JayMan's weight journal.

[CCS]

Dieting without exercise does not cause muscle loss, according to the first CONTROLLED diet study.

Can I read that study or are you calling my experiment the first controlled diet study? lol

and HTGT you are wrong about that. Ephedrine can help predispose the body to burning more fat than muscle than it would have without it.

I read it on MSN.com. It was on their news clip. Done very recently. The people stayed in a laboratory. One group was given exactly 1750 calories per day, and the other 1875, but they made the second group exercise more than the first group. Both had a calorie deficit of 250 calories per day. Both got enough protein, though I forget how much and how much fat. Both groups lost exactly the same amount of weight, with equal percentages coming from fat or muscle. I forget, but I think 75% of the weight lost was fat in both groups. They concluded that dieting is as good for weight loss as exercise, but the exercise has other health benifits.

I believe if you exercise too intensly without glycogen, you can burn protein as well as fat. Also if you don't eat enough protein, especially when you are dieting, your muscles will atrophy faster.

And the right hormones, like adrinaline, can trigger fat burn, which gives enough blood sugar to spare the muscle. True. But the fat burn is done by other stuff besides muscles, and the hormones can maybe have negative health effects that may outweigh the benifits.

 

[hair today gone tomorrow]

Dieting without exercise does not cause muscle loss, according to the first CONTROLLED diet study.

Can I read that study or are you calling my experiment the first controlled diet study? lol

and HTGT you are wrong about that. Ephedrine can help predispose the body to burning more fat than muscle than it would have without it.

no im not wrong..even with ephedrine when you lose lets say 5lbs of weight it will not be ALL fat....its fat/muscle/water weight

ephedrine my help skew that so its more fat your losing *some* muscle.

 

[Guest]

Dieting without exercise does not cause muscle loss, according to the first CONTROLLED diet study.

Can I read that study or are you calling my experiment the first controlled diet study? lol

and HTGT you are wrong about that. Ephedrine can help predispose the body to burning more fat than muscle than it would have without it.

no im not wrong..even with ephedrine when you lose lets say 5lbs of weight it will not be ALL fat....its fat/muscle/water weight

ephedrine my help skew that so its more fat your losing *some* muscle.

I never said that wasnt the case. It is true though that ephedrine will make it so a larger percentage of what you lose is fat and not muscle. I realize it's impossible to not lose muscle. But again just to my naked eye I don't think I've lost much muscle and I credit a lot of that to the ephedrine, because when I did this 3 years ago, I did lose substantial muscle.

 

[hair today gone tomorrow]

Dieting without exercise does not cause muscle loss, according to the first CONTROLLED diet study.

Can I read that study or are you calling my experiment the first controlled diet study? lol

and HTGT you are wrong about that. Ephedrine can help predispose the body to burning more fat than muscle than it would have without it.

no im not wrong..even with ephedrine when you lose lets say 5lbs of weight it will not be ALL fat....its fat/muscle/water weight

ephedrine my help skew that so its more fat your losing *some* muscle.

I never said that wasnt the case. It is true though that ephedrine will make it so a larger percentage of what you lose is fat and not muscle. I realize it's impossible to not lose muscle. But again just to my naked eye I don't think I've lost much muscle and I credit a lot of that to the ephedrine, because when I did this 3 years ago, I did lose substantial muscle.

no what you did say was that i was wrong...

I orginally posted:

if you lose weight a certain percentage is fat a certain percentage is water and a certain percentage is muscle

YOU responded with:
and HTGT you are wrong about that. Ephedrine can help predispose the body to burning more fat than muscle than it would have without it.

I never said you cant skew the percentages did I...obv you can cut fat and minimize the muscle lost...

it works the other weigh too..when bulking you can never gain 100% muscle...you will gain some fat..but a CLEAN bulk tries to minimize that fat.

 

[Guest]

my bad i thought you meant specific when you said certain.

 

[CCS]

jayman, 3 years ago did you do intense exercise while dieting? and what was your protein intake? And was the protein intake spread out?

 

[Guest]

jayman, 3 years ago did you do intense exercise while dieting? and what was your protein intake? And was the protein intake spread out?

3 years ago i also did no exercise while dieting.

i took in about 650 cals a day then and my protein intake was about 40 grams a day.

