Lots Of New Info On Follica's Website

[hellouser]

PrettyFly had pretty nice results with dermarolling + minoxidil.

Pretty nice result is an understatement....

 

[Tracksterderm]

We should get someone on the inside :

http://puretechhealth.com/careers.php

They are searching for a VP of Clinical development and a VP of product development.

 

[KO1]

What's stopping me from then just dermarolling, applying minoxidil, and then saying I'm using follica's technology? What's novel about their approach?

Dermarolling isn't the same thing as dermabrasion. Dermabrasion involves removing the epidermis and disrupting the dermis. This is something done in a doctor's office under anesthesia. This is different from dermabrasion which is lots of tiny holes.

The idea is to create a wound with a decent surface area that doesn't close in on itself and instead creates a new layer of skin (and hopefully hair), dermarolling induced wounds aren't like that.

 

[KO1]

The key to understanding the process is these principles:

Follica isn't simply trying to regrow hair, it is trying to create follicles de novo. So while the Indian DR study is interesting and hints that Follica *could* work, it's not apples and apples. Likewise, I think it's somewhat inappropriate for Follica to cite that study as evidence.

Idea is:
1) Create a large surface area wound by removing epidermis and disrupting the dermis. This can be done by dermabrasion, or perhaps chemical peels.
2) In normal skin, a new epidermis will be formed as the skin re-epithelializes
3) Follica wants to push chemicals into the skin that will convince the stem cells to produce hair instead of skin. Some of these chemicals may be PGE2 agonists/PGD2 antagonists, Wnt agonists, antiandrogens etc.

My hypothesis is that Cotsarelis started thinking about the PGD2 pathway as an inhibitor of the wound induced de novo regeneration process.

 

[KO1]

Follica is adamant that they have created follicles de novo in adult hair. (Btw this was thought impossible until the 2007 paper). Chances are those are primitive hair follicles and not quite aesthetically sufficient.

 

[stump]

The key to understanding the process is these principles:

Follica isn't simply trying to regrow hair, it is trying to create follicles de novo. So while the Indian DR study is interesting and hints that Follica *could* work, it's not apples and apples. Likewise, I think it's somewhat inappropriate for Follica to cite that study as evidence.

Idea is:
1) Create a large surface area wound by removing epidermis and disrupting the dermis. This can be done by dermabrasion, or perhaps chemical peels.
2) In normal skin, a new epidermis will be formed as the skin re-epithelializes
3) Follica wants to push chemicals into the skin that will convince the stem cells to produce hair instead of skin. Some of these chemicals may be PGE2 agonists/PGD2 antagonists, Wnt agonists, antiandrogens etc.

My hypothesis is that Cotsarelis started thinking about the PGD2 pathway as an inhibitor of the wound induced de novo regeneration process.

Now this sounds really interesting. Thank you for responding to my question! Hopefully these new hairs will be aesthetically significant and can achieve a similar natural density.

 

[KO1]

Holy sh*t I didn't realize the updated the site. Reading to do now.

 

[KO1]

Jesus Christ. Smartphone app? Da fuq?

 

[Mach]

Old news but. sh*t... you think a hair transplant was difficult to hide.

10.1 DERMABRASION

The procedure begins with shaving/clipping of the existing hair in the area to be treated followed by a thorough cleaning with antiseptic cleansing agent. Numbing agents, such as lidocaine HCL 2% and Epinephrine 1 : 100,000, are injected to anesthetize the surface to be treated. Standard dermabrasion is performed to a depth of approximately 100 μΜ, which includes removal the entire epidermis and disruption of the papillary dermis

(detectable by a shiny, whitish appearance) inducing the formation of small pinpoints of blood in the treated area. Each dermabraded area is approximately a 1.5 cm x 1.5 cm square. Suitable dermabrasion devices are the ASEPTICO ECONO-DERMABRADER from

Tiemann and Company, the DX system from Advanced Microderm (see, e.g. ,

http://www.advancedmicroderm.com/products/tech_specs.html), or the M2-T system from Genesis Biosystems. Alternatively, sterilized sandpaper may be used for dermabrasion. Adhesive ocular shields are worn by the patient during the procedure to avoid complications due to aluminum crystals entering the eye (chemosis, photofobia, punctuate keratitis) and the doctor should wear safety goggles. The dermabrasion tool is carefully maneuvered over the area to carefully remove layers of skin until the desired level is reached. The procedure usually takes only a few minutes.

