Leimo vs revivogen... do they work

[Jacob]

but I think you'd be wise to consider the use of Proxiphen, which attacks the problem of male pattern baldness with technology that's almost exclusively associated with Dr. Proctor. He's been researching this problem for decades, and knows what he's talking about.

And yet there's no evidence out there to show he does know what he's talking about. There's no study...trial..nothing. Not on the finished products..or the individual ingredients that are "almost exclusively associated with Dr. Proctor". The products have been available for decades...and yet- NOTHING.

The same goes for Revivogen. There is nothing really unique about it(except for there being a Doctor behind it??)..and if you want a true doctor/scientist there are plenty of others one could try as well. Crinagen...Dermatopoietin..Elsom Research.. Phyto-Stem(Trichologist even)..the list could go on and on.

 

[Jacob]

Oh man..if we're going to go be one's expertise...there's no better person to trust than this guy: http://www.hairandscalp.com/kingsley.php

Dr. Kingsley is an adjunct member of the American Academy of Dermatologist. He is the only trichologist in the world to have been granted membership to this prestigious organization.
Dr. Kingsley is the only trichologist in North America with a PhD in hair loss research. He attained his PhD through the University of Portsmouth (U.K.)
Dr. Kingsley is the President of the World Trichology Society, and is a member of the North American Hair Research Society, The Trichological Society, and the International Society of Hair Restoration Surgery, among several other boards and organizations.
Dr. Kingsley's patients include famous actors, actresses, musicians, and well-known dignitaries.

He even wrote a book: http://www.amazon.com/Hair-Loss-Cur...45/ref=sr_11_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1233933337&sr=11-1

 

[djb]

Bryan... im not going that way, I cant state it more clearly. no where near enough information I can find on it, its minoxidil, and its not available in this country. By the way, the issue with minoxidil for me was immediate irritations getting to the point of severe annoyance and from everything ive researched on the matter... it appears to be no more guaranteed over time, than any other hair treatments. for some it may hold its potency for 10 years, others 6 months. mixed with the effects, i dont want to take it anymore.

@ Jacob, I found this interesting
http://www.hairandscalp.com/treatments.php

with lasers right up there above minoxidil. Which of course, is what this leimo product does.

The cost is not that much of an issue to me, I can bear it. my main concern is what actually works. Theres just not enough examples of people using these systems, or personal hair lasers, that I can find. Theres a few good testimonials on the internet, but really not enough.

i may enquire about short term laser hair retention clinics here... they may be expensive, but so is leimo over the course of a year, while the clinics have actual patients there i can talk to about how well it works :/

 

[Jacob]

I think he's saying LLLT along with the others mentioned there- "a multifaceted treatment regimen" ..not that LLLT is at the top because it's the best. I could be wrong..and/or wrong about what you meant there.

The clinics make way more sense than any hand-held comb device..even if the clinics are way over priced. Just practice holding a regular comb or brush at various spots on your scalp for 15 minutes or however long they recommend. Doing that each time you use the thing. What a pain.

Did you check out the Laser Cap? Or even the at-home LLLT helmet devices out there?

 

[maximiliandreams]

omg :shakehead:

 

[Jacob]

Not a LLLT fan max? :laugh:

 

[hairhoper]

House, you're the only poster I've ever seen who has a good word to say about revivogen, proxiphen and.. lasers. Three treatments I'm incredibly skeptical of.

Especially as you're using all at once, along with Propecia.

Can you really say without a shadow of a doubt you wouldn't have had exactly the same results using finasteride alone?

Honestly to the OP, I think if you've ruled out finasteride and minoxidil, and not willing to experiment with the more promising experimental drugs (like RU58841, AHK-Cu...) then you're screwed, sorry.

Revivogen, Proxiphen, Tricomin, spironolactone Cream all go in my semi-snakeoil category. They won't save your hair, you won't find a single post by anyone who has done so using one of these treatments alone. Leimo looks like another snakeoil set similar to Revivogen. "Buy our x-part treatment, including shampoo, conditioner, lasers....", basically the kitchen sink of nothing, none of it proven to work and a huge price tag.

ALARM BELLS.

You need 2 treatments, a good antiandrogen and a good growth stimulant. The proven ones are finasteride and minoxidil. That's it. If you absolutely cannot use them you need to look into experimental treatments with strong studies behind them (RU58841, AHK-Cu etc).

