Making A Custom Topical Hair Loss Treatment | HairLossTalk Forums

Making A Custom Topical Hair Loss Treatment

Discussion in 'New Research, Studies, and Technologies' started by Swoop, Jul 2, 2016.

  1. Swoop

    Swoop Senior Member My Regimen

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    I'm going to make a topical for myself. Going off my regimen soon (using completely nothing) and just going to do a little experiment. I have quite aggressive Androgenetic Alopecia.

    I'm not going to be making any guarantees about this topical. I'm not touting it as being a "cure" (we've heard that one to many times). Neither do I give a guarantee that it will even maintain your hair. However it should slow down the progression of Androgenetic Alopecia. To make a random example it might work like this across individuals;

    goal.jpg

    Perhaps in some it will have a cosmetic effect. However it will be primarily a topical based on "damage control" in Androgenetic Alopecia. People who can't use treatments like finasteride/dutasteride or experimental treatments like RU58841 are quickly doomed as they have no options to slow down the progression of Androgenetic Alopecia.

    So why not combine a few treatments that work through damage control? It would be nice if some people can replicate me in their own research so we'll have more feedback. I'm thinking of the following ingredients

    - S-equol

    S-equol is a non-steroidal selective agonist of the estrogen receptor beta (ER-β). When taken systemically it able to reduce DHT levels by ~20% and it is hypothesized s-equol is able to bind to DHT directly (1).

    The benefits in relation to Androgenetic Alopecia would be primarily through s-equol being a selective agonist of the estrogen receptor beta. Observations tell us that estrogen seems to be protective of hair follicles. The anti-androgen activity that might occur through topical application is a plus.


    - Alfatradiol (optional)

    Is a (weak) 5a-reductase inhibitor. Has some weak biological activity towards estrogen receptor alpha (ER-α). There are several studies about this being beneficial for men & women albeit with weak evidence and it is actually sold as a treatment for Androgenetic Alopecia in germany.

    - Anti-oxidant, tempol or orgotein

    Oxidative stress seems to be a critical component of Androgenetic Alopecia progression. Multiple studies are indicating this. Therefore it might be handy to have a pure anti-oxidant. Tempol is a SOD mimetic and can be beneficial in controlling the oxidative stress. You can see for instance in this study that SOD2 (major intracellular anti-oxidant enzyme) is being downregulated progressively in prostate cancer and this contribute to AR overexpression. Tempol was able to lower cellular superoxide levels and inhibit AR in that study.

    @InBeforeTheCure has shown us recently the following;

    Now that prostate cancer study doesn't necessarily mean anything at all regarding AR, I just used it as an example. However controlling the oxidative stress would probably be a good move in which Tempol can help. There was a clinical trial that used a 7% tempol gel to prevent hair loss from radiotherapy (2).


    - DGLA (Dihomo-γ-linolenic acid)

    See Brotzu. Effect would be hair follicle cycle modulation.

    - Carnitine

    See Brotzu. He says it would facilitate metabolism of lipid chains through beta-oxidation. Why not dump it in there also. So it would act through damage control. It exhibits overall also anti-oxidant properties, but probably nowhere as potent as tempol.


    So all in all a topical might consist of the following components

    - S-equol
    - Alfatradiol
    - Tempol
    - DGLA
    - Carnitine

    Basically it's like Brotzu his lotion but with spironolactone added and a potent SOD mimetic (tempol). Should be even better. This won't be incorporated into liposomes, but liposomes are doubtful too if you look at some studies that mention that they break down in contact with the skin; http://sciencenordic.com/liposomes-skin-creams-don’t-work.

    The power of these ingredients would be primarily through a multi-angle approach to work through damage control.

    Problems with this topical would be sourcing as you would have to source multiple ingredients. We could work that out though.

    However a bigger problem would be the stability and the solubility of all these ingredients in one topical. But it's workable. In worst case it would have to be spread across two topicals and maybe mixed freshly. Stability would need to be tested for several months. Mixing freshly would be probably the best thing initially.

