Regimen update - long time dutasteride/RU user

Avacado

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Virtually ZERO MtF's use estriol for anything and maybe 5% use estrone, which is usually used by advocates of the Power's method which is Rube Goldberg-esque in complexity and involves rectal administration of P4. It kind of bewilders us when you guys use estriol cause estriol is probably too weak to do anything unless you use massive quantities of it, meaning mixing your own, I suppose. RU is a waste of time for people who can use finasteride and min. I think that P4 might be a better med to mess around with as it might have effects that are positive on hair but it also might promote facial feminization.

My program and experiences were very similar to yours in that regular finasteride and min and duta all stopped working overnight it appears.

I recommend that you consider oral minoxidil, derma-rolling, P4 and estradiol. I also use an AA not often mentioned called provera which for me has only good effects and no sides. If you want to block most breast growth then look into Serms. Virtually none of the experimental stuff does anything except burn a hole in your pocket. I don't even bother with most of those threads because those folks are not actually trying to grow hair. They are doing research which is quite valuable to the cohort of the future but maybe one or two of them are seeing any results and those results are anecdotal and unscientific in terms of replication since they know what they are taking and no one is using the same stack. Weights of the subjects differ as does the type of hair loss. Only double-blind studies are valid except in the case where something appears to work for virtually everyone like oral minoxidil which is ultra easy to get and ultra cheap to use, literally pennies a day. Loniten is not expensive either but drizzling one to 15 drops daily of liquid minoxidil down the throat works better and more rapidly albeit less comprehensively than does even estradiol.
What's P4? Isn't estradiol just a bit weaker less aggressive option to estriol?

I tried oral minoxidil like 10 years ago, even at the smallest doses it made me super dizzy and nauseous. I couldn't go more then 2 days on that stuff.
 

Avacado

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Well, it's been about a week, and I'm already feeling something on the right side of my chest. It defn. feels softer and semi uncomfortable whereas the left side seems normal. I'm thinking about stopping Estriol already, this accelerated loss of mine is hard enough to deal with let alone adding gyno to the equation.

What's interesting is this tells me a few things:

1) My vehicle works really well
2) Estriol is super potent to go systemic in a week using very little
3) RU is no longer working for me at all - i'm dumping on close to 150mg a day, maybe more - 11 years seems to be the shelf life for me

I need to find something else to add, I guess another AA. This just feels like the end of the road for me. Maybe ORM? Another poster seems to think that works.
I guess I should add there are 2 other variables here, but they seem like unlikely candidates to contribute to an early stage of gyno. When I started the estriol I was also starting a new batch of RU from alibaba, so that's something, and half of my daily RU doses are now coming from Kanes pre-made KB solution. But again, seems like unlikely contributors as I've been on RU at high doses forever.
 

JaneyElizabeth

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What's P4? Isn't estradiol just a bit weaker less aggressive option to estriol?

I tried oral minoxidil like 10 years ago, even at the smallest doses it made me super dizzy and nauseous. I couldn't go more then 2 days on that stuff.
I don't know how much oral minoxidil you took but remember that there are no absolutes since titration is our friend. The amounts that Rob Winter recommends to females are minuscule @ .25mg plus 25 mg of spironolactone. P4 is progesterone, usually Prometrium which can be used orally, rectally and in cream form like Biestro. For males, anything from .25 mg to 5 mg is recommended generally but many of us have used even 10 mg to 20 mg daily. @bridgeburn used 10mg ever other day. I have been at 12.5mg since October but recently halved that because it was bringing my beard back as laser removal never complete eradicates the beard and I was seeing more body hair regeneration than I wanted.

In terms of strength and binding ability, estradiol is much stronger than the other two and we have confirmation by many that E2, which is the scientific notation of estradiol can restore a full head of hair but some feminization has to be tolerated. I have posted pics of breast growth by MTF's in general and it is usually paltry and insignificant but....not for me or @bridegeburn. Both of us had outstanding breast growth from an MtF perspective. Rob Winter's has two or three oral min articles about both males and females and dosage. His knowledge of the field is amazing even though to me, massage is either too rough and can cause sheds or it takes too long(up to 40 minutes a day) but I tend to agree with every other thing that he says as he has encyclopedic knowledge.
 
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JaneyElizabeth

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If you want to learn more about hormonal means of hair regrowth and the differences, this is my thread:


This is the famous thread by @bridgeburn, where I also write a lot since he is off enjoying his new-found long and luscious locks:


Rob Winter's site is here and you have to remember the address because if you type perfect hair forever you get thousands and thousands of references to a cartoon that apparently has nothing to do with hair at all. Here is his article on HRT meds that inspired me:


On both of the hormonal threads on this site, we also take extensively about oral min since it is so powerful as to be up there with spironolactone, bica, duta, finasteride and estrogens in general.
 