 

[DoctorHouse]

Hairhoper, my success could be just do to Propecia. When I took the HairDX test and it said I would be a poor responder to Propecia I did not want to take chance. Therefore, I decided to stay with Proxiphen. There was a time I just used Revivogen and my hair thickened up greatly. So that made me realize it could be helpful. I will admit I am using an "over kill approach" but I still think they all help together. Just my own feeling. You are entitled to your own opinion. If you read my posts, I always mention what works for me, may not work for most. I have never pushed anything on anyone. I still have a great head of hair so I can't complain. I don't push any treatment on anyone.

I do believe you are right, Propecia and minoxidil is all you need. However, I would rather use Proxiphen instead of minoxidil since the Proxiphen cream is alcohol free and I have no sides from it. Minoxidil causes too many problems for me. As of matter of fact, I feel at this point its no longer worth mentioning my treatments because there are too many skeptics on here that doubt anything other than Propecia or minoxidil will work.

Hopefully in the future, we will have something better than Propecia and minoxidil.

 

[MJUK]

To the OP:

One thing you may want to consider is the Immortal Hair supplement regime. I use four of he six items and they contain a mix of potent anti-oxidants including:

1) Anti-oxident Boost -

Curcumin 95: 250mg
Trans-Resveratrol (99%): 100mg
Sulforaphane (1%): 5mg

2 tablets per day

2) Decalcify -

Magnesium Orotate: 300mg
Potassium Orotate: 60mg
Zinc Orotate: 20mg
Boron Citrate: 3mg
Vitamin K2 (menaquinone-4): 5mg
Vitamin K2 (menaquinone-7): 60mcg

1 tablet per day

3) Pure Ecklonia Cava

Ecklonia Cava Extract (98%): 160mg

1 tablet per day

4) Stabilized R-Lipoic Acid

Stabilized R-Lipoic Acid: 100mg

2 tablets per day

These supplements have been tested and have a very positive effect on your overall health but have powerful anti-inflammatory properties.

Inflammation is considered to be a key part in male pattern baldness and is the cause of the 'itch' we have.

Since I started this regime alongside propecia and nizoral, I have no MPD itch at all. It used to be very bad.

You can research all the ingredients and read studies on pubmed. I bought a years supply and I think it worked out to an average of £20-25 per month.

 

[hairhoper]

None of that stuff is proven to stop hairloss or regrow it in male pattern baldness sufferers and as such it is a massive gamble that any of those products will do anything for male pattern baldness.

They may increase the quality of your remaining hair, and your health (though to what degree is impossible to quantify, a statement like 'a very positive effect on your overall health' is meaningless).

Inflammation is considered to be a key part in male pattern baldness and is the cause of the 'itch' we have.

That has not been proven, so please don't state it like a fact.

 

[Jacob]

"These supplements have been tested"

Care to share the study..trial..or whatever you're referring to? How many of those are from the top 6 or 10 or whatever the # was all those years? If those worked btw...you'd think they'd be selling that regimen.

This is an extreme option http://www.lef.org/Vitamins-Supplements/Item01595/Comprehensive-Nutrient-Packs.html but I've said before you can pick any # of things off of Iherb etc and probably be better off.

 

[jh]

House, you're the only poster I've ever seen who has a good word to say about revivogen, proxiphen and.. lasers...

Revivogen, Proxiphen, Tricomin, spironolactone Cream all go in my semi-snakeoil category. They won't save your hair, you won't find a single post by anyone who has done so using one of these treatments alone.

Every time Revivogen is discussed on here, inevitably, someone claims "There hasn't been one poster on here who ever had success with revivogen."

Not true.

I've maintained for the past 6 years using Revivogen and minoxidil.

Admin on this site maintained for a while using revivogen and spironolactone. This site even conducted a 6 month survey of revivogen users and found about 80% of users thought it worked.

Back in the old days, when posters seemed genuinely interested in helping one another, Michael Barry tested revivogen among other substances on his wrist hair. He posted, if I'm not mistaken, that it was responsible for the greatest reduction in body hair of anything tested. (This is a good thing with respect to it slowing/stopping hairloss, by the way).

John

 

[MJUK]

None of that stuff is proven to stop hairloss or regrow it in male pattern baldness sufferers and as such it is a massive gamble that any of those products will do anything for male pattern baldness.

