Italian Hair Loss Lotion To Hit The Market In 2016
- Thread starter paleocapa89
- Start date
- Reaction score
- 968
As far as I know Brotzu is holding a presentation about his lotion. Mostlikely only about Alopecia Areata and not Androgenetic Alopecia.
Ikkaku
Established Member
- Reaction score
- 339
Nix tu ne changes pas mdrrrr
- Reaction score
- 14
Seriously ! 136 pages of discussion for -nothing- ?Just wait for the release, then...cry
@Ikkaku, who are youuu ???
If you think its sh*t then that's your opinion but you don't know that yet, what will be funny is if it works and your there with no access to it, who will be crying then haha, you are obviously bothered about hairloss to be even on here or you are just a sad sad person who feels the need to troll and get a buzz from, do yourself a favour and go sit on a hot frying pan
- Reaction score
- 14
Questions
Question and answers from brotzu himself :
Questions 1, 2 and 3. The lotion is very effective in the initial stages of alopecia, for people who are younger than 30 years old. The results are great and hair loss is completely stopped. Hair growth is witnessed and also miniaturized hair or even vellus gain their normal appearance again.
Of course the treatment gives clear results after circa 30 days and it has to be carried out for many months.
Question 4. According to our experience, once the patient obtains positive results, I advicethey repeat the treatment at least three times a year, or they follow a maintenance therapy twice a week.
Question 5. The patients who responded better are the youngest ones and the ones in which androgenetic alopecia was in the initial stage (less than two years)
Question 18 and 19. Considering our experiences, we don’t believe that we need to produce different products for patients with Androgenetic Alopecia and with AA.
Question and answers from brotzu himself :
- In your opinion what are the expectations an individual suffering from Androgenetic Alopecia should have towards your product?
- Do you think this product has the potential to eliminate the problem of Androgenetic Alopecia?
- Considering the trials you carried out and your opinion, to what extent can areas characterized by Androgenetic Alopecia, with miniaturized hair or even vellus, improve?
- Brotzu, in case of Androgenetic Alopecia, does the therapy have to last forever or it can be suspended or even completely stopped?
- Considering your trials and your experience, what individuals suffering from Androgenetic Alopecia responded better to the therapy as far as gender and age are concerned?
Questions 1, 2 and 3. The lotion is very effective in the initial stages of alopecia, for people who are younger than 30 years old. The results are great and hair loss is completely stopped. Hair growth is witnessed and also miniaturized hair or even vellus gain their normal appearance again.
Of course the treatment gives clear results after circa 30 days and it has to be carried out for many months.
Question 4. According to our experience, once the patient obtains positive results, I advicethey repeat the treatment at least three times a year, or they follow a maintenance therapy twice a week.
Question 5. The patients who responded better are the youngest ones and the ones in which androgenetic alopecia was in the initial stage (less than two years)
Question 18 and 19. Considering our experiences, we don’t believe that we need to produce different products for patients with Androgenetic Alopecia and with AA.
Should we do a recap of your interventions on the french forum? Can you develop this statement?Seriously ! 136 pages of discussion for -nothing- ?
@Ikkaku, who are youuu ???
Yeah, sometimes it's better to stay silent.
Ya know, a wise man once said: "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt".Seriously ! 136 pages of discussion for -nothing- ?
@Ikkaku, who are youuu ???
This forum has some wise users in username1 and mr_robot. I"ll post this in both relevant threads I guess. I spoke to a knowledgeable chemist at a compounding pharmacy here in NY (Haldey Pharma). After mentioning a doctor's prescription would be required, he read through the patent. He first tried to source the components and then looked at the preparation methodology. He said the following:
1) Components
He can get phosphatidylcholine but does not have a *verified* source for DGLA, S-Equol and L-propionylcarnitine (not sure about Stearylamine) and thus cannot fabricate as this is a regulatory constraint. Unsurprisingly, he would *not* recommend I get them from China.