David123r

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Posting a quick update here so I have this for tracking. I'm making a minor(ish) change to my regimen and wanted to post. First my back story:

I started on Avodart when it first came out in I wanna say 2002, so I've been on it for like almost 18 years now. I've also used some minoxidil solution and Nizoral as well for the entire journey. I added RU in 2010 and continue to use the 4 today. I've never really had success, meaning I've never had regrowth or a complete stoppage of hairloss, but I do believe I've had a couple of periods of time where the loss slowed to where I was content, but other wise I've always continually slowly loss.

The first time I saw a bump was in 2010 when I started RU, lasted for about 8/9 months. Then when I added Stemox as my vehicle in 2015 I felt I saw another bump, and again in 2016 when increased my Stemox/RU daily dosage. However, since about 2018 it's been a steady decline. Considering I've been on hairloss products for so long, I should be thrilled I still have what I have.

Now, long story short, I'm losing again and fast. I mean, every couple of months there's a noticeable difference, it sucks. I'm taking extensive pics although I have no idea why, they just confirm what I see in the mirror. Here is what I changed as of 5 days ago, 2/6, I would take 6 ML of Stemox with about 150mg of RU and use that daily mixed using RU from Kane and/or Alibiaba. I'm now only going to use 3 ML of stemox with RU and my other 3 ML of RU I will use Kanes pre made with KB solution. That's actually probably weaker then my mixed solution, but I need to try something new. Here's the big thing, I'm also adding 30mg of Estriol to the daily mix.

We'll see what happens, I really can't see how adding a measly 30mg of Estriol daily is going to do something but I'm wicked desperate. Sorry for all the words here for those that actually read this.

Old Regimen
0.5 Avodart Daily
6 ML Stemox, 150mg RU Daily
1 ML Minoxidil Daily
Nizoral (2/3 times a week)

New Regimen
0.5 Avodart Daily
3 ML Stemox, 100mg RU Daily + 30mg of Estriol Daily
3 ML Kanes RU with KB Solution Daily

1 ML Minoxidil Daily
Nizoral (2/3 times a week)
Do you now If i can out dutasteride powder in minoxidil solution and use it?
 

Isneezedsohard

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Well, it's been about a week, and I'm already feeling something on the right side of my chest. It defn. feels softer and semi uncomfortable whereas the left side seems normal. I'm thinking about stopping Estriol already, this accelerated loss of mine is hard enough to deal with let alone adding gyno to the equation.

What's interesting is this tells me a few things:

1) My vehicle works really well
2) Estriol is super potent to go systemic in a week using very little
3) RU is no longer working for me at all - i'm dumping on close to 150mg a day, maybe more - 11 years seems to be the shelf life for me

I need to find something else to add, I guess another AA. This just feels like the end of the road for me. Maybe ORM? Another poster seems to think that works.
R u using estriol topically? I just started using it
 

JaneyElizabeth

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R u using estriol topically? I just started using it
I usually used Biestro and only used estriol alone when I couldn't get Biestro which was much less available five years ago on Amazon. Now their estradiol version seems to pop in and out of the marketplace on Amazon but that's preferred over the other two. Estriol might work better though with an AA but it is still likely to commence breast growth as is bica, spironolactone and CPA.
 

Avacado

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I usually used Biestro and only used estriol alone when I couldn't get Biestro which was much less available five years ago on Amazon. Now their estradiol version seems to pop in and out of the marketplace on Amazon but that's preferred over the other two. Estriol might work better though with an AA but it is still likely to commence breast growth as is bica, spironolactone and CPA.
I just don't see how Estradiol would even be worth trying for me seeing how I only lasted about 7 days on Estriol.
 

JaneyElizabeth

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I just don't see how Estradiol would even be worth trying for me seeing how I only lasted about 7 days on Estriol.
I mean, I can't say since there is little research. MtF's virtually always use E2 or E1 which is estrone but estrone use is rare and mostly via metabolitic conversion in the liver. It's supposed to theoretically cause more breast growth which I doubt but still, you don't want that.
 

Isneezedsohard

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1 pump of bio-estro. It says:
  • Each full press of the pump provides approximately 1mg of natural Estriol USP and 0.25mg of natural Estradiol USP.
 

Avacado

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1 pump of bio-estro. It says:
  • Each full press of the pump provides approximately 1mg of natural Estriol USP and 0.25mg of natural Estradiol USP.
Is that like a foam or a gel you're rubbing in ? Or can that be dissolved into a liquid vehicle?
 

Pls_NW-1

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E2 is much more powerful than Estriol.
If you want to avoid gyno you cannot use E2
A man´s rule is to not touch opposite sex hormones lol.
Never do that just for hair loss, not worth it, too many (side) effects for a cis male. But sure, it will restore your hair like magic.
 
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