PDRN, an unknown powerhouse for androgenic alopecia

[Gegen]

How can you say that bro?
I mean there are no studies about the long-term use of this stuff on your head.
Dont get me wrong, I appreciate all your findings and posts about Kintor, PDRN, etc. but people should be cautious when using stuff like this

That's polynucleotide from salmon sperm, not some weird all-synthetized molecule. No way it will do anything more powerful than tiny irritations or things like this ( if there is side effects ).
But for Kintor I'd be more cautious though.

 

[FollicleGuardian]

What protocol are you going to use for the cream? Daily?

Yes daily. Day 1: microneedling and then PDRN cream. Day 2: no needling but PDRN cream with dmso. And then repeat.

 

[FollicleGuardian]

That's polynucleotide from salmon sperm, not some weird all-synthetized molecule. No way it will do anything more powerful than tiny irritations or things like this ( if there is side effects ).
But for Kintor I'd be more cautious though.

Seconding this. This is just my thoughts based off my research, and not medical advice. Do your own research obviously.

 

[FollicleGuardian]

BR Pharma recently applied for a patent for their new WNT signal promoter, polydeoxyribonucleotide.

@FollicleGuardian what are the consequences of this?

The only consequence of this is that another company can’t sell PDRN for hair loss purposes. The placentex brand will still exist.

 

[FollicleGuardian]

So we will still be able to get it cheap?

Yeah

 

[Gegen]

The only consequence of this is that another company can’t sell PDRN for hair loss purposes. The placentex brand will still exist.

BR Pharma is planing to do an optimal concentration / posology for hairloss ?

 

[FollicleGuardian]

BR Pharma is planing to do an optimal concentration / posology for hairloss ?

I really don’t know what their plan is for it unfortunately.. :/

 

[waynakyo]

Yes daily. Day 1: microneedling and then PDRN cream. Day 2: no needling but PDRN cream with dmso. And then repeat.

I think for this one you might need the deep wounding. The 0.5mm is for absorption, doesn't do enough wounding. I think more like 1mm once a week followed by this.


I got it on Ebay by the way. An indian seller with a 100% score is selling this. Once enough people get their hands on it we should open a thread about this and share before pictures and regimen.


PS: if I was a salmon I would be laughing my pink *** off.

 

[FollicleGuardian]

I think for this one you might need the deep wounding. The 0.5mm is for absorption, doesn't do enough wounding. I think more like 1mm once a week followed by this.


PS: if I was a salmon I would be laughing my pink *** off.

0.25 mm for absorption. 1-1.5 mm every 10-14 days.

 

[polishkickbuttowski]

Yes the kDa is too high. I am going to do 0.25 mm dermarolling 3-4 x a week before application and use DMSO for penetration.

Are you on a topical antiandrogen? If yes are you worried about the frequent microneedling increasing the absorption of that?

 

[FollicleGuardian]

Are you on a topical antiandrogen? If yes are you worried about the frequent microneedling increasing the absorption of that?

Yes I do, but not concerned. 0.25 mm is not going to be a route 66 straight to my blood vessels, so i’m not concerned.

 

[Selb]

Fig. 2. Digital images of hairs at the " V " point in patient 1, group...

Download scientific diagram | Digital images of hairs at the " V " point in patient 1, group 1 with PHL (A, C) before and (B, D) at one week after the last session of treatment with the thulium laser and intra-perifollicular PDRN injections. Original magnification (A, B) ×1 and (C, D) ×40...

www.researchgate.net

I took a look at the article (I think it was linked earlier) of the laser/PDRN treatment. Looks like PDRN alone is fairly effective, even with only 12 sessions. Daily applications would work too I think, even if they aren’t mesotherapy.

 

[TurboFixer]

I can't wait to get my hands on some of this stuff holy sh*t

 

[wilfred]

Looking on ebay there seems to be higher percentage PDRN lotions 0.2% rather than .08% from south Korea.

 

[waynakyo]

Hmm... so this is not completely new. Some people have been commercializing it together with other treatments (here and here, gangnam style)

Here are two others studies where PDRN has been combined with thulium laser. (I will get back to this in a minute)

1. For Hair growth:

Medical Lasers

Sung Bin Cho, Zhenlong Zheng, Jin-Soo Kang, and Heesu Kim. Med Lasers 2016;5:22-8. https://doi.org/10.25289/ML.2016.5.1.22

www.jkslms.or.kr

One week after the final treatment session, patients treated with the thulium laser and PDRN showed clinical improvements in mean hair counts (20.4 ± 15.7%; p=0.005) and mean hair thickness (53.1 ± 31.1%; p <0.001), compared to baseline values. Patients treated with mesotherapy and PDRN also showed clinical improvements in mean hair counts (9.7 ± 7.4%; p=0.007) and mean hair thickness (16.1 ± 25%; p>0.05). Further statistical analysis showed that combined treatment with the thulium laser and PDRN injections resulted in greater improvement in hair thickness (p=0.029) than combined application of mesotherapy and PDRN, but not in hair counts (p>0.05).


2. For Grey hair: Just an anecdotal evidence here as they rightly put it. (see picture for hair growth!)

Medical Lasers

Yoon Jin Choi, Suhyun Cho, Young Koo Kim, and Dae Suk Kim. Med Lasers 2017;6:37-40. https://doi.org/10.25289/ML.2017.6.1.37

www.jkslms.or.kr

So:

- If used effectively (there is a mention of derma rolling in one of the links) PDRN can be as good as Samumed and/or Follica
- Why I never heard of thulium laser? Lasers have done wonders in hair removal, skin regeneration, it cured my fungus infected nails. The combination yielding (20.4 ± 15.7%; p=0.005) is exactly as good as minoxidil as far as I remember. The thickness increase of average 50% is impressive. And the photos prove it, assuming they are honest.

