Looking for all natural treatments.

[IBM]

why not eat foods rich of phytoestrogens like carrots, garbanzo beans, soy or flax seed?

 

[noomi]

Well, guys I've changed my diet dramatically as well. I know that a good diet will not grow back all my hair, but it definitely helps somewhat ( if only a little it ). Taking vitamins/supplements probably wont grow back my hair as well, but again every bit helps. I might be wrong, but I like to think that I have greater chances taking vitamins + big3, rather than just doing the big3.

Anyways, I want to give the diet/vitamins a try for a few weeks. I will update you guys on the forums whether I have seen any improvements or not. If there is none, then I will most likely try propecia and rogaine foam.

Does anyone have a good online source of where to purchase propecia? How much should I take? When should I take it? How long should I use it for?

 

[bubka]

not trying to be an *** but can you ever read the faq or at least do a search

 

[Follically Challenged]

nooni if you look around hard enough you'll find there is a lot of science behind all-natural treatments.

bubka for whatever reasons wants to dis all natural treatments but he said he is a waiter, so really, what does he know? about as much as me, which is squat.

check out loquat leaf or banaba leaf for corosolic acid
green tea extract
caffeine
borage oil
stinging nettle
africana pyeum
saw palemetto
coal tar
rosehip oil
liquorice extract (looks like a very good one)
peppermint
apple polyphenols (procyanidin b-2, b-1, c-3)

and the list goes on

read the posts by michael berry, jacob, jakeb, docj077, collegechemistrystudent, bcapop, and i think harie (sp?) has said a few good things along the way although i forget what...he does do skin needling i believe

i'd also incorporate topical ghk copper peptides, superoxide dismutase, keratinocyte growth factor, and retin-A. http://www.skinactives.com is a good place to get some of these, or for GHK CPs u can look into Tricomin spray

also you can eat soy because your body might (35% of ppl can) convert the soy isoflavones into equol. also flax lignans might help. and broccoli for I3C or just take DIM supplements. (supposedly increases "good estrogen" but reduces "bad estrogen")

me, one day, i will try an all-natural regimen. i have used both finasteride and avodart and i can tell you that they do work. but finasteride made my balls hurt, and both make my ejaculate runny. which scares me in terms of birth defects because it is doing something down there which just isn't right.

 

[ripple-effect]

These natural plant extracts combat male pattern baldness – and without side-effects
High levels of DHT are also associated with enlargement of the prostate gland (benign prostate hyperplasia, BPH), so it’s not surprising that natural treatments for BPH are also showing promise for treating male pattern baldness. In a controlled study, 19 men aged 23 to 64 with mild to moderate hair loss took either a placebo or a supplement containing 400 mg of a standardised extract of the herb saw palmetto (Serenoa repens) and 100 mg of the plant sterol beta-sitosterol. Both have been shown to effectively reduce levels of DHT.

After five months, hair growth had significantly improved in an impressive 60 per cent of men taking the supplement, but only in 11 per cent of those given the placebo (J Alt Complement Med 2002; 8: 143-152). What’s more, both saw palmetto and beta-sitosterol are very safe and virtually free from side-effects (the only one being occasional mild stomach upset).

Although the findings of this small study can not be taken as conclusive, they are sufficiently encouraging to suggest that saw palmetto and beta-sitosterol should be the first option for men with mild to moderate hair loss who do not want to risk the problems associated with conventional drugs. Take 200 mg of saw palmetto extract and 100 mg of beta-sitosterol, twice a day.

Another herb with a long-standing reputation for improving hair growth and quality – and which is also used to treat BPH – is nettle (Urtica dioica). Studies carried out in Germany have shown that nettle root extract not only interferes with the conversion of testosterone to DHT but also blocks the process by which DHT is transported to the hair follicles (Fortschr Med 1995; 113: 37-40).

DHT hitches a ride on a protein called sex hormone binding globulin (SHBG) by ‘plugging into’ receptor sites on its surface. Nettle contains compounds called lignans, which can also slot into the SHBG receptors, so that they are unavailable to DHT. Take 400 to 600 mg of standardised nettle root extract a day.
http://www.thehealthierlife.co.uk/artic ... -loss.html


Natural treatments do work well for some people but not everyone. The reason is unknown.
http://www.hairlosstalk.com/newsletter/article236.htm

Zack, how many mgs of Beta do you take and where do you buy from?

 

[bubka]

why does something that is "natural" not cause a side effect, i would LOVE to know ?????????

YOU guys must think that somebody created all these plants and their purpose is to be on this earth for man to use to combat their baldness which is "natural" too, have you guys EVER taken a science or chemistry class in your lives?

we have a guy here post saw palmetto, which has been proven to do jack crap since 1995

coal tar is a carcinogen

 

[ripple-effect]

why does something that is "natural" not cause a side effect, i would LOVE to know ?????????

YOU guys must think that somebody created all these plants and their purpose is to be on this earth for man to use to combat their baldness which is "natural" too, have you guys EVER taken a science or chemistry class in your lives?

we have a guy here post saw palmetto, which has been proven to do jack crap since 1995

coal tar is a carcinogen

You know what? I'm not even going to waste my time....someone else do it for me.

