Italian Hair Loss Lotion To Hit The Market In 2016

Drogedagh

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From Brotzus answers, if the quote below is accurate and based on my following, the s-equol would act the much the same as as finasteride by inhibiting the conversion of Testosterone to DHT.

...Efficacy aside, thats exactly what people who've been having finasteride sides (myself included) and looking for something new would not want.

Can anyone chime in who has a better understanding here?



PGE1 improved microcirculation, s-equol stopped 5-α-reductase thus preventing testosterone to turn into dihydrotestosterone and carnitine entered the beta oxidation of lipid chains improving their metabolism.
explanation from Folexen thread:
Enzymatic inhibitors have a drawback in that, for some men, the recommended dosage might not be sufficient to deactivate all the 5AR without causing other problems. In other words everyone probably has a dosage level at which the medication will work, but for some people there are too many concomitant side effects for the treatment to be safe. Merck have shown that normal dose Propecia resulted in improvement for 77% of patients [4]. Presumably a different treatment is required for the remaining men.

This is where S-equol can step up to the plate. It has a mode of action that is very different to the 5AR inhibitors. Instead of preventing the production of DHT, it binds strongly to the DHT molecules. When DHT has S-equol attached to it, it is no longer a form of 'free DHT', i.e. it cannot cause male pattern baldness because the molecule is no longer able to bind to receptor sites.

The ability of S-equol to bind to DHT is very strong [1][2], which is good news for us. Theoretically there are sufficient levels of S-equol in serum, all the DHT can be mopped-up before it can cause damage, even the DHT that is inside hair follicles. S-equol is a small molecule, not a protein, so it has no problem crossing cell membranes.
some user's post:
Equol binds to DHT directly and changes it chemical form so it doesn't do the damage it would otherwise --- supposedly.....nobody really knows if this is effective for hairloss and the bio-chemical processes that dictate whether hair falls out or not...

finasteride affects the 5aR enzyme that is a catalyst for normal Testosterone conversion to DHT...finasteride limits DHT levels indirectly...but 5aR is an enzyme that does a whole host of other things and screwing with that will screw with you -- like your estrogen levels

So finasteride inhibits 5ar, which is responsible for other functions besides DHT, s-equol only inhibits DHT.
 

Afro_Vacancy

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explanation from Folexen thread:

some user's post:


So finasteride inhibits 5ar, which is responsible for other functions besides DHT, s-equol only inhibits DHT.

Moreover finasteride inhibits 5ar in the skin, in the blood, and in the cerebrospinal fluid.

This is a topical equol cream. We don't know to what extent it will go systemic.
 

That Guy

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I've never heard him state it can only bring you back 2 years, he's always said the lotion can bring you back 5 years with 2 years of use

You've misquoted JLC. He says in the interview that it is most effective in early alopecia - people who've only been balding for around 2 years.
 

Dench57

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From Brotzus answers, if the quote below is accurate and based on my following, the s-equol would act the much the same as as finasteride by inhibiting the conversion of Testosterone to DHT.

...Efficacy aside, thats exactly what people who've been having finasteride sides (myself included) and looking for something new would not want.

Can anyone chime in who has a better understanding here?



PGE1 improved microcirculation, s-equol stopped 5-α-reductase thus preventing testosterone to turn into dihydrotestosterone and carnitine entered the beta oxidation of lipid chains improving their metabolism.

He's wrong. S-equol has no action on 5AR (like finasteride/dutasteride). It binds to DHT molecules themselves. Does not interfere with T->DHT.

Doesn't fill me with confidence that he's making such an amateur statement.
Also the ridiculous "5 year regrowth" claim, yet there is no data/hair counts or photos from over 4 years of trials and testing? ok m8
 

Afro_Vacancy

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He's wrong. S-equol has no action on 5AR (like finasteride/dutasteride). It binds to DHT molecules themselves. Does not interfere with T->DHT.

Doesn't fill me with confidence that he's making such an amateur statement.
Also the ridiculous "5 year regrowth" claim, yet there is no data/hair counts or photos from over 4 years of trials and testing? ok m8

The 5-year growth idea is clearly anecdotal, and I'm disappointed in people taking it to seriously.
 

begbie

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I hope that's all correct. Was on finasteride for 13 years with excellent results. Quit a year ago, and it was no bullshit night and day how much better I felt while off (libido, spontaneous/nocturnal erections, overall vitality returned dramatically etc).

3 weeks ago reluctantly restarted finasteride when my quitting finally caught up and my hair started to recede extremely rapidly. I'm at a NW3 now, and was planning to stay on finasteride for just a couple more months this second time around to keep what hair I have left until something could replace it...like the lotion.

This lotion is kind of my last hope (no pressure!). Otherwise I'm going to have to quit finasteride and just accept baldness and maybe hope for that Japanese cell transplant in 2020. Cannot tolerate the sides on finasteride much longer than a couple more months.

Really hoping we all will learn from the GB in coming weeks that not only does the lotion work (sounds pretty hopeful) AND that there are no (or minimal) sides.
 

Dench57

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The 5-year growth idea is clearly anecdotal, and I'm disappointed in people taking it to seriously.

