Paul's Propecia Suicide Story/ Propecia Side Effects

[Chris Evan]

Do you think finasteride can cause all of that? here's another vid for the same guy talking about his side effects with details

he said he got permanent sexual dysfunction penis shrinkage to 50% and his penis got thinner
and got suicidal thoughts, depression and insomnia
he said that he's 17 months off taking propecia and still having sexual dysfuction and can't get an erection at all

what's your thoughts? Do you think finasteride is that dangerous?

 

[Chemichal Castration]

It seems he has other problems other than finasteride related side effects. It's within the realm of possibility. I wouldnt say he is lying but I wouldnt say what he is saying is relevant for the most of us (he certainly must be exaggerating somethings for sure).

These kinds of posts arent helpful. People should rather understand why things work, instead of wondering if A, B or C reports good or bad results with it. Jumping on treatments or avoiding them just by isolated cases of major success/failure is pure ignorance (not insulting anyone just leaving my 2 cents).

 

[hemingway_the_mercenary]

these people should just go on a cycle of steroids like 500mg Test and 50mg proviron a day and theyd be healed within a few months at most imo

sometimes you need drugs to recover from problems of other drugs

 

[Ollie]

these people should just go on a cycle of steroids like 500mg Test and 50mg proviron a day and theyd be healed within a few months at most imo

sometimes you need drugs to recover from problems of other drugs

You seem to be well versed on the research behind AA's in general Hemingway. Do you buy into the ideas that finasteride could somehow re-enginer the AR? Or that quitting finasteride could somehow desensitise the AR to the point it no longer recognises androgens - which would explain why some PFS users have gotten worse from doctors putting them on TRT? I always assumed that sh*t to be impossible as new AR is presumably formulated under instruction of your DNA.

 

[Ikarus]

I dislike stories like this because it leads to a negative connotations around the medication, just because it happens to a tiny percentage of finasteride users doesn’t mean it happens to everyone.

And 50% of penile shrinkage? Sorry, but that’s a crock of sh*t. Someone on this site who got surgically castrated said he experienced a 20% shrinkage so I don’t know if I can believe the significant amount of shrinkage from just finasteride.

Unless he just had a bad reaction?

 

[Ikarus]

These "negative connotations" are legit. I also thought these side effects and stories were overblown...untill it happens to you. The side effects are real and in most cases it's a matter of time before you get them.

Blocking one of the most important male hormones for a long time isn't the same as taking aspirin.

I’m on spironolactone and estradiol. Transgender women who use this combination don’t even experience such a significant penile shrink, and as I mentioned before about the surgical castration. The amount of people who have adverse reactions to finasteride is so minimal, that I wouldn’t even take their experiences into consideration.

I’m just wondering though, what is your ideas on how to help male pattern baldness?

 

[Bigbone]

These "negative connotations" are legit. I also thought these side effects and stories were overblown...untill it happens to you. The side effects are real and in most cases it's a matter of time before you get them.

Blocking one of the most important male hormones for a long time isn't the same as taking aspirin.

Based on what? What says it's the most important male hormone? How come millions of people are able to suppress it with zero issues?

It has been years since finasteride was released and to my knowledge, there's still no research that confirms persistent sides even exist. Correct me if I'm wrong. And then we have studies like these, that are quite surprising:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5264352/

"A total of 4% of finasteride and 2% of placebo subjects discontinued the study due to sexual adverse events. A surprising finding in this study was that in these subjects who withdrew from the study due to sexual adverse events, 50% of finasteride users experienced continual sexual side effects after discontinuing finasteride, while 59% of placebo subjects noted continual sexual side effects. Thus, in this study persistent sexual side effects were reported more in placebo subjects than in patients treated with finasteride."

Mental health issues are most likely the cause for the majority of PFS-sufferers. However, I'm not trying to downplay your experience, I do believe that a few are sensitive to hormonal changes. But for you to say that it's only a matter of time, based on your own experience and anecdotal evidence is fucked up. That's how a flat-earther would argue.

 

[Chemichal Castration]

Fina/duta is pure poison imo. I would never advise anyone to take it orally after all these years of experience.