Someone can post the pictures if they want. They are impressive. My upload connection is slow.


NOW TO LASER
I am going to open a new thread about the laser IF this has not been posted before. Let me know. This is too important to be buried.

2019 article

Laser-assisted Hair Regrowth: Fractional Laser Modalities for the Treatment of Androgenic Alopecia

A large proportion of the population is at sometime affected by androgenic alopecia. Current therapies consisting of minoxidil or finasteride are often the first choices for treatment. These regimens are limited by their efficacy, side-effect profiles, ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Reviews a bunch of articles showing efficacy, but:
Preliminary evidence suggests that fractional laser therapies have a positive effect on hair regrowth; however, most of the literature is limited to case reports, and small prospective and retrospective series. Further studies, in the form of well-designed randomized controlled trials, are necessary to evaluate the efficacy


I think we need to look further into both. I maintain the opinion that for this you need more wounding (which is what the laser is doing) and a 0.25mm won't do it I think.

 

[waynakyo]

Folks for those who want to try I strongly encourage you to buy one of those digital microscopes to take pictures of the scalp. This seems to work by improving an underlying scalp problem, which I bet all male pattern baldness have. I have posted on that before. If you see an imporvement in scalp after 6 weeks then you know what to expect hair growth wise.

Attached a picture of my scalp condition. Compare it with the donor side (mine too) and you can tell what the problem is. These yellow dots have been discussed as common finding in the literature.

 

[John Difool]

It tried buying it but it was sold out:

Polydeoxyribonucleotide sodium pdrn injection - Placentex integro

 

[FollicleGuardian]

Looking on ebay there seems to be higher percentage PDRN lotions 0.2% rather than .08% from south Korea.

Nice find!

 

[FollicleGuardian]

It tried buying it but it was sold out:

Polydeoxyribonucleotide sodium pdrn injection - Placentex integro

Did you try farmasia loreto gallo or superhumanstore? Their vials are like 12 euro instead of 90.

 

[FollicleGuardian]

Hmm... so this is not completely new. Some people have been commercializing it together with other treatments (here and here, gangnam style)

Here are two others studies where PDRN has been combined with thulium laser. (I will get back to this in a minute)

1. For Hair growth:

Medical Lasers

Sung Bin Cho, Zhenlong Zheng, Jin-Soo Kang, and Heesu Kim. Med Lasers 2016;5:22-8. https://doi.org/10.25289/ML.2016.5.1.22

www.jkslms.or.kr

One week after the final treatment session, patients treated with the thulium laser and PDRN showed clinical improvements in mean hair counts (20.4 ± 15.7%; p=0.005) and mean hair thickness (53.1 ± 31.1%; p <0.001), compared to baseline values. Patients treated with mesotherapy and PDRN also showed clinical improvements in mean hair counts (9.7 ± 7.4%; p=0.007) and mean hair thickness (16.1 ± 25%; p>0.05). Further statistical analysis showed that combined treatment with the thulium laser and PDRN injections resulted in greater improvement in hair thickness (p=0.029) than combined application of mesotherapy and PDRN, but not in hair counts (p>0.05).


2. For Grey hair: Just an anecdotal evidence here as they rightly put it. (see picture for hair growth!)

Medical Lasers

Yoon Jin Choi, Suhyun Cho, Young Koo Kim, and Dae Suk Kim. Med Lasers 2017;6:37-40. https://doi.org/10.25289/ML.2017.6.1.37

www.jkslms.or.kr

So:

- If used effectively (there is a mention of derma rolling in one of the links) PDRN can be as good as Samumed and/or Follica
- Why I never heard of thulium laser? Lasers have done wonders in hair removal, skin regeneration, it cured my fungus infected nails. The combination yielding (20.4 ± 15.7%; p=0.005) is exactly as good as minoxidil as far as I remember. The thickness increase of average 50% is impressive. And the photos prove it, assuming they are honest.

Someone can post the pictures if they want. They are impressive. My upload connection is slow.


NOW TO LASER
I am going to open a new thread about the laser IF this has not been posted before. Let me know. This is too important to be buried.

2019 article

Laser-assisted Hair Regrowth: Fractional Laser Modalities for the Treatment of Androgenic Alopecia

A large proportion of the population is at sometime affected by androgenic alopecia. Current therapies consisting of minoxidil or finasteride are often the first choices for treatment. These regimens are limited by their efficacy, side-effect profiles, ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Reviews a bunch of articles showing efficacy, but:
Preliminary evidence suggests that fractional laser therapies have a positive effect on hair regrowth; however, most of the literature is limited to case reports, and small prospective and retrospective series. Further studies, in the form of well-designed randomized controlled trials, are necessary to evaluate the efficacy


I think we need to look further into both. I maintain the opinion that for this you need more wounding (which is what the laser is doing) and a 0.25mm won't do it I think.

Awesome dissection, thank you! It’s not completely new, but the novel thing is to do daily applications of this stuff. Also I agree you need deeper wounding. 0.25 mm is just for absorption which should be enough, and 1-1.5 mm every 10-14 days for WIHN.