    It would be nice to get feedback. It might become a total failure, well that's fine, but perhaps it will make some people happy. I'll source the ingredients and we'll follow out a way to get this stuff suspended. Do some people want to get on this? You would get the raw ingredients supplied. And you could mix it yourself. Safety, side-effects is completely up to you, your risk.

    Does anyone else feel something for this?
     
    #1 Swoop, Jul 2, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2016
  2. hwezdarik

    hwezdarik Established Member

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  3. kuba197

    kuba197 Established Member My Regimen

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    Wow, nice post!
    Several weeks ago I contacted in polish hair loss forum with Ziom (he has huge knowledge), about Brotzu's lotion. Especially about liposomal delivery. He said that it is hard to make and point out that Brotzu create ETHOSOMES (so maybe thats why it is effective). However he still thinks that lotion will be stable only for several days. Interesting thing is Brotzu in every interview emphasized the importance of this delivery (without this, the S-equol does not penetrate the skin).
    And why not try to contact with professional lab to make it? Like that guy from Italy.

    I hope that this deliver me to Replicel (please work xd) or more likely to affordable CB....



    Ps. Fu*k finasteride.
     
  4. Swoop

    Swoop Senior Member My Regimen

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    @hwezdarik,

    Thanks. Yeah I'll test s-equol anyway, from whoever I'll source. Need to find out some things about that compound. I'm not going to toss setipiprant into this, although I understand that adding this would be beneficial. I'm not going to formulate this for anyone btw., just for myself. I'll be just getting these ingredients. If some could test it with me that would be great though.

    Yeah I know that guy. I'm aware of basic studies relating drug delivery/skin penetration. I don't understand why Brotzu would argue that s-equol won't penetrate the skin though in a regular vehicle. I think it will penetrate as there are no reasons to believe otherwise. It's low in molecular weight too. What evidence does he have for this? In any case you could always dermaroll the skin prior to application with a 0.5mm needle to disrupt the stratum corneum to enhance penetration.

    Would be nice if we can make this a project similar to Follicept, but one that has better prospects. I'll source these ingredients this month.
     
    #4 Swoop, Jul 2, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2016
  5. kuba197

    kuba197 Established Member My Regimen

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    When I read Brotzu's statements that this magic lotion brings back 5 years of hair loss, regrowth hair in Areata suffers (did you see that little girl? it is miracle. What about JAKs?), works MUCH better than minoxidil and substitute current treatments I think that this must be a scam. But our italian grandpa is reputable Doctor, spent his retirement on hair loss trials, risked his name, explained why it is better than minoxidil (he is vascluar surgeon) and gave a photo. However I still thinks it would be too good to be true :confused:

    Ps2. In Takashi we trust!! (do you like FightClub? ;) )
     
  6. Swoop

    Swoop Senior Member My Regimen

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    Yeah well you know when someone says against me that something can bring back 5 years of hair loss then I would ask him how he measured that. Did he follow the hair loss pattern from subjects for 5 or more years straight? How else could you say such a thing? Overall my opinion of Androgenetic Alopecia is that regrowth is extremely difficult. It's somewhat achievable for some people but for that you'll have to continuously throw very potent stuff at your scalp or use stuff orally that will castrate you/feminize or will have other side effects.It's just not a viable strategy for most people. If Brotzu will be right then huge props to him, I'm extremely skeptical without evidence, we'll see.

    This topical I'm proposing though albeit having components of his topical too is directed towards damage control primarily (decreasing oxidative stress, hitting on androgen angle, hitting on estrogen receptor, modulation of hair follicle cycling). It won't be a big thing, but still might be beneficial to some. Especially to those that can't use "tier 1" treatments like finasteride etc. Damage control is important now. It would be a pity if we get other maintenance treatments in a few year and you are stuck with hair follicles that are arrested. There are some other ingredients I might add, but this is a good superficial start to build from.

    And yes I like fightclub and let Dr. Tsuji be our hair god in the future ;).
     
    #6 Swoop, Jul 2, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2016
    The 7TH Sense and hairblues like this.
  7. Dench57

    Dench57 Senior Member My Regimen

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    I like this idea. Curious as to why you've chosen spironolactone over low-dose RU? Or are you getting spironolactone in pure powder form rather than the hassle of crushing pills/separating filler?
     