They may increase the quality of your remaining hair, and your health (though to what degree is impossible to quantify, a statement like 'a very positive effect on your overall health' is meaningless).

Inflammation is considered to be a key part in male pattern baldness and is the cause of the 'itch' we have.

That has not been proven, so please don't state it like a fact.

I think it has been widely reported that inflammation is a key component. See the Nizoral studies.

As I said, I have been using them and would take them even without male pattern baldness. I wouldn't use them instead of the big three but alongside. It has been about 4 months since I started and my hair is really good. I was diffused thinning but it seems to have thickened up all over.

 

[MJUK]

"These supplements have been tested"

Care to share the study..trial..or whatever you're referring to? How many of those are from the top 6 or 10 or whatever the # was all those years? If those worked btw...you'd think they'd be selling that regimen.

This is an extreme option http://www.lef.org/Vitamins-Supplements/Item01595/Comprehensive-Nutrient-Packs.html but I've said before you can pick any # of things off of Iherb etc and probably be better off.

Do you have acccess to a search engine? In which case search the ingredients! I'm not doing your homework for you......

There are loads of peer reviewed studies on pubmed relating to all these ingredients. They have been found to have postive effects on many health markers such as insulin sensitivity, cholesterol, lipid profiles, liver function, inflamation gene expression and are power anti-oxidents.

Since I have been taking them I feel great, my skin looks good, hair looks good and I have more energy.

Not sure what you mean regarding selling the regimen? They do sell it. The other supplements are Omega 3 Kirll Oil which I don;t use as I use Cod Oil and they have a shampoo but I use a different brand. Some report the regime works, some report it doesn't. I wouldn't use it in isolation to stop male pattern baldness but it helps some. I take it because I believe it helps male pattern baldness overall and it is very beneficial to my overall health.

 

[MJUK]

This is an extreme option http://www.lef.org/Vitamins-Supplements/Item01595/Comprehensive-Nutrient-Packs.html but I've said before you can pick any # of things off of Iherb etc and probably be better off.

Looks like a comprehensive package but a bit expensive! I did look into the cheapest option and found there overall to be little difference between Iherb and immortals costs, some were cheaper and some more expensive but overall they were a similar cost if not cheaper from immortal with the discount for multiple orders.

 

[Jacob]

Do you have acccess to a search engine? In which case search the ingredients! I'm not doing your homework for you......

There are loads of peer reviewed studies on pubmed relating to all these ingredients. They have been found to have postive effects on many health markers such as insulin sensitivity, cholesterol, lipid profiles, liver function, inflamation gene expression and are power anti-oxidents.

Since I have been taking them I feel great, my skin looks good, hair looks good and I have more energy.

Not sure what you mean regarding selling the regimen? They do sell it. The other supplements are Omega 3 Kirll Oil which I don;t use as I use Cod Oil and they have a shampoo but I use a different brand. Some report the regime works, some report it doesn't. I wouldn't use it in isolation to stop male pattern baldness but it helps some. I take it because I believe it helps male pattern baldness overall and it is very beneficial to my overall health.

When you said "These supplements have been tested" I assumed you meant the combination of them had actually been tested to do what they claim..and hair-benefits had been shown/proven. There are TONS of ingredients/actives that you could find studies on..peer reviewed or not..for the things you mentioned. I'd put up acetyl glutathione by itself against that combo.

On selling the regimen..I'm referring to his Top 6 or ____ all these years. It's changed a bit over the years(even though his hair could never be better before changing it!)...but if it worked so good, why didn't they sell that combo instead of coming out with a "de-calcifying" combination, etc? Maybe he's actually changed his "Top 6" to reflect what they sell these days :dunno: I'd prefer to get things from companies you know are very high quality..anyway.

 

[Jacob]

This is an extreme option http://www.lef.org/Vitamins-Supplements/Item01595/Comprehensive-Nutrient-Packs.html but I've said before you can pick any # of things off of Iherb etc and probably be better off.

Looks like a comprehensive package but a bit expensive! I did look into the cheapest option and found there overall to be little difference between Iherb and immortals costs, some were cheaper and some more expensive but overall they were a similar cost if not cheaper from immortal with the discount for multiple orders.