 

[Follically Challenged]

why does something that is "natural" not cause a side effect, i would LOVE to know ?????????

YOU guys must think that somebody created all these plants and their purpose is to be on this earth for man to use to combat their baldness which is "natural" too, have you guys EVER taken a science or chemistry class in your lives?

we have a guy here post saw palmetto, which has been proven to do jack crap since 1995

coal tar is a carcinogen

You know what? I'm not even going to waste my time....someone else do it for me.

See, I'm not a scientist....so I threw out the saw palmetto thing. I wouldn't use it, but I'm not going to deny this noobie the info...I'll let him decide.

Yeah, coal tar is a carcinogen...so what? Cancer doesn't scare me....giving my babies birth defects or genetic defects does. And, as I've postulated, since finasteride and dutasteride affects the testicles through testicular aching, and a runniness in the ejaculate, I would think it has a greater chance of giving my child genetic defects than something that doesn't produce this effect.

Why are you so angry anyways?

Edit: You were replying to bubka! I'm sorry. He makes me angry too, so I've had him on ignore since that feature was provided. All he says is "The Big 3" over and over, and says anything else is just a scam. Well, perhaps he is ignorant of the Japanese studies conducted which can be found on other websites. Also, ket makes one's hair look like sh*t, minoxidil made my face fat, and propecia made my balls hurt. So, taking those things into consideration, I'd like to think this site is about trying to find another way. And if we fail, at least we tried to find a better (in our opinion) way. Different strokes for different folks, I say. Nice info on the saw palmetto, by the way! I would just use the beta-sitosterol I think though.

 

[bubka]

hah, you guys should just site around and pray on each others heads with pat roberstons, i am surprised that is not part of your "natural" regime

 

[ripple-effect]

Here are your pictures bubka: Someone having success with Beta Sitosterol: http://hairregrowth.blogspot.com/ - Being as stubborn as you are, I'm sure you still won't believe it.

 

[bubka]

lol, can you show me one picture, just one, where the camera angle is the same, and the lighting is the same, and he is not doing a comb down to show the same hairline... and even at that, i don't think anyone would say, "hey, your hair looks better" i would be EMBARRASSED to show this as "evidence" of my regime, this is an absolute joke

every time somebody ask about "natural" results, they pull out this jokester' website

 

[ripple-effect]

Like I said, I knew you still wouldn't believe it. You were crying for pics and so you got them, but you still aren't happy. You probably never will be. Maybe b/c you've tried the natural approach before, but failed and so now you have a vendetta against people with natural regimens. Now concerning the guy who had success with beta sitosterol....that's significant improvement considering thats all he basically used and BS is a natural supplement. People using finasteride would have results similar to that if finasteride works for them. Can't wait to see bubka's pics since he's obsessed with them.

 

[bubka]

how does your body know what is made by a plant, and what is made by a chemist? DEFINE "nature" please???

and lets look at your pics... these have been destroyed so many times over, once more for a good laugh:

what is this guy a gremlin? bright light, no bright light and different angle...

comb up, comb down

comb up, comb down

blurry for the sake of regrowth only

you think with all the money he is saving on these "natural" regime, he could buy a descent camera...

and why no updates?

 

[Follically Challenged]

Like I said, I knew you still wouldn't believe it. You were crying for pics and so you got them, but you still aren't happy. You probably never will be. Maybe b/c you've tried the natural approach before, but failed and so now you have a vendetta against people with natural regimens. Now concerning the guy who had success with beta sitosterol....that's significant improvement considering thats all he basically used and BS is a natural supplement. People using finasteride would have results similar to that if finasteride works for them. Can't wait to see bubka's pics since he's obsessed with them.

I'm thinking beta-sitosterol may work as an estrogen agonist...Just a thought.

 

[Guest]

I'm thinking beta-sitosterol may work as an estrogen agonist...Just a thought.

It's funny you mention that, because I was just researching nettle root extract, and it's reputed ability to reverse hair loss, and I came across this quote:

German researchers have identified a constituent of nettle root known as (-)-3,4-divanillyltetrahydrofuran that has a high binding affinity to SHBG (sex-hormone-binding-globulin). They described it as "remarkable." These researchers suggest that the beneficial effects of plant lignans (such as found in flaxseed oil) on hormone-dependent cancers may be linked to their binding affinity to SHBG. The most potent known lignans in this respect are constituents of nettle root. In addition to inhibiting SHBG binding, at least six constituents of nettle root inhibit aromatase, reducing conversion of androgens to estrogens.

From here:

http://www.jonbarron.org/newsletters/06/5-8-2006.php

And then this:

Because it contains 3,4-divanillyltetrahydrofuran, certain extracts of the nettle are used by bodybuilders in an effort to increase free testosterone by occupying sex-hormone binding globulin.

From here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nettle

I'm beginning to think that male pattern baldness (and possibly the production of DHT) is related to estrogen somehow.

I remember reading something a few years back about how estrogenic chemicals in plastics used to store water and food were creating hormonal imbalances in a large percentage of the population.

