Newbie Here - Ferratin/ Iron Dose Question

Sammz

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Hello, I hope someone can help.

I just checked my serum Ferrarin and it is 46ug

I suffer from hair fall and have probably 50% less hair than I did 10 years ago.

I understand that 70-100 would be a good number to aim for for hair loss in terms of iron? Is this correct?

I have a iron supplement 65 mg one a day. Not sure if this is the best thing to take? How can I ascertain the right dose. Also I have heard about ferrous fumerate. Is this something I should be considering instead/ as well.

I plan to get retested maybe in 6-8 weeks to check my levels again

Any advice appreciated!

Thank you :)
 
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Admin

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Having just been diagnosed with low ferritin myself, it's important to know the details on this supplement. You do absolutely do not want more than necessary circulating in your bloodstream. High levels are associated with numerous long-term diseases.

You're not considered low on ferritin unless you are below 20. Likewise, you will probably not see any effect on your hair at the level you are currently at. You're not low on ferritin. You do not need more iron. And supplementing with it will not likely have any effect on your hair loss.

I know that it's comforting to find a cause that can be attributed to something as simple as a vitamin / mineral deficiency. But hair loss will only be seen in people with dramatic numbers out of range. I personally was at 10. I saw no increase in hair loss, and fixing the number did not reduce my hair loss rate.

With iron you need to be extremely careful because of it's toxic effects on all portions of the body in high doses. If the range is 20 to 100, I would be happy to be around 40. I would prefer it over something like 60. Simply because less is probably better, and your only goal is to make sure you have "enough".
 

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Joan

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My hair loss started four years ago, and I've since been diagnosed with Androgenetic Alopecia. Before knowing this, I had hoped low ferritin was the culprit too, since mine was also out-of-range low. I did manage to raise my level considerably, but my hair has never stopped shedding and thinning. I've taken different forms of iron. Currently, I'm taking 65 mgs. of elemental iron (as carbonyl iron) with Vitamin C daily. I continue to take iron supplements because my iron was also low at the time of my initial blood workup. In addition, I eat a cereal high in iron daily and occasionally one or two tablespoons of blackstrap molasses. I think you're asking about ferrous fumarate, another form of iron. I know some types are easier on the stomach, so you can try different forms if you have any issues.

If your hair loss continues after you've raised your ferritin, I'd suggest getting a scalp biopsy to rule out Androgenetic Alopecia. If you're shedding hairs of varying lengths and diameters that have tapered ends, that would most likely indicate Androgenetic Alopecia. I know women usually get blood workups first (hormones, thyroid, vitamin D, etc.), but I've always gone for worst-case scenario first whenever I thought I had any kind of disorder.

I hope everything works out for you. :)
 

hairblues

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It is confusing.

i saw an endochronologist and was tested for a lot of things hormonally and everything came back normal.

I showed her what i was unhappy with in my part and she suggested a hair transplant..she recommended someone and i had read about him and was happy she knew him.

I went to the hair transplant Dr for a transplant and he looked at all my blood work and saw my ferritin from few years back was 12.

He examined my scalp and said i had good donor hair which was my main concern. But he did not think i should get a transplant because he believe its my low ferritin causing most of the problem if not all of it.

Its very few women I have read about on internet who actually did regrow hair after raising ferritin.

40 does not sound low enough to me for ferritin to cause lose of hair but i am not a DR or researcher. Maybe it depends on weather you are still pre or post menopausal.

I did find one study that seemed reputable that found ferritin of about 70 the women responded better to hair loss treatments than women who had lower ferritin. So maybe their is a connection there.

Im seeing my Dr in a few weeks he told me i can come back to ask questions.

I suggest find an endocrinologist and a good hair loss specialist dermatologist and consult with both.

Don't just take iron and not get blood testing some people absorb iron very fast and some very slow..I am very slow but if you are fast can be dangerous and toxic.
 

Sammz

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My hair loss started four years ago, and I've since been diagnosed with Androgenetic Alopecia. Before knowing this, I had hoped low ferritin was the culprit too, since mine was also out-of-range low. I did manage to raise my level considerably, but my hair has never stopped shedding and thinning. I've taken different forms of iron. Currently, I'm taking 65 mgs. of elemental iron (as carbonyl iron) with Vitamin C daily. I continue to take iron supplements because my iron was also low at the time of my initial blood workup. In addition, I eat a cereal high in iron daily and occasionally one or two tablespoons of blackstrap molasses. I think you're asking about ferrous fumarate, another form of iron. I know some types are easier on the stomach, so you can try different forms if you have any issues.

If your hair loss continues after you've raised your ferritin, I'd suggest getting a scalp biopsy to rule out Androgenetic Alopecia. If you're shedding hairs of varying lengths and diameters that have tapered ends, that would most likely indicate Androgenetic Alopecia. I know women usually get blood workups first (hormones, thyroid, vitamin D, etc.), but I've always gone for worst-case scenario first whenever I thought I had any kind of disorder.