The side effects are definitely from fina, these are not as uncommon as you may think. And lol if you still believe "the official numbers" from Merck.

The anecdotal evidence is enormous. Try everything else before taking an anti androgen.

I didn't have any relevant sides from it, but cant say that I got much out of it either.
What would you do then to maintain your hair without AA's?
AA's are the best option there is right now, whether topical AR blockers which might have less sides or systemic ones. Finasteride isnt considered anti androgen.

Everything is important within our body, of course some things are more important than others but every treatment has its good and bad sides. This is a dilemma. If you care enough to take the risks or if you are so desperate to overlook the consequences you and I and everyone else will probably do things they otherwise wouldn't do. Its up to everyone to make their judgement hence the importance of information, of not getting biased. It has always been and always will be like this.

 

[Bigbone]

I've done this discussion too many times now and it always ends the same way. People who are balding are desperate and don't want to hear anything negative about finasteride. It's normal, I was one of you once.

We're not going to have a discussion, I want the research that supports your claims.

And enough studies on DHT that prove it's a very imporant hormone for males.

Links?

Dismissing people with PFS having mental issues is what I did when I first took fina too. And clinging to those "official studies" was something me and others did too.

The hyped up studies that were supposed to prove everyone wrong came to the same conclusion as well.

 

[Chemichal Castration]

What do you mean by hair system Pigeon?

You're right, finasteride is still a AA even though its a selective one. Apologies for the misinformation.

 

[hemingway_the_mercenary]

You seem to be well versed on the research behind AA's in general Hemingway. Do you buy into the ideas that finasteride could somehow re-enginer the AR? Or that quitting finasteride could somehow desensitise the AR to the point it no longer recognises androgens - which would explain why some PFS users have gotten worse from doctors putting them on TRT? I always assumed that sh*t to be impossible as new AR is presumably formulated under instruction of your DNA.

finasteride thorows off the dht to estradiol ratio in your body which can result in a reduction of the AR in areas where there is high demand for it. For trt estradiol really need to be controlled and be in the ideal range. Lots of trt docs are terrible imo

 

[Bigbone]

I can post multiple links and it still won't convince you. Google about DHT, enough material on it why it's an imporant male hormone.

And don't be blinded by "official studies", ever heard about junk science? Manipulating data to get the results they want is not uncommon.

It will convince me if there's actual research behind it, unlike you I'm basing my opinions on facts. So, please, give me some links.

In this case, what would the winning be from manipulating the results?

You're free to believe whatever you want, I couldn't care less. The issue for me is that you might be turning people off treatment with your anecdotal evidence. I'm now sitting here with a hair system that you're now promoting and don't know sh*t about, while I could've had my own hair because of people like you.
I've never denied side-effects neither am I against discussion regarding them. You however are not discussing it, you just make ridiculous claims and leave it at that.

 

[itsjustsimon]

Look at the thread title Einstein.

For some reason I thought I’m in the CB thread. My bad, sorry.

 

[Vinc2097]

Fina/duta is pure poison imo. I would never advise anyone to take it orally after all these years of experience.

The side effects are definitely from fina, these are not as uncommon as you may think. And lol if you still believe "the official numbers" from Merck.

The anecdotal evidence is enormous. Try everything else before taking an anti androgen.

i wonder the reality of sides form 320 mg saw palmetto.. even if its ''natural''. I doubt it will do any permanent impotence sh*t and all but from my personal use. (5-6 months +) until now. My sperm is definitely 50 % more watery and in less quatity.. sometimes i masturbate for the first time in 2-3 days and its crazy how low the sperm quatity is when its coming out..

After the first month i didnt mind at all but then the months passed and its not getting better at all.

 

[Bigbone]

I'm basing my opinion on my personal experience with fina, other men I know irl + the thousands of men who experienced the same. Buy hey they're ancedotes so we can ignore that right? The only thing that's important is Merck's official studies right?

