Discussion in 'New Research, Studies, and Technologies' started by Swoop, Jul 2, 2016.
Hurry up and take my money
Check this out: Dynamic Modelling of Pathways to Cellular Senescence Reveals Strategies for Targeted Interventions
They find that inhibition of both ROS with CAT and SOD2, as well as dual mTOR inhibition with Torin1, outperformed either ROS removal or mTOR inhibition alone. They also find that taking down mTOR too far might not be optimal:
The earlier the better:
Unfortunately though, these cells become virtually unrecoverable after a few weeks even with treatment. Do you know how these results might translate to in vivo numbers?
KGF (FGF7) is already extremely high in Androgenetic Alopecia (6.6 times higher in balding vs. non-balding dermal papilla cells).
The compound definetely seems to have the potential to maintain/halt with Ketaconazole and alfatradiol. Although i am sceptical about Progesterone as it also seems anti-estrogenic.
I'm thinking of making a cream with 2-5 % spironolactone, Ketaconalazole 0,5-2 % and maybe 0,1-1 % Progesterone
And a alcohol based solution with alfatradiol 0,025 %, 2mg finasteride and 2-4 diane pills, 100 ml.
@WangMQ, yeah that's a problem. Thinking of a way to figure that out. Best would be maybe to do it through someone like Kane or Ziom. They could source each ingredient in bigger quantity. Then we can let them homogenize the ingredients and third party test each ingredient to make sure it's legit. I suppose most of these ingredients are extremely cheap and easy to source aside from DGLA and s-equol which might require custom synthesis, but we'll get there. That way you'll have big quantities of each ingredients that are legit. Now members could buy these ingredients maybe as a "package" for cheap and easily make the solution at home. Every concentration will be open source though so if people want to source it somewhere else or something, they are free to do so obviously.
@Seuxin, yes adenosine and minoxidil would be good.. The thing is you can always add that yourself or use that yourself in combination with this. We can't start with too many ingredients and need to make a choice.We need to start with a basis or it will become too difficult. Like I said all ingredients need to dissolve in a vehicle to make it work. Stability is also an issue if you add much ingredients. I don't even know with certainty if this will fit into one topical. Growth factors are also very high in molecular weight and don't penetrate the skin well and degrade in solution.
@InBeforeTheCure, very interesting. Funny how we unravel more and more and have so much more to learn, I have no clue how this would translate into vivo. However I do seem to think that damage control is very important to shield these cells as much as possible. Reversibility seems to be a hard thing in Androgenetic Alopecia. That's why I aim on damage control with this topical. I have added Tempol as a ROS scavenger into this topical;
Plus check this study http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22172488. There are many more.
Tempol is rapidly degraded in vivo though. Perhaps application of 2 times per day or more would be better... What do you think of this ingredient? Do you have any idea of other compounds that could combat ROS too efficiently? I was looking at orgotein (SOD) but it's high in MW and poses a problem with delivery. Perhaps we should include a weak mTOR inhibitor too? If so what compound?
Anyway seems to be enough interest. Let's do this then !
for the little I know, progesterone is the key active ingredient in the compound; 17-alpha-e is the second, then the rest.
Doesnt make S-Eqol makes your scalp "yellow" . I am curious why you use spironolactone? RU is much better ? Respect that you do this!! Goed bezig !
I do not know if you know this forum topic ? But here they also discuss various products / materials to make a topical of .
Anti 5-AR and anti-estrogenic.
I still think the ratio of DHT:Estrogen would become more favorable as a result of progesterone, despite it antagonizing estrogen.
In other words the DHT reduction wins out over the reduction in estrogen.
I would certainly be interested in some alfatradiol and proper s-equol if you need to do a GB.
@ryan82, not that I know of about s-equol making your scalp yellow .
I have roughly calculated. I still need to know the price of DGLA (might require custom synthesis) & Tempol (Tempol is probably extremely cheap). But we are looking at a topical that will be very cheap almost certainly less than $20 a month, that is including every ingredient. Very rough calculation as it depends on concentration of the stuff and frequency of application of the topical and the price of DGLA is still a question mark. spironolactone will be excluded though, that stuff is prescription. Plus it smells like skunk apparently .
You'll still have alfatradiol/s-equol then working on the androgen/ER angle. We'll start with a basis and go from there I guess. Make this a community effort, we can always build from the basis.
Wesley heeft het ooit geprobeerd. Is er mee gekapt omdat het helemaal geel uitslaat... Misschien is er een truucje om dat gele eruit Telogen Effluvium krijgen?
Hmm, ja dat moeten we dan even uitvogelen als dat inderdaad zo is. Hoewel; Appearance: White to Off-White Solid. Btw praat even Engels als je kan, je engels is prima.
They say white to off-white appearance of s-eqoul. Might be a bit beige though. But we'll figure that out.
I'm seeing a color between off white/ and maybe beige,
concentrating harder on it I'm now thinking it might be buff?
I think you would want to add catalase to take care of the hydrogen peroxide produced by SOD/SOD mimetic. Don't know about the degradation problem. You would probably want round-the-clock inhibition, right?
Ideally, you would want a dual mTOR inhibitor. However, these are research chemicals and hard to source, but if you really want it you can get it I suppose. I don't know what kind of concentration you would want to use -- something like AZD8055 has an IC50 of 0.8 nM but a half-life of only 2-3 hours, but I'm not sure how that would translate in practice. It's a double-edged sword with inhibiting mTOR too, since you might end up interfering with stem cell differentiation (rapamycin is known to cause hair loss). Maybe there's some optimal middle ground though, who knows.
Are you sure ? KGF is in the HSC (Histogen) vial !
@Swoop I want in!
in t'degang bestag goed t'koop
(Making up Dutch to be "extra-in"!)
This is from microarray data (Chew et. al) of dermal papilla cells taken from balding and non-balding scalp. The three on the left (BAB) are balding DPCs, the three on the right (BAN) are non-balding.
DHT has also been shown to induce FGF7 expression in DPCs. (Kwack et. al, Supplementary Material)
Maybe Histogen could save a few bucks by leaving the FGF7 out lol.
I think this is a great idea. What do we have to do to get started? I'm willing to assist if possible.