I'm in the second GB and Spato mentioned European suppliers exist but they are very expensive so he had to go outside Europe. He says the lab that's working with him are using their supplier, don't know if they're Chinese. I believe Spato is genuine (though I'm not sure how he'll Fedex everyone this time around without asking for more money, or is Fedex roughly the same cost as what he used for the first GB?). If I receive a bottle from Spato, I can either start to use immediately or try to have it analysed first (which may be prohibitively expensive). Others who claimed to have received it generally did not complain of anything drastic (while one guy apparently sold his bottle bc of side effects he was experiencing, I'm more concerned about lead poisoning and other risks from a shoddy supplier than sides from the active ingredients which we would have gotten from the commercial product as well.) I'd like to know exactly how expensive a reputable European (or any country) supplier would be if they exist. If anyone has any info, please share.
Interestingly, the chemist mentioned that health supplement companies produce some of these chemicals (S Equol, L-propionylcarnitine) but the capsule formulations are not pure. Nonetheless, we could break the capsules and try to formulate lotion from the liquid. Based on what I write below about liposomal delivery, my guess is that wouldn't work well.
2) Preparation
The methodology is vague as one would expect. The parameters of the liposome preparation are not known so it's impossible for any compounding pharmacy in the world to replicate. This has been mentioned by username1 and mr_robot. The patent represents a manufacturing process (not a compound) which requires industrial chemical equipment etc. He also said he believes the components arrive with impurities and that they likely use the sonicator to reclaim the original substances.
Now, Spato did work with a lab (and a sonicator) to produce a lotion. According to this chemist, Spato likely didn't get the liposomes correct, which would affect the effectiveness as the delivery mechanism is suboptimal. Further, mr_robot mentioned getting the preservatives right might be trial and error - however, those who claim to have received it make no mention of stability/preservation issues so can we assume that obstacle has been overcome? I agree with username1 that the effectiveness should only be judged based on the official product. But given that my principle is to continue to attempt to test it (as safely as possible) until Fidia actually releases it, my question is does this suboptimality necessarily mean 100% of the benefit will be lost? Spato's latest post shows a photo with claims of new vellus hairs as he's been using for a few weeks now. What to make of this?
http://rivoluzionecapelli.blogspot.it/
Will try to find labs (in less regulated geographies) that may take this on. Do you guys feel that anageninc could get this done properly? Another poster mentioned one of Kane's users got lead poisoning (or something like that?) which gives me pause. Perhaps anageninc is familiar enough with liposomal delivery into the scalp?
Feedback welcomed and encouraged.
Last edited:
MrJolly16
Experienced Member
- Reaction score
- 602
I´d rather trust a NY lab or supplier, than Spato. Don´t trust the guy! We are also looking for a different lab that can help us, I´ll let you know cause it´s difficult since they don´t have a sonicator.
But if you get a new lab, I´m in! (if you FedEx the lotion of course, cause with Spato everything was quite weird).
But if you get a new lab, I´m in! (if you FedEx the lotion of course, cause with Spato everything was quite weird).
I m in too !!
somebody çan propose me a plan before lotion brotzu is available without fina or minoxidil something natural or without side EFFECT ...
Thanks
Biotin
castor oil
Etc
Shampoo nizoral nioxin regenpure ...
Low efficient but i need my balls for the future
somebody çan propose me a plan before lotion brotzu is available without fina or minoxidil something natural or without side EFFECT ...
Thanks
Biotin
castor oil
Etc
Shampoo nizoral nioxin regenpure ...
Low efficient but i need my balls for the future
- Reaction score
- 1,837
Minoxidil will not do anything to your balls, if your are experiencing hair thinning at a young age (specially diffuse thinning) then you likely won't even maintain with Biotin, castor oil, etc.I m in too !!
somebody çan propose me a plan before lotion brotzu is available without fina or minoxidil something natural or without side EFFECT ...
Thanks
Biotin
castor oil
Etc
Shampoo nizoral nioxin regenpure ...