 

[CCS]

i think you lost muscle because of the low protein. you did not burn muscle, per say, but rather had rapid atrophy.

your muscles are constantly breaking down rebuilding and recycling amino acids. As long as the blood has amino acids in it, recycling goes good. But during dieting, the liver turns it's amino acids stores to blood sugar or fat, and takes amino acids from the blood. Then at the muscle, you have no amino acids in the blood, so you get a net diffusion of the amino acids away from the muscles, instead of being recycled.

Now too much amino acids in the blood will cause the liver to make sugar too, and stress your kidneys with the amonia.

Anyway, if you get less than 200 calories from fat, or 70 grams of protein, your body can't maintain it's vital tissues. You can get by on 50 grams of protein if you are not on a diet.

ephedrine just lets you burn fat without exercising. I don't think it has any affect on how much is fat and how much is muscle. The two ways to burn muscle are to make a lot of cortisol with high intensity exercise, or have attrophy from not enough protein, which is accelerated when you are dieting.

Just eat 70-80 grams of protein throughout the day, and 20 grams of essential fat, and you should not burn muscle, and your only problem will be reduced metabolism.

 

[Guest]

well i'm also having 650 cals a day now as well as 40 grams of protein, and it doesn't seem to be an issue. maybe cause of the ephedrine?

 

[CCS]

I actually don't buy the theory that exercise keeps your metabolism high. If you have a calorie deficit, your body might reduce its metabolism. I think 500 calories a day is not a big deficit, but stuff well in excess of 1000 that is maintained for a while is probably what causes metabolism reduction. Also, losing weight fast can cause loose skin for a while.

I've seen many people lose weight fast, then gain it back fast. Many. Good job if you keep it off.

 

[Guest]

Also, losing weight fast can cause loose skin for a while.

This hasn't happened yet but how do you get rid of it if it happens?

And I've been at the same weight for 5 days now on the scale. How is that possible? I'm still eating way less than my basal metabolic rate but I do drink a lot of water every day, probably a gallon while sitting at the computer and in my car. Maybe it's water weight and that's why.

 

[CCS]

if it happens, you just have to wait for your skin to shrink. It only happens if you lose fat faster than you skin can shrink. As long as you were not 300 pounds or did not stretch your skin (stretch marks) when you put on the weight, you should be able to get it back to the original size. Loose skin is what some dumb women call cellulite. They think it is a different kind of fat. They get it from pigging out for a few months and then starving themselves for a few months, in cycles.

 

[CCS]

there is a chance it is water weight, if it is only 5 days, But your body can only hold so much water weight, and would hold it evenly where there is muscle. Fat cells can't hold water. Only blood and muscle can (polarity issues). So you'd still notice a change in your waist size if it were water weight increasing while fat decreases. More likely, you metabolism has dropped enough that you are no longer losing weight.

Do not do high intensity exercise, or you will burn muscle. To burn more fat you may need to hop on an exercise bike and pick a constant intensity that makes your heart rate 125 BPM.

Eat 80 grams of protein spread throughout the day, and eat 20 grams total of nuts and flax seeds and fish oil to get you essential fats. That is about 500 calories, so if you want 800, you can get the remaining 300 from oats. Spread those out during the day.

It might be wise to take a break from your diet for a few weeks and try to get your metabolism up to 2000 calories per day without gaining weight back. Not only is this safe, but you will be able to burn a lot more fat again later when you cut the calories again. If you are not losing weight even at 800 calories per day, then this diet is not helping you right now.

 

[CHL24]

'Anyway, I was wrong about you burning muscle. You burn muscle if you do high intensity exercise with no glycogen in your muscles. Fat can only provide enough engergy for low intensity exercise, like heart rate 65% your max.'

Have alook on the net for some HIT (High Intensity Training) routines - I think you will find that high intensity training is much better at burning fat than low intensity - althought a good level of fittness is required to do the routines effectively.

http://www.rossboxing.com

http://www.muscletalk.co.uk

good sites that explain HIT training (if you dont know what it already is , im too lazy to read the whole post but ur post made out that low intensity training is the best for burning fat, which is NOT true.)

 

[CHL24]

and I wouldnt recommend taking that low of a daily calorie intake its stupid.... HIT training will also kick start you're metabolism so you will be burning more fat after you've finnished you're workout for longer than you would be doing low intensity training, but I dont recommend doing HIT training on a daily calorie intake of < 1000 calories - I think thats totally stupid and the wrong way to go about reducing bodyfat.

 

[CCS]

I never said HIT won't burn more fat than low intensity training. But HIT may burn more muscle too, whereas the low intensity will burn proportionately less.