I don't even mean finding things with all the ingreds that they're selling. One could just pick a decent combination and do just as well..and better. Here's another example out of hundreds: http://www.swansonvitamins.com/SWL001/ItemDetail

 

[MJUK]

When you said "These supplements have been tested" I assumed you meant the combination of them had actually been tested to do what they claim..and hair-benefits had been shown/proven. There are TONS of ingredients/actives that you could find studies on..peer reviewed or not..for the things you mentioned. I'd put up acetyl glutathione by itself against that combo.

On selling the regimen..I'm referring to his Top 6 or ____ all these years. It's changed a bit over the years(even though his hair could never be better before changing it!)...but if it worked so good, why didn't they sell that combo instead of coming out with a "de-calcifying" combination, etc? Maybe he's actually changed his "Top 6" to reflect what they sell these days :dunno: I'd prefer to get things from companies you know are very high quality..anyway.

I don't think immortal hair absolutely claim they do anything. The scientific community have demonstrated the ingredients do a range of things and the immortal hair guys suggest they will be helpful for male pattern baldness. When I said supplements, I meant the ingredients. It is more theoretical based on the evolving understanding of male pattern baldness. I don;t spend a great deal of time on the forum but have seen positive testimonials of people just using the regime and those using as part of a combo like myself.

I don't know what has changed, I think they experiment, I know the Decalcify is a new addition.

I'm happy with quality they have them manufactured in bulk at a GMP approved facility in the US. I'm sure plenty of so called quality suppliers import from China!

But yes you can souce the ingredients from elsewhere and it should have the same benefit. I got mine from there for convience. I looked at Iherb Swanson etc but it would be too much hassle to try and buy from different sources and mix and match.

Each to their own anyway and good luck in your male pattern baldness fight!

 

[Jacob]

"suggest"...wouldn't you rather use something that has a bit more evidence behind it/them that it's going to do something for hair?

Just some quick random examples that come to mind:

http://www.professionaldietetics.com/products/proglyme/proglymeDS.html

http://www.europharmausa.com/products/hair-renew-formula/

http://www.optigenex.com/

http://www.rephairbypierremichel.com/

Some better examples are probably out there. JarroSil or BioSil are some others..etc.

I've been taking some mushroom combos..there are such combos just for hair out there.

And again..I'm not talking about sourcing the ingreds from elsewhere..even though it is a bit strange that they're selling things you can get at 100's of other places. With all that "expertise".. they couldn't come up with a unique combo product? :dunno:


Btw..you'd be surprised what comes out of GMP approved facilities in the US...and/or where they get their ingreds/actives...

 

[MJUK]

"suggest"...wouldn't you rather use something that has a bit more evidence behind it/them that it's going to do something for hair?

Just some quick random examples that come to mind:

http://www.professionaldietetics.com/pr ... ymeDS.html

http://www.europharmausa.com/products/h ... w-formula/

http://www.optigenex.com/

http://www.rephairbypierremichel.com/

Some better examples are probably out there. JarroSil or BioSil are some others..etc.

I've been taking some mushroom combos..there are such combos just for hair out there.

And again..I'm not talking about sourcing the ingreds from elsewhere..even though it is a bit strange that they're selling things you can get at 100's of other places. With all that "expertise".. they couldn't come up with a unique combo product? :dunno:


Btw..you'd be surprised what comes out of GMP approved facilities in the US...and/or where they get their ingreds/actives...

No one knows precisely why we have male pattern baldness and why if affects some people more or less. So we are all experimenting to a certain extent. Immortal hair is just a blog/forum who over the years has evolved and now sell the ingredients they collectively believe most benefitial. I spent quite some time researching the ingredients and it looks like it could be very benefitial in reducing the auto-immune/inflation that is supposed to be associated with male pattern baldness. Yes there all kinds of other experimental ideas that might work but I'm happy with my regime. Who knows to what extent each is helping. My improvement could all down to propecia, DNC, Nizoral, Alpecin or the immortal hair supplements or they could all contibute to a certain extent. One thing is definately though and that is they will be helping my overall heath without doubt so there is no harm in taking them. If my budget was limited, then I would probably use propecia them DNC then the rest but the OP doesn;t want to use propecia. It was just an idea. It might work very well for him, it might not but there is certainly no harm in trying and it will help his overall heath.

That said, the first link you posted lookings interesting and I might add that to me regime in the future. So thanks!