[00457] Pre-dermabrasion, patients should be asked to: not wear contact lenses during the procedure, discontinue use of over the counter exfoliation products such as Retinol, Glycolic or other hydroxy acids, Salicylic acid, Beta hydroxyl acids 3 days prior to treatment, discontinue use of retinoids 30 days prior to treatment, not receive Botox or collagen injections for 2 weeks prior to treatment.

[00458] Following the procedure the treated skin will be red, swollen and tender, and the wound should be cared for as follows until new skin starts to grow; this usually takes 7-10 days: 1) Keep the area clean and dry for today. The area should either be covered with Vaseline and bandaged after or covered with duoderm or a similar covering. Alternatively, it may be preferable to not cover, bandage, or otherwise manipulate the treated area; 2) Avoid touching the area when washing hair; 3) Pat the area dry. Do not cover, bandage, or otherwise manipulate the treated area.

 

[hellouser]

Old news but. sh*t... you think a hair transplant was difficult to hide.

10.1 DERMABRASION

The procedure begins with shaving/clipping of the existing hair in the area to be treated followed by a thorough cleaning with antiseptic cleansing agent. Numbing agents, such as lidocaine HCL 2% and Epinephrine 1 : 100,000, are injected to anesthetize the surface to be treated. Standard dermabrasion is performed to a depth of approximately 100 μΜ, which includes removal the entire epidermis and disruption of the papillary dermis

(detectable by a shiny, whitish appearance) inducing the formation of small pinpoints of blood in the treated area. Each dermabraded area is approximately a 1.5 cm x 1.5 cm square. Suitable dermabrasion devices are the ASEPTICO ECONO-DERMABRADER from

Tiemann and Company, the DX system from Advanced Microderm (see, e.g. ,

http://www.advancedmicroderm.com/products/tech_specs.html), or the M2-T system from Genesis Biosystems. Alternatively, sterilized sandpaper may be used for dermabrasion. Adhesive ocular shields are worn by the patient during the procedure to avoid complications due to aluminum crystals entering the eye (chemosis, photofobia, punctuate keratitis) and the doctor should wear safety goggles. The dermabrasion tool is carefully maneuvered over the area to carefully remove layers of skin until the desired level is reached. The procedure usually takes only a few minutes.

[00457] Pre-dermabrasion, patients should be asked to: not wear contact lenses during the procedure, discontinue use of over the counter exfoliation products such as Retinol, Glycolic or other hydroxy acids, Salicylic acid, Beta hydroxyl acids 3 days prior to treatment, discontinue use of retinoids 30 days prior to treatment, not receive Botox or collagen injections for 2 weeks prior to treatment.

[00458] Following the procedure the treated skin will be red, swollen and tender, and the wound should be cared for as follows until new skin starts to grow; this usually takes 7-10 days: 1) Keep the area clean and dry for today. The area should either be covered with Vaseline and bandaged after or covered with duoderm or a similar covering. Alternatively, it may be preferable to not cover, bandage, or otherwise manipulate the treated area; 2) Avoid touching the area when washing hair; 3) Pat the area dry. Do not cover, bandage, or otherwise manipulate the treated area.

Well.... at least we'll all know what we'll look like completely shaven. That's actually on my bucket list anyway, so why not do it in order to get some hair?

