P144 - topical tgf-beta inhibitor

[Bryan]

I wish I could figure out the mechanism of curcumin's decrease of testosterone stimulated growth. That would answer some questions for me.

I'm curious to know what kind of an answer you're looking for, and what questions those are that you have.

 

[docj077]

I wish I could figure out the mechanism of curcumin's decrease of testosterone stimulated growth. That would answer some questions for me.

I'm curious to know what kind of an answer you're looking for, and what questions those are that you have.

Well, I just wanted to know what the target of curcumin and any of its analogues might be. I'm guessing that it's a competitive inhibitor at the level of the androgen receptor and prevents the binding of functional androgens. I'm not sure what kind of bond the molecules are using to compete at the level of the receptor, but the above study mentions the need for the presence of a strong hydrogen bond donor group. If it was a covalent bond, it'd be better.

That's really all I'm looking for right now. I'd also be interested to know if the binding of these analogues has any effect on androgen receptor degradation.

The fact that some of these molecules they used in the above study were superior to hydroxyflutamide also interests me.

 

[michael barry]

Doctor,

Do you think perhaps the curcumin only bonds where DHT might have, but not other androgens?


The reason I suggest this is that, if curcumin were a complete and total "receptor blocker", and we know its detectable in the body for up to 12 hours, and that you take it twice a day...........................you should be having some pretty tough side effects, but youre not.


Flutamide, for the mere week I took it, made me feel awful man.

 

[hair today gone tomorrow]

Doctor,

Do you think perhaps the curcumin only bonds where DHT might have, but not other androgens?


The reason I suggest this is that, if curcumin were a complete and total "receptor blocker", and we know its detectable in the body for up to 12 hours, and that you take it twice a day...........................you should be having some pretty tough side effects, but youre not.


Flutamide, for the mere week I took it, made me feel awful man.

I dunno about the tough side effects...I mean my curcumin supplements is 450 mg per capsule and im taking 2 a day...I haven't noticed any difference. Keep in mind men with gyno have supplemented with 5grams or more of turmeric a day. And im sure Indians are eating it everyday.

 

[Bryan]

I doubt that curcumin is active as an antiandrogen when taken orally --- otherwise, side-effects would have LONG been reported in societies that use it. But there definitely seems to be a potential for such an effect when it's used topically. Witness that hamster study I referenced earlier.

 

[docj077]

I doubt that curcumin is active as an antiandrogen when taken orally --- otherwise, side-effects would have LONG been reported in societies that use it. But there definitely seems to be a potential for such an effect when it's used topically. Witness that hamster study I referenced earlier.

This man speaks the truth.

 

[hair today gone tomorrow]

I doubt that curcumin is active as an antiandrogen when taken orally --- otherwise, side-effects would have LONG been reported in societies that use it. But there definitely seems to be a potential for such an effect when it's used topically. Witness that hamster study I referenced earlier.

This man speaks the truth.

just out of curiosity if he speaks the truth why do you take curcumin internally at a dosage of 600mg?

 

[Riordan]

there are no sides to curcumin. Indians are eating curcumin daily (since childhood) bcos it's part of their daily spice. and these people have thick head of hair.

 

[docj077]

I doubt that curcumin is active as an antiandrogen when taken orally --- otherwise, side-effects would have LONG been reported in societies that use it. But there definitely seems to be a potential for such an effect when it's used topically. Witness that hamster study I referenced earlier.

This man speaks the truth.

just out of curiosity if he speaks the truth why do you take curcumin internally at a dosage of 600mg?

I don't take it for its possible antiandrogen effects.

 

[Beethoven]

Beethoven, you'd probably be interested in reading the study "Growth suppression of hamster flank organs by topical application of catechins, alizarin, curcumin, and myristoleic acid", Liao et al, Arch Dermatol Res (2001) 293: 200-205.