  8. Kevand

    Kevand Established Member

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    This is perfect! I was just planning to make a thread about same topic.
    My plan is to make a topical which focus on at first a side effect free treatment and efficacy coming later.
    This are some of the different angles thats been researched in the mechanism and potential treamentways in MBP
    Anti-inflammation
    Nourishment
    Antioxidants
    Growth factors/anti-apoptotic factors/stem cells
    We could invest our time and money making a topical that attacks from all this angles. That would make it harder though to evaluate the different components. Also a lot of the research studying this angles has contradicting results and often limited evidence especially clinical evidence making it even harder to draw conclusions of what does what.
    I think the best investment would be try making a topical treating androgenetic factors. This area has been well documented and we know that anti-androgen works.
     
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  9. kuba197

    kuba197 Established Member My Regimen

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  10. Kevand

    Kevand Established Member

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    I have used alfatradiol 0,025 % for three weeks now and been applying about 1-2 ml 2x days just too see if there is any side. I had ball ache two weeks in to the treatment for 1-2 days which I dont think has anything to do with the treatment. It could be that i am more self-aware or that I started with no fap at the same time. My semen was a little watery after not fapping for three weeks I will evaluate the coming days.
    Otherwise everything is same. Also i am fasting so this time might be the best to evaluate the product.
    The product Ell-cranell has been in the market for very long time and been widely used in for example germam. It is sold OTC and clinical and most/(all?) anedoctal documentation has not suggesting any type of side effect except some local irritation of the scalp due to the solution.
     
  11. hilbert

    hilbert Established Member

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  12. Kevand

    Kevand Established Member

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    Now to the interesting part. I have been applying to only my frontal 2x a day with a fairly big amount 1-2 ml. It is suggested to use 3ml over the whole scalp region 1x days.
    It seems as my sheeding completely has stopped. My scalp feels nice. Not seeing any regrowth.
     
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  13. constrictedvoid

    constrictedvoid Established Member

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    What makes you convinced it will be less effective than finasteride? Basing this on observations people have had with RU and CB relative to finasteride? Or are you not convinced either way, but are just aiming for(as in, being satisfied with) lesser results?
     
  14. Kevand

    Kevand Established Member

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    I think the topical solution needs to show some regrowth in order to validate it as an effective treatment although the goal with the topical is slow down/maintenance
     
  15. hilbert

    hilbert Established Member

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    surely not the 17-alpha-estradiol at that %.
    watery semen after nofapping for a long time depends on the lubricant liquid. the longer the sex, the more watery the semen.
     
  16. constrictedvoid

    constrictedvoid Established Member

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    My comment was directed at Swoop mostly.
     
  17. whatevr

    whatevr Senior Member My Regimen

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  18. Kevand

    Kevand Established Member

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    I understood that my comment was also directed at Swoop mostly.
    I think he agrees with that an initial regrowth is needed to validate the topical judging from his graph, although its soon becomes quite pessimistic falling down below baseline :p
     
  19. constrictedvoid

    constrictedvoid Established Member

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    Indeed. In some respects I am still somewhat peatarded, I use high doses of gelatin, about 2/3 of total protein(which causes some fairly pronounced shifts in my general physiology, it amped my temps up to 37.7C at times). I limit fluids, avoid all ejaculation and use a lot of calcium and K2, also use very high doses of red light(supra-solar levels) and I pound carbs and total calories(though mostly starch now). Those are some of the main peaty things(except the ejac avoidance, I guess) I still do. It controls the amount of hairs I lose in a day a lot, but I have no idea to what extent that correlates with hair cycles/miniaturization. Def helps with systemic function/general vitality, though, in combination with good sleep and exercise habits. I'm not 100% sure I have Androgenetic Alopecia, but I think so, I'm a NW2, with a kinda thin-ish hairline, seeing a derm soon.
     
  20. constrictedvoid

    constrictedvoid Established Member

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    What was your username there?
     

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