 

[Mach]

Well.... at least we'll all know what we'll look like completely shaven. That's actually on my bucket list anyway, so why not do it in order to get some hair?

You seeing results with lithium chloride?

 

[Mach]

Wonder if they are going with a EGFR inhibitor?
Sorry for cluttering up the thread. It's a slow night.

 

[coolio]

I have also been paying some attention to Follica for years. I am absolutely certain of a few things.


-- Follica did learn to create all-new follicles with their science, years ago.


-- They were cosmetically useless. Vellus, if even that. Follica used the term "proto-follicle structures" sometimes.


-- The androgen-resistance of the new follicles was not known at that time.


-- Any kind of scalp needling/wound + Minoxidil . . will not very powerful in the big picture. Its not a functional cure. If it was, then we would have discovered it years ago. The same can probably be said about any other substances that existed in pre-industrial times. People have been getting scalp wounds for thousands of years.


-- If Follica ever did succeed at what they have been working on, there would be no middle ground. No "it can kinda sorta help low Norwoods". It would be a full-blown cure in the practical sense, or pretty close. Dense terminal hairs. The patient's existing degree of hair loss would not have stood in the way of it working.

If you can grow new blades of grass and the process works on a large scale, then you can cover any backyard. Not just small yards. Not just yards that are only half-dead.


-- People forget that balding follicles were hit with a firehose of androgen stimulation during puberty. Any new follicles generated by science in adults would never see that. IMO that should help them last a while regardless of their genetic sensitivity.

.

 

[KO1]

While I agree with what you stated, I think there is a middle ground. What if this process only grows a few stray terminal hairs? In other words, it would work in theory, but not be particularly cosmetic.

The problem is that they're limited to using already FDA approved compounds, which makes the selection pretty limited. (Samumed's more potent Wnt agonist might have potential, but that's aside for now).

I'm a little surprised they have a to-market strategy. Their Phase 2 trial was admitted to be a failure with Lithium Gluconate being ineffective. If minoxidil is the topical, I'm really skeptical here. (It could be PGE2 aka dinoprostone)

 

[That Guy]

We know that Histogen's product is capable of turning vellus hair into large, terminal hair. So even if Follica produces mostly vellus hair or otherwise "meh" hair, combination therapy could still be an option.

 

[Jeca Tatu]

Alternatively, sterilized sandpaper may be used for dermabrasion.

Countdown to the bloody-DIY-dudes to appear in 10, 9, 8 ,7....

 

[thomps1523]

Pretty nice result is an understatement....

He also began minoxidil when he started derma rolling and says he doesn't know if most of his results could be on account of minoxidil use alone...

 

[coolio]

I don't have a lot of faith in one HM company's mediocre treatment turning another HM company's mediocre follicles into the real thing.

As for Follica producing stray follicles, IIRC their past experimentation produced consistently dense coverage despite the weak follicles.

I do think their science is pretty all-or-nothing. But if the company is not behaving like they have achieved "all" then it's more likely they are still at the "nothing" stage.

 

[That Guy]

I don't have a lot of faith in one HM company's mediocre treatment turning another HM company's mediocre follicles into the real thing.

As for Follica producing stray follicles, IIRC their past experimentation produced consistently dense coverage despite the weak follicles.

I do think their science is pretty all-or-nothing. But if the company is not behaving like they have achieved "all" then it's more likely they are still at the "nothing" stage.

I'd hardly call Histogen "mediocre".

Besides, combination therapy will be a necessity whether people like it or not; it is even now. Even if you wind up getting Tsuji'd in the future, you still will inevitably need to use something else to stop your hairloss further unless you're NW7 and even then we can't be sure.

 

[Johannes Johnson]

I have some hope for this. I've seen some people go from NW5 to NW2.

Does anyone know when trials start considering they just released this updated site? Maybe early 2017? Can we get the admin to get us an interviewer and participate in the trial?

Maybe I'm asking for too much but I'm desperate