Brotzu: "Consider also that our knowledge of this product allows us to say that you can recover at least 5 years of hair loss"

Pretty bold statement from the man himself if you ask me. The whole premise of people believing in this product in the absence of any actual data is because this guy is supposedly a respected and well-known doctor - so why shouldn't people take his claims seriously?

I hope that his statements on s-equol and 5AR are just lost in translation or something because such a basic misunderstanding of a key mechanism in his ingredient is worrying.
 

begbie

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Agreed. Could be very well likely it was either lost in translation or that his response was less than scientifically precise because he intended the answer more on lay mans terms than for the well informed lot on this forum
 

Afro_Vacancy

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Brotzu: "Consider also that our knowledge of this product allows us to say that you can recover at least 5 years of hair loss"

Pretty bold statement from the man himself if you ask me. The whole premise of people believing in this product in the absence of any actual data is because this guy is supposedly a respected and well-known doctor - so why shouldn't people take his claims seriously?

I hope that his statements on s-equol and 5AR are just lost in translation or something because such a basic misunderstanding of a key mechanism in his ingredient is worrying.

I like to believe that I have a good filter to gauge when people are speaking rationally and when they are not.

I don't believe that claim in and of itself, though it may be that it generally holds true in the sample of a few dozen men that Brotzu has tested it on.

The claim doesn't make sense, because we know that people have different aggression levels in their Androgenetic Alopecia. For some its slow and for some its fast. For those with really aggressive Androgenetic Alopecia, if they're NW6 at age 22, it's likely that all of their hairs are very dead. We also know that the response rates to finasteride for example are variable.
 

jc3303

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Brotzu: "Consider also that our knowledge of this product allows us to say that you can recover at least 5 years of hair loss"

Pretty bold statement from the man himself if you ask me. The whole premise of people believing in this product in the absence of any actual data is because this guy is supposedly a respected and well-known doctor - so why shouldn't people take his claims seriously?

I hope that his statements on s-equol and 5AR are just lost in translation or something because such a basic misunderstanding of a key mechanism in his ingredient is worrying.

It's more than just the fact he's a respected doctor but that does factor in for sure. I mean why would fidia purchase the patent from him if it didn't work? if they wanted to sell snake oil they'd just make something themselves and save money. There's also that AA suffer who was part of Brotzu's trial that came forward who is stating it works and she has no reason to lie. It also has real active ingredients that could promote hair growth and inhibit DHT.

I will admit there is nothing concrete here in terms of evidence, but it does sound promising
 

Dench57

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I like to believe that I have a good filter to gauge when people are speaking rationally and when they are not.

I don't believe that claim in and of itself, though it may be that it generally holds true in the sample of a few dozen men that Brotzu has tested it on.

The claim doesn't make sense, because we know that people have different aggression levels in their Androgenetic Alopecia. For some its slow and for some its fast. For those with really aggressive Androgenetic Alopecia, if they're NW6 at age 22, it's likely that all of their hairs are very dead. We also know that the response rates to finasteride for example are variable.

Hence why I chose "ridiculous". Because that's what it is.
 

begbie

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He could just be saying '5 years' as a generality and because 95% of male pattern baldness sufferers are not as into the minutiae as we all are. Most likely he's using that timeframe as a rough guide that you'll be able to Recoup lost hair that still has active follicles.
 

jc3303

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You see people recover a few years of hair loss with min and occasionally good responders get 3+ years. So why can't this be superior to min?

Rivertown is reviving follicles that have been "dead" for decades with a topical! That sounds more unbelievable and they must have achieved it to win that best in show award.
 

Afro_Vacancy

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You see people recover a few years of hair loss with min and occasionally good responders get 3+ years. So why can't this be superior to min?

Rivertown is reviving follicles that have been "dead" for decades with a topical! That sounds more unbelievable and they must have achieved it to win that best in show award.

It can, but the response will be variable, something not captured in the quote "five years of hairloss".
 

worm

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I hope that's all correct. Was on finasteride for 13 years with excellent results. Quit a year ago, and it was no bullshit night and day how much better I felt while off (libido, spontaneous/nocturnal erections, overall vitality returned dramatically etc).

3 weeks ago reluctantly restarted finasteride when my quitting finally caught up and my hair started to recede extremely rapidly. I'm at a NW3 now, and was planning to stay on finasteride for just a couple more months this second time around to keep what hair I have left until something could replace it...like the lotion.

This lotion is kind of my last hope (no pressure!). Otherwise I'm going to have to quit finasteride and just accept baldness and maybe hope for that Japanese cell transplant in 2020. Cannot tolerate the sides on finasteride much longer than a couple more months.

Really hoping we all will learn from the GB in coming weeks that not only does the lotion work (sounds pretty hopeful) AND that there are no (or minimal) sides.

Your story sounds like mine almost verbatim. I never went back on. I discovered zix. You buy the vitamins from amazon and mix it yourself, it costs $15 for the year. It saved my hair. Look up worm and zix on google I'm sure you'll find my story. Don't mean to hijack this forum. Sorry.
 

That Guy

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You do realize this forum has a multi-quote function, right? Because reading 2-3 posts in a row from you quoting a different person each time is givin' me eyeball-aids.
 

resu

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There's really no new info being posted, no point in checking the thread just to read the same questions and answers.
 
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