Low efficient but i need my balls for the future
Thanks @MrJolly16. Maybe we should trade contact info so we can coordinate and delegate the work efficiently. But the first question to answer is whether we have enough information in the patent to create a lotion that will be effective. It *seemed* the patent explained a lot in detail *AND* I'd like to point out that the patent refers to other earlier patents of Brotzu's which might give more detail on how these liposomes are processed:
Liposomes containing prostaglandin e1 (pge1) and a plant oestrogen, formulations for topical use containing them and their use
https://www.google.com/patents/WO2013171668A1?cl=en
Liposomes containing prostaglandin e1 (pge1), formulations containing them and their use
https://www.google.com/patents/WO2011095938A1?cl=en
But the chemist I spoke to and scientists on this board say that we will never be able to replicate Brotzu's process exactly. Fine, accepted. Does this mean our custom lotion would have little/zero efficacy? I can't answer that, would love to hear from someone who can.
*IF* we're going to try to get as close as possible anyway, which type of lab is best? I mentioned Anagen Inc (http://anageninc.com/) even though I'm not that familiar simply because they can get components (from China I guess?) that are harder/impossible to find in regulated places, would be willing to do the work and may have an idea of how best to prepare the mixture in order to maximize efficacy since their focus is topical hair treatments. The patent apparently omits certain important details about the process/preparation so WE WANT THE LAB THAT WILL BEST FILL IN THE BLANKS. My *guess* (and please correct me) is that those missing parameters are the exact methods/temperatures/times used in mixing the components. The description in the patent says "X is dissolved in Y" or "A is added to B" but perhaps this is a lot more involved that just pouring two substances into the same beaker? Heating/cooling/stirring/filtering/pressurization etc may all be part of the process? From the patent:
"Method A
DGLA, S-equol and stearylamine are dissolved in the dose of ethanol and phosphatidylcholine is added to the solution. Propionylcarnitine is dissolved in 5 ml of water and the thus obtained solution is added to the previous one. The resulting mixture is placed in a sonicator (Sonipress 150 kw) and submitted to 25 sonication cycles. Each cycle is composed of 5 seconds of full power sonication alternating with 2 seconds of rest. The lotion thus obtained is divided into 5 vials and each one is brought to the volume of 7 ml with additional sterile water. The lotion thus obtained is ready for use.
Method B
DGLA, S-equol, stearylamine and L-propionylcarnitine are dissolved in the dose of ethanol and the solution obtained, after addition of phosphatidylcholine, is placed in a sonicator (Sonipress 150 kw) and submitted to 25 sonication cycles. Each cycle is composed of 5 seconds of full power sonication alternating with 2 seconds of rest. Ethanol is then completely evaporated and the liposomes obtained are brought into contact with 5 ml of sterile water. The lotion thus obtained is divided into 5 vials and each one is brought to the volume of 7 ml with additional sterile water. The lotion is ready for use."
Since the search is global, we can really use guys who speak multiple languages. It's clear at this point that getting this done will require going "underground", toward less regulated (and thus more risky) labs. Since US/Canada are so strictly regulated, we either find a lab operating under the radar (ie illegally) here in North America (I wouldn't know where to start there) or we go with a country that has lax regulations. However, this is not my domain of expertise at all so I have no idea of the landscape. Would help to have the opinion of someone who's expert in this sort of thing. China seems like one of the few possibilities. Does anyone know if the Indians or the Russians are capable of something like this? I'm going to post this in the other thread ("Making Brotzu Lotion") since it's more appropriate given what we're discussing, please reply there and not here.
News from the italian guys.
http://rivoluzionecapelli.blogspot.it/2016/10/news-elementie-foto-scusate-l-attesa-ma.html?m=1
So he updated his blog with a picture and showing some news hair in the temple. And he says that the majority of feedback are positive. People claiming zero sebum and itching (that what I was hoping for) and deacrease/stop loss ...
And he says in the second gb he s gonna change the shippement methode.
http://rivoluzionecapelli.blogspot.it/2016/10/news-elementie-foto-scusate-l-attesa-ma.html?m=1
So he updated his blog with a picture and showing some news hair in the temple. And he says that the majority of feedback are positive. People claiming zero sebum and itching (that what I was hoping for) and deacrease/stop loss ...
And he says in the second gb he s gonna change the shippement methode.