They dissolved curcumin in ethanol and applied it to hamster flank organs. 1 mg curcumin in 5 ul (micro-liters) of alcohol. They measured an 87% decrease in the testosterone-stimulated growth of the organ (which was even a bit greater than what gamma-linolenic acid was able to do!). Interestingly, they also measured a 31% decrease in DHT-stimulated growth from the curcumin..

You might be interested to know that plain old EGCG (like from green tea) did better against DHT than curcumin did, with an astonishing inhibition of 97%!!

Bryan

Thanks Bryan, but I'm a little confused about green tea after this discussion:
http://www.hairlosstalk.com/discussions/viewtopic.php?t=31510

I'm hoping that fluridil (aided with nizoral) will "fight" against DHT for me, so I'm actually interested in topical Curcumin more for the tgf-beta inhibition.

 

[stax]

According to a pretty knowledgable poster that used to post at HLH stated that Spin Trap C have the ability to reverse fibrosis via inhibition of TGF-b1.


His name is 5001matt, and read his long post in this link.


http://www.hairlosshelp.com/forums/mess ... TARTPAGE=2

 

[Jacob]

Curcumin as a topical isn't really all that feasible right now. Curcumin stains the skin a yellowish color and even touching the capsules that the herb comes in can lead to the powder getting everywhere. Applying it to areas with male pattern baldness is possible, but I'd wait until something better comes out that is a clear solution. A curcumin analogue or a topical TGF-beta inhibitor developed by drug companies will be our best bet.

Nighttime it should be fine. Someone in another forum may be having Elsom make a Tumeric(the curcumin)/GTE combination. At least theirs won't stain(I forget the reason for this..something to do with their tech) I've used both dark and bright colored topicals from them...none of them stained.

 

[Jacob]

I had forgotten about this: http://www.tetrahydrocurcuminoids.com/

As Ancient Way states:

non-staining curcumin antioxidants

http://www.ancientway.com/catalog/produ ... 142ebfcb7d

 

[abcdefg]

Is there any treatment today that actually works safely for male pattern baldness? sometimes you just feel we are still really far away from any real cure to male pattern baldness. I have my doubts science will piece all this crap together in our lifetimes. Its obviously a very complicated disease dealing with a lot of things we have not begun to understand especially relationships between all these things.

 

[Selb]

Bumping this thread. Been reading though this article:


https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0022202X15323137

And it looks like Accutane induced hair loss might be reversed or stopped by topical TGF-β2/TGF-β receptor II antagonists. Are there any safe topical creams or solutions I can try that fit this criteria? I’m not sure if circumin fits that criteria. I’ve also been looking into disitertide, a peptide inhibitor.

@pegasus2 @Canuto @DoctorHouse if you have some time to help

 

[Mr White]

Where can we learn more about peptides and why is everyone so excited about them? I've read several testimonials on PT-141 for the treatment of ED and it seems to be very effective.

 

[Selb]

Where can we learn more about peptides and why is everyone so excited about them? I've read several testimonials on PT-141 for the treatment of ED and it seems to be very effective.

I’d love to learn more about it too. Maybe moreplatesmoredates can make or has made a video about it. And for ED? Interesting. Have you heard anything about it reducing fibrosis in the scalp to help with hair loss?

 

[LouisSarkozy]

would love to know that aswell as i plan to go on a nuclear accutane dose

 

[pegasus2]

Bumping this thread. Been reading though this article:


https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0022202X15323137

And it looks like Accutane induced hair loss might be reversed or stopped by topical TGF-β2/TGF-β receptor II antagonists. Are there any safe topical creams or solutions I can try that fit this criteria? I’m not sure if circumin fits that criteria. I’ve also been looking into disitertide, a peptide inhibitor.

@pegasus2 @Canuto @DoctorHouse if you have some time to help

TGFb1 is the bad one. Once you stop using Accutane TGFB2 will normalize, you don't want to eliminate it.

 

[Selb]

TGFb1 is the bad one. Once you stop using Accutane TGFB2 will normalize, you don't want to eliminate it.

I’ve stopped using it for around two years now :/

if it’s normalized at this point could be that I’m just genetic balding now?