For example:

http://www.worldandi.com/public/2001/October/ee.html

http://www.mindfully.org/Plastic/Plasti ... 5nov03.htm

 

[Guest]

Check this out:

Although testosterone is a wonderful muscle enhancer it also can produce negative effects. These negative effects are a result of testosterone conversion to estrogen and (DHT) Dihydrotestestosterone. Whether it's the production of natural or synthetic testosterone, a portion will convert to estrogen

From here: http://www.ironcurtainlabs.net/news/news_10012000.html

Here's what I think may be happening:

Synthetic estrogenic compounds are being absorbed by the population, upsetting the hormonal balance of both men and women.

In men, this excess estrogen could be interfering with the bodies natural conversion of a certain percentage of testoterone to estrogen, so the body then converts that testosterone (which was supposed to become estrogen) into DHT instead, messing up mens prostates and hair follicles.

In women, the excess estrogen could be in part or whole responsible for the spike in breast cancer rates over the last few decades.

And also from the same link:

7. Beta-Sitosterol is a phytosterol or plant sterol. Beta-Sitosterol is one of the main active ingredients found in Saw Palmetto berries. Saw Palmetto is an herb thought to help regulate DHT conversion. DHT can be produced from testosterone. DHT is responsible for the negative androgenic properties of testosterone. Testosterone is converted by the enzyme 5-alpha reductase into DHT. Beta-Sitosterol has the ability to inhibit this enzyme thus regulating DHT conversion.

8. Research of phytosterol complexes with Beta-Sitosterol, as the primary ingredient has been positive in regards to DHT regulation.

So it appears that Beta-Sitosterol is likely to be effective as a 5-alpha-reductase inhibitor.

If there's one thing I've learned over the years, it's this:
if you really want to know anything about hormones, and how to regulate them, go to bodybuilding sites... they are light years ahead of mainstream medicine in this regard.

http://www.ironcurtainlabs.net/news/news_10012000.html

 

[Guest]

More interesting info:

"non-responders: testosterone therapy?"

my experience with Avodart has been lackluster, to say the least. I spent two years on the stuff, and it failed to halt my frontal recession. i was even taking 2.5mg a day for the last five months, and failed to see any benefit (unless one counts the added empathy I now feel for old men with sexual and weight problems).

so i spent this afternoon reading about how DHT is unfairly maligned, because it helps keep estrogen levels in check. apparently somebody has also patented a therapy for BPH using (of all things) DHT. the reasoning is that BPH is not exclusively caused by DHT, but also by a high estrogen/testosterone ratio. in old men, too much estrogen can cause the prostate to enlarge, just as too much DHT can.

so for us poor responders, is it possible that our hair problems result not only from DHT (which Avodart has surely suppressed), but also from a high ratio of estrogen to testosterone (which DHT suppression actually makes worse)?

if Avodart doesn't work for us, is it possible that a combination of DHT suppression and testosterone enhancement is the answer?

i'm back on the regular dose of Avodart now, after 9 months on Propecia. since starting Avodart again, i'm shedding like a m@th3rf*ck3r, have no libido, and am gaining weight despite eating well and exercising. i'm going to try adding nettle root to my regimen, to see if this mitigates the side effects from the Avodart.

if it's true that the estrogen/testosterone ratio affects BPH, it may also affect male pattern baldness, and maybe i'll finally respond to Avodart while taking nettles...
-d

From here:

http://www.hairsite4.com/dc/dcboard.php ... ic_id=9228

"Shedding Hair", "Gaining Weight", "No Libido", "Retaining Water"... complaints from people who've had adverse affects from Propecia and Avodart, and coincidentally, all signs of excess estrogen.

What is going on here?

 

[Guest]

Ok, based on the following assumptions:

1) That correct Estrogen/Testosterone balance in the body is crucial.

2) That men are absorbing massive amounts of pseudo-estrogens via contaminated food and water supply.

My hypothesis is as follows:

In an effort to reduce dangerously high estrogen levels, the body takes the testosterone it would have normally converted into estrogen, and converts it to DHT instead, causing baldness.

Then men take 5-alpha-reductase inhibitors to halt production of DHT, causing the body to reverse course, and revert back to converting that testosterone to estrogen again, creating a hormonal see-saw effect.

That would explain the loss of libido and other estrogen related symptoms by some men taking 5-alpha-reductase inhibitors.

The solution then, based on this hypothesis, would be to simultaneously inhibit both DHT production and estrogen production.

Beta-Sitosterol and Nettle Sterols appear to be helpful for these purposes, though the exact mechanisms of action remain to be outlined.

That will have to wait till tomorrow, or perhaps you guys can help me with it, because I'm too tired to think any more.

e

 

[Guest]

Ok, one more interesting site: lol

http://www.restoreunity.org/value_men.htm

 

[ripple-effect]

Yes, I've already known about the estrogen/testosterone imbalance that could lead to hair loss....it's been brought up on this site quite a number of times....I think mainly under New Research, studies, etc... The question is though....how much inhibition of estrogen is too much? How do we properly balance them out and if we start taking supplements to inhibit estrogen is there any other possibilities of the body reacting in some negative way in order to compensate or adapt to what's happening?