, it's not a cure per-se but it is a functional cure. The fact that it is the closest thing to any kind of decent treatment is beside the point. I know you are in a hurry but topicals aren't a dead end, just the ones available at the moment are pretty poor.

 

[That Guy]

From total bald to fullhead with dermarolling+minoxidil?

If you are talking about that indian study.. im sorry but that's not a full head.. It's closer to a bird's nest..

There was a guy on these forums, I'll try to find his thread, who documented his use of treatments for like 7 years. He was NW5 when started, and like NW2 at worst in the end.

Again there is nothing wrong with topicals especially for treating localised inflamation which is what male pattern baldness is starting to look like, you are just basing your judgement on what is available now and there are plenty of cases of AA that have gone into remission via topicals. Everything is bad at the moment for male pattern baldness because the cause is not known, but it will get there in the end although no one knows when. That may suck for you and me but the world does not revolve around us.

As I said hair multiplication is a just sophisticated transplant, it's not a cure per-se but it is a functional cure. The fact that it is the closest thing to any kind of decent treatment is beside the point. I know you are in a hurry but topicals aren't a dead end, just the ones available at the moment are pretty poor.

Dude, I am basing my judgement on what Androgenetic Alopecia is — an inherited, degenerative condition resulting from sensitivity to male sex hormones. There is likely more at play as well, but we know for sure about the androgen and genetic components.

If it was just localized inflammation, Nizoral or something like that would be a functional cure.

JAK isn't a case for topicals working in Androgenetic Alopecia anytime soon because AA is a completely different condition.

and yes hair multiplication is a sophisticated transplant, but my point is that it's building hair from the ground up via stem cells. There is no doubt that between companies like Riken and L'Oreal doing this, they will learn a lot about what goes into creating hair from the cellular level.

So I feel that until such time as a proven method of growing hair that way is mastered, looking for a way to replicate that within the scalp via a topical is a waste of time. Maybe or maybe not, but when hair multiplication is a thing, it could also prevent a topic or oral solution from ever even existing.

To paraphrase Roberto:

"You could try and devise some sort of pill or whatever to remove kidney stones...but we can just blow it apart with ultrasound."

 

[br1]

There was a guy on these forums, I'll try to find his thread, who documented his use of treatments for like 7 years. He was NW5 when started, and like NW2 at worst in the end.

Wow.. please do, that would be an interesting reading... thanks.

 

[thomps1523]

There's actually been a few people that have brought back a good amount of hair from derma rolling... the only problem is it was a few in many, and that's why I think follica has found a method of wounding to make the results more consistent.

 

[hairmanic]

Can anyone please link the data that was supposedly released, I haven't been keeping up with this thread so I'd appreciate if someone could give a brief summary of any major developments in Replicel/Shiseido's treatment.

thanks

 

[lemoncloak]

http://replicel.com/20170314-2/

Can anyone please link the data that was supposedly released, I haven't been keeping up with this thread so I'd appreciate if someone could give a brief summary of any major developments in Replicel/Shiseido's treatment.

thanks

 

[Roberto_72]

There was a guy on these forums, I'll try to find his thread, who documented his use of treatments for like 7 years. He was NW5 when started, and like NW2 at worst in the end.



Dude, I am basing my judgement on what Androgenetic Alopecia is — an inherited, degenerative condition resulting from sensitivity to male sex hormones. There is likely more at play as well, but we know for sure about the androgen and genetic components.

If it was just localized inflammation, Nizoral or something like that would be a functional cure.

JAK isn't a case for topicals working in Androgenetic Alopecia anytime soon because AA is a completely different condition.

and yes hair multiplication is a sophisticated transplant, but my point is that it's building hair from the ground up via stem cells. There is no doubt that between companies like Riken and L'Oreal doing this, they will learn a lot about what goes into creating hair from the cellular level.

So I feel that until such time as a proven method of growing hair that way is mastered, looking for a way to replicate that within the scalp via a topical is a waste of time. Maybe or maybe not, but when hair multiplication is a thing, it could also prevent a topic or oral solution from ever even existing.

To paraphrase Roberto:

"You could try and devise some sort of pill or whatever to remove kidney stones...but we can just blow it apart with ultrasound."

Plus, I have a feeling that, from the point of view of the genes involved, there are no two equal hair losses. Yet there seems to be a potential remedy for all hair losses: putting hair back where it was.

 

[NewUser]

JAK isn't a case for topicals working in Androgenetic Alopecia anytime soon because AA is a completely different condition.

How can you possibly know this in advance of a jakinib-topical designed for people and clinical trials?

Jakinibs have re-grown hair in 3 immune-related hairloss disorders. And now with the tregs discovery at UCSF, it's possible Androgenetic Alopecia could also be an immune-related disorder. It may be that Androgenetic Alopecia will have to re-named alopecia tregsata before very long. Nobody knows until the science is done.

 

[That Guy]

How can you possibly know this in advance of a jakinib-topical designed for people and clinical trials?

Jakinibs have re-grown hair in 3 immune-related hairloss disorders. And now with the tregs discovery at UCSF, it's possible Androgenetic Alopecia could also be an immune-related disorder. It may be that Androgenetic Alopecia will have to re-named alopecia tregsata before very long. Nobody knows until the science is done.