I hope everything works out for you. :)
Thanks Joan, very helpful

Maybe it will make no difference but I aim to get my iron to 60-70 and then review. How long is a good time to wait? 6 months I thought maybe.
Maybe I will go for hormone tests etc after this if I feel I am still where I am now. I am not sure how to know when I get to 60-70ug without going for blood tests every month. Here in the UK, we an get blood tests from our GP for free but I doubt they will be happy to test me every month.

My main concern is hair shedding and hair length. Each year I notice my hair is marginally shorter than the previous year and definitely less hair on my head. I am 41 now but I think my hair loss started in my mid 20's :(

What is Androgenetic Alopecia?
 

Joan

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I went to the hair transplant Dr for a transplant and he looked at all my blood work and saw my ferritin from few years back was 12.

He examined my scalp and said i had good donor hair which was my main concern. But he did not think i should get a transplant because he believe its my low ferritin causing most of the problem if not all of it.
Refresh my memory: Have you gotten a scalp biopsy? Women tend to thin diffusely and thus are generally not good candidates for hair transplants. Even though the back of my hair has remained thicker than the rest, it's still thinner than it was before hair loss. DHT sensitivity tends to affect women's entire scalps. Therefore, how would your hair transplant doctor know which hairs will remain DHT resistant?
 

Joan

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Thanks Joan, very helpful

Maybe it will make no difference but I aim to get my iron to 60-70 and then review. How long is a good time to wait? 6 months I thought maybe.
Maybe I will go for hormone tests etc after this if I feel I am still where I am now. I am not sure how to know when I get to 60-70ug without going for blood tests every month. Here in the UK, we an get blood tests from our GP for free but I doubt they will be happy to test me every month.

My main concern is hair shedding and hair length. Each year I notice my hair is marginally shorter than the previous year and definitely less hair on my head. I am 41 now but I think my hair loss started in my mid 20's :(

What is Androgenetic Alopecia?
I don't remember how long I waited until I had my iron and ferritin retested. I'm sure your doctor can answer that question for you.

Androgenetic Alopecia:

http://www.americanhairloss.org/women_hair_loss/causes_of_hair_loss.asp
 

hairblues

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Refresh my memory: Have you gotten a scalp biopsy? Women tend to thin diffusely and thus are generally not good candidates for hair transplants. Even though the back of my hair has remained thicker than the rest, it's still thinner than it was before hair loss. DHT sensitivity tends to affect women's entire scalps. Therefore, how would your hair transplant doctor know which hairs will remain DHT resistant?

No not yet.

He took microscopic photos of my scalp in back and up front..he said and showed me that i have 3s and 4s on back and 0,1, and 2s on my front.
 

Joan

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No not yet.

He took microscopic photos of my scalp in back and up front..he said and showed me that i have 3s and 4s on back and 0,1, and 2s on my front.
My dermatologist takes pictures of my scalp yearly as well. She's never mentioned numbers, though. What do they signify? She compares them to the previous year's photos.
 

hairblues

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My dermatologist takes pictures of my scalp yearly as well. She's never mentioned numbers, though. What do they signify? She compares them to the previous year's photos.

The numbers is how many hairs are clustered together.
 

hairblues

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scalp-illustration4.png

My dermatologist takes pictures of my scalp yearly as well. She's never mentioned numbers, though. What do they signify? She compares them to the previous year's photos.

Easier to just show an image...
 

hairblues

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What about the ratio of terminal-to-vellus hairs?

Good question.
he never mentioned vellus hair in my donor site--hopefully i don't have any. wouldn't that be fantastic ;)
 

hairblues

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What about the ratio of terminal-to-vellus hairs?

What would a biopsy show a surgeon that densitometry would not show about donor hair?
Below is explanation from a surgeon in regards to densitometry.

Because densitometry is more sensitive than the naked eye in detecting miniaturization and is the only way that hair density can be accurately measured, it should form the basis of the hair loss exam and is a critical tool in determining which persons are candidates for hair transplantation. It is also very useful in planning the surgery since it gives the doctor a great deal of information about the available donor supply and the quality of a person’s follicular unit grafts
 

Joan

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What would a biopsy show a surgeon that densitometry would not show about donor hair?
Below is explanation from a surgeon in regards to densitometry.

Because densitometry is more sensitive than the naked eye in detecting miniaturization and is the only way that hair density can be accurately measured, it should form the basis of the hair loss exam and is a critical tool in determining which persons are candidates for hair transplantation. It is also very useful in planning the surgery since it gives the doctor a great deal of information about the available donor supply and the quality of a person’s follicular unit grafts
In addition to miniaturization (which, as you've stated, densitometry can diagnose), a scalp biopsy would show the anagen-telogen ratio. Since I don't think you've yet found the cause of your hair loss, maybe you're suffering from telogen effluvium. Would the surgeon need to know that before performing an hair transplant? I have no clue about the prerequisites for a female hair transplant, other than needing a stable donor area. I do hope you're one of the few females who are good candidates for an hair transplant if one is needed down the road--which hopefully will not be!:)
 

hairblues

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In addition to miniaturization (which, as you've stated, can diagnose), a scalp biopsy would show the anagen-telogen ratio. Since I don't think you've yet found the cause of your hair loss, maybe you're suffering from telogen effluvium. Would the surgeon need to know that before performing an hair transplant? I have no clue about the prerequisites for a female hair transplant, other than needing a stable donor area. I do hope you're one of the few females who are good candidates for an hair transplant if one is needed down the road--which hopefully will not be!:)

Ah okay.
I did ask my regular dermatologist about scalp biopsy..she said to me they are often wrong and inconclusive...
is that true?
 