You won't burn a lot of fat unless your glycogen stores are empty. So if HIT burns more fat after you stop, that will stop as soon as you get some food in your system. It takes a while for it to digest. But once your blood sugar or blood fat levels climb after a meal, your body won't need to burn fat anymore. Maybe it will burn up the meal so you are fasting later instead of living on glycogen.

HIT usually tears muscle and makes testosterone. It is usually good to eat and get carbs and protein to your muscles right after HIT because you can grow a lot right then with the high testosterone levels. But doing that will stop the fat burn, and not eating may cause muscle loss.

HIT is healthy, but use it for muscle gain. Use low intensity for fat loss at least 12 hours later.

 

[CCS]

also, you can't achieve true high intensity unless you have glycogen in your muscles. Fat does not burn as fast as glycogen. Otherwise athletes would not load up on carbs before a race. Yeah, carbs protect muscle, but that is not why they eat them. They eat them so they will have energy, and that applies to amatures who have enough fat to burn.

 

[CCS]

Anyone know the name(s) of the chemical (released by the adrenal gland?) that causes fat cells to release fat into the blood when blood sugar levels drop?

I thought cortisol did this, but now I'm reading it mostly breaks down amino acids, not fat. Then I read adrinaline does this (but is adrinaline a class of compounds or just one?) and that it is called en-ephinephrine or something.

If we could find what this compound is, and apply it topically to your belly while you sleep, then your body might take a disproportionate amount of fat from your belley, instead of other areas. Also, the reduced dose would have less systemic side effects, and suppress the adrenal gland less.

 

[CCS]

http://www.nutritional-solutions.com/he ... e-body.htm

Adrenals:

Regulates salt-to-potassium, regulates carbohydrate metabolism, regulates sexual function- SEX-SALT-SUGAR
Cortisol- anti inflammatory, pain regulation, converts food into sugar, protein metabolism and reactions from allergies
Can cause high blood pressure
Problems with protein absorption
Ketosis will not occur unless cortisol is available (fat burning)
To much Cortisol can cause obesity
Excessive Cortisol may cause, high blood pressure, increase insulin
Decrease of Cortisol shows up as osteoporosis (due to a lack of protein), changes in posture, dizziness when rising from a seated position

Epinephrine
Increase the activity of the heart in extreme stress situations
Increases glucose levels for the muscles so they can respond to an emergency
Constricts blood vessels, increases heart activity and shuts down digestion
Most powerful form of flight-or-fight response
Needed for short durations only
Activating Epinephrine to much or to often can cause problems such as, blood pressure problems, sweating, heart palpitations, inability to lose weight and headaches

Norepinephrine
Norepinephrine will have a similar affect on the body as Epinephrine with a slight difference. It causes a stronger constrictions of blood vessels, increases blood pressure but is does not increase the metabolism as much as epinephrine
All the blood goes to the large muscles and away from digestion
Feels as though you are being chases by a lion
To much of these hormones may cause high blood pressure, difficulty sleeping, poor digestion and problems handling stress
----------------

Hydrocortisone cream is just synthetic cortisol. Anti-inflammatory. But a stress hormone inside, in high amounts. It can cause muscle break down, but also fat burn. I wonder if I apply 1% hydrocortisone cream to my stomach, if I'd burn a disproportionate amount of fat there over night. It also says cortisol can cause obesity. I wonder how.


OK, cortisol can increase insulin by releasing fat and protein to be made into sugar, which insulin then puts back into fat sells or muscle cells. Too much cortisol can trigger increased insulin this way. But as long as you have low levels of cortisol to just meet the metabolism needs, insulin is not raised. Obesity occurs when muscle is broken down, turned to sugar, and then stored as fat. Obessity can also occur if your cells get insensitive to cortisol, and don't release fat any more, you just get hungry and eat more to get your energy. So don't use it too much or this will happen. Same with ephedrine. Just use it for short term touch up after you've lost a lot of weight, if you are not storing the remaining small amounts of fat in the location you want. Only do that short term.

 

[CCS]

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articl ... tid=371925

this study is dead on topic. It says that a synergy of hormones is needed to release fat into the blood. Cortisol by itself does not affect fat release.


more precisely, cortisol does not raise blood sugar levels by itself. Maybe it releases fat but does not cause the fat to turn to sugar? I want to look into that. Maybe topical hydrocortisone could still help with spot reduction.