All that is needed to know this is a basic understanding of the two conditions. @Swoop can elaborate better, but:

Androgenetic Alopecia is not an immune disorder even if there is an immune aspect to it. Solving any immune component is not going to resurrect destroyed organs. After a period of roughly 3 years of an area being bald due to male pattern baldness, fibrosis sets in and you're fucked; those follicles are as good as gone. In AA, the follicles just fail to produce hair.

What is known for an absolute fact is that Androgenetic Alopecia is a hereditary, degenerative condition. This was confirmed and the condition named via experiments on eunuchs in the 1950s, where the subjects were injected with testosterone. Those who started balding had a familial history of it. They didn't "age faster" or have some immune disorder — they just had hereditary hairloss that did not manifest due to a lack of male sex hormones. Further confirming this is that the greatest hairloss reversal stories generally come from MTF transsexuals.

There was also that one JAK patient who got his hair back from the AA being gone, but he was now a NW3. "B-but, a topical solution will help the jakinibs get to the follicle better for Androgenetic Alopecia!"



JAK is a cope; there is no stem-cell reviving molecule slathered in jojoba oil nor a miracle in a pill coming to a Bed, Bath & Beyond near you at any point in the foreseeable future. It's high time that we accepted it and researchers stopped wasting their time with it.

 

[paleocapa89]

Ok, I hear you, but then how can we explain MTF transgenders growing their hair back on slick bald areas after going nuclear?

 

[SkinDiesel]

All that is needed to know this is a basic understanding of the two conditions. @Swoop can elaborate better, but:
After a period of roughly 3 years of an area being bald due to male pattern baldness, fibrosis sets in and you're fucked; those follicles are as good as gone. In AA, the follicles just fail to produce hair.

Aren't the follicles dormant rather than dead?

 

[Royaume]

All that is needed to know this is a basic understanding of the two conditions. @Swoop can elaborate better, but:

Androgenetic Alopecia is not an immune disorder even if there is an immune aspect to it. Solving any immune component is not going to resurrect destroyed organs. After a period of roughly 3 years of an area being bald due to male pattern baldness, fibrosis sets in and you're fucked; those follicles are as good as gone. In AA, the follicles just fail to produce hair.

What is known for an absolute fact is that Androgenetic Alopecia is a hereditary, degenerative condition. This was confirmed and the condition named via experiments on eunuchs in the 1950s, where the subjects were injected with testosterone. Those who started balding had a familial history of it. They didn't "age faster" or have some immune disorder — they just had hereditary hairloss that did not manifest due to a lack of male sex hormones. Further confirming this is that the greatest hairloss reversal stories generally come from MTF transsexuals.

There was also that one JAK patient who got his hair back from the AA being gone, but he was now a NW3. "B-but, a topical solution will help the jakinibs get to the follicle better for Androgenetic Alopecia!"


JAK is a cope; there is no stem-cell reviving molecule slathered in jojoba oil nor a miracle in a pill coming to a Bed, Bath & Beyond near you at any point in the foreseeable future. It's high time that we accepted it and researchers stopped wasting their time with it.

@That Guy
Jefferies 2016 Healthcare Conference —

Dr. Neal Walker:
“We will be developing a topical JAK inhibitor for androgenetic alopecia, and the data on that is quite interesting in that they found that the systemic JAK inhibitor does not work for that particular indication, but the topical does, mainly as a function of the target being more superficial in the skin and not really accessible from a systemic circulation.”

http://www.hairlosscure2020.com/jef...ll-be-tested-on-androgenic-alopecia-patients/

Aclaris Therapeutics today announced that Columbia University has received a Notice of Allowance from the United States Patent and Trademark Office (USPTO) for two patent applications covering methods related to the use and administration of baricitinib (LY3009104) and decernotinib (VX-509), respectively, for the treatment of hair loss disorders and for inducing hair growth.

I really think that JAK will be the solution... I have the feeling that they know exactly that it works (before they bought Vixen Pharmaceuticals from Dr.Angela Christiano and of course she also knew it)

Good news for next week: Aclaris Therapeutics, Inc. at Jefferies Global Healthcare Conference Thursday, June 8, 2017 3:30 p.m. ET

There will be a webcast presentation:
http://www.aclaristx.com/events-and-webcasts

Since Dr.Walker clearly said that a topical does work for Androgenetic Alopecia I am very curious if there will be some new information about decernotinib.

From my point of view it is not the question anymore if JAK will work for Androgenetic Alopecia, it is more like: HOW WELL is it working?

 

[NewUser]

Androgenetic Alopecia is not an immune disorder even if there is an immune aspect to it.

Ambiguous to say the least. It sounds like you're not sure, either. I don't buy the DHT kills HF to death theory. Why do higher levels of DHT not cause baldness in all males?

If DHT is the root cause of non-scarring Androgenetic Alopecia, then why doesn't castration solve the problem? I think the DHT sensitivity theory is just a way of saying they don't know. If they did know, then Aclaris would likely shelve any plans for doing expensive clinical trials for Androgenetic Alopecia. I think blue chip shareholders don't appreciate frittering their money away on lost causes.

Scientists are now able to re-grow a type of hair in people that is genetically programmed not to, cochlear hairs.

AA, AT and AU - three vexingly difficult immune-related hair loss disorders solved by a topical ointment - and perhaps one more to go.