Joan

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Ah okay.
I did ask my regular dermatologist about scalp biopsy..she said to me they are often wrong and inconclusive...
is that true?
I've never heard that. I wonder why? I'm four years into this (happy anniversary to me :(), and I can see with my own eyes every single day that my hair is short cycling and miniaturizing. I probably didn't even need the scalp biopsy, since I've been shedding like this since the beginning. The only reason I continue to see my dermatologist (I have two) who read my scalp biopsy is because she's a reputable, compassionate doctor at Yale who only sees patients with referrals. Also, if, by some chance, participants for clinical trials are sought, I want in.

Something else I'm wondering about regarding hair transplants for women: How would a doctor know for certain that in time a woman wouldn't develop Androgenetic Alopecia and thin in the donor area, even though she didn't have Androgenetic Alopecia at the time of the transplant and had a good donor site? For example, I've always had some temple recession (not like now, though), enough that I never wore my hair off my forehead. If I had decided to have an hair transplant, say, way back in my 20s, before Androgenetic Alopecia, when my donor area was nice and thick, my transplanted hairs would now be falling out along with the rest of my hair, since they wouldn't be DHT resistant. It's just something to think about.

I see tons of women of all ages with hair loss. What I notice in older women is that, although they're losing hair diffusely, the hair in their donor areas doesn't thin as much, but it does thin. My husband's donor area is still thicker than the rest of his head, but even his is not as thick as it was before he started balding. At least it doesn't look that way to me.

You may not have to worry about any of this, hairblues. There's still hope for you.
 
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hairblues

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I've never heard that. I wonder why? I'm four years into this (happy anniversary to me :(), and I can see with my own eyes every single day that my hair is short cycling and miniaturizing. I probably didn't even need the scalp biopsy, since I've been shedding like this since the beginning. The only reason I continue to see my dermatologist (I have two) who read my scalp biopsy is because she's a reputable, compassionate doctor at Yale who only sees patients with referrals. Also, if, by some chance, participants for clinical trials are sought, I want in.

Something else I'm wondering about hair transplants for women: How would a doctor know for certain that in time a woman wouldn't develop Androgenetic Alopecia and thin in the donor area, even though she didn't have Androgenetic Alopecia at the time of the transplant and had a good donor site? For example, I've always had some temple recession (not like now, though), enough that I never wore my hair off my forehead. If I had decided to have an hair transplant, say, way back in my 20s, before Androgenetic Alopecia, when my donor area was nice and thick, my transplanted hairs would now be falling out along with the rest of my hair, since they wouldn't be DHT resistant. It's just something to think about.

I see tons of women of all ages with hair loss. What I notice in older women is that, although they're losing hair diffusely, the hair in their donor areas doesn't thin as much, but it does thin. Even my husband's donor area is still thicker than the rest of his head, but it's not as thick as it was before he started balding. At least it doesn't look that way to me.

Im sorry Joan you do sound very defeated by this..I do hope you find some solace and some hope soon. :)
 

hairblues

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Just in case anyone in future reads this

i had a biopsy and it came back as Alopecia Areata
My Deratologist was baffled so she did a second biopsy
Second biopsy came back Androgenic Alopecia early stage (same general area as first biopsy one week apart)
The dermapathologst compared the two slides and concluded he was 'over zealous' with hie first findings of the biopsy.
I felt concerned and went for a second opinion at a Dr in NYC who is a leading expert In Alopecia Areata to make sure.
She examined me and looked over my biopsy reports...she explained to me that biopsies are often inconclusive or wrong findings
She explained why and it was honestly like a pathology lesson that i did not retain.
She explained 'why' the pathologist wrongly diagnosed me at first as AA...
She said I clearly have androgenic alopecia
I asked er about the ferritin--she said it is good to have ferritin up high enough as it can worsen sooner Androgenetic Alopecia.
I asked her about my back hair because she looked at it and she and as well as my other dermatologist and the Hair transplant surgeon have all said I look like my back hair is unaffected by the Androgenetic Alopecia.

Im currently on Topical spironolactone--I may switch in few months to oral.
I plan on starting minoxidil

just wanted to keep this updated in case someone comes in future--that always drove me nuts when i wold research stuff and people would disappear or not finish out threads.

I am planning on seeing an androgenic alopecia specialist who did a lot of the actual studies on ferritin and hair loss...
when an if i get the appointment i will come back and report.
 
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