I'm not telling one to ignore anecdotal stories, but there are reasons to be skeptical. What tells us that the cause of their problems had anything to do with finasteride? I just linked to a study that came to the conclusion more men in the placebo group had persistent sides, which in theory could mean every single one who reported persistent sides could be related to placebo. But yeah, let's ignore that and keep on guessing what's true or not.
Research also found out that ED and other sexual issues are becoming more common with time, there are countless reasons to why.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5313296/

"In a multi-centre worldwide study, involving more than 27,000 men from eight countries, Rosen et al. (2) showed an ED prevalence of 8% among men aged 20–29 years and 11% among those aged 30–39 years."

Did you know more and more dermatologists are against subscribing fina, etc? Did you know transexuals use it too

Really, mind giving me another link to your claims? Looking at each individual country the finasteride prescriptions seems to be going up each year.

You're using a system? Be happy you never tried blocking hormones then.

Yes, and I'm not happy with it, it's not suitable for a young person. It was getting one that actually pushed me to start medication.

And I'm sorry I'm not going to do research for you, I have better things to do. If you find these claims ridiculous then that's your problem. I can only warn men and they're free to choose in the end.

Yeah, right lol. You're one of the most active members on here and suddenly you have better things to do. I'm just going to assume you don't have anything to back up your claims. This is how it usually ends.

 

[Bigbone]

I'm not posting "studies" because it doesn't matter, it's clear you made up your mind.

It's because you can't. It takes 1 sec to link one but that apparently is too much of a hassle, yet saying that finasteride is poison in every other post isn't.

And hey hop on fina right now for a year and let us know what you experience if you think it's so safe.

I'm celebrating one year on it in a couple of weeks.

 

[Ollie]

finasteride thorows off the dht to estradiol ratio in your body which can result in a reduction of the AR in areas where there is high demand for it. For trt estradiol really need to be controlled and be in the ideal range. Lots of trt docs are terrible imo

Whilst I don’t think you’re on any 5ar inhibitor, you might find these interesting.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/16839328/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/26134065/

 

[-Synergy-]

There has to be some risk but the side effect of not taking finasteride or dutasteride can be chronic depression when you lose all your hair to early. I thought of it as 50/50 even though the study said about 3%. I am keeping a journal so I know to stop at testicular pain before impotence. I’m not being sarcastic he could have stopped at strange thoughts. He switched to minoxidil next because there are bags under his eyes or guy is havin a hard time sleeping? The doctor says the nut ach will go away with continued use. I ask why the hell its there in the first place?

these people should just go on a cycle of steroids like 500mg Test and 50mg proviron a day and theyd be healed within a few months at most imo

sometimes you need drugs to recover from problems of other drugs

And then more drugs because I like to party. Would v**** work though if this started happening?

 

[Ikarus]

I've done this discussion too many times now and it always ends the same way. People who are balding are desperate and don't want to hear anything negative about finasteride. It's normal, I was one of you once.

I can only warn people.

And enough studies on DHT that prove it's a very imporant hormone for males.

Dismissing people with PFS having mental issues is what I did when I first took fina too. And clinging to those "official studies" was something me and others did too.

But sadly it's only when you experience it yourself that you know how much value these studies have... And yes I believe most men will end up having side effects on fina, it's only a matter of time.

Do as you wish, I was also not able to be convinced when I started taking fina.

DHT might be an important hormone for males, but it's still the same hormone which is widely known to cause hair loss and acne. Male hormones evidently cause physical and mental disadvantages: men are aggressive, men have rough skin, men are more likely to experience acne and oily skin, men are more likely to experience hair loss, men develop rhino skin.

Dismissing people with PFS is the best choice that people can do. Statistically, there are under 15,500 reported adverse finasteride reactions world wide (stated by the PFS Foundation website). That's objectively an insignificant amount of people, especially when you keep in mind that 1,587 of those people got depression as an alleged side effect (I'm prioritising this since that seems to be the biggest concern here...).

 

[Ikarus]

If you're a young man and badling aggressively this your only valid option imo.

A hair system, aka wig.

Check this out;

No need for you to nuke your hormones.

A hair system should be for people who do not respond to any medications, since that would be the only viable option. Nuke the hormones, they're obviously not doing men much good.