is there any association between working out and hairloss?

RalphyWiggum

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First of all, I have missed a lot I can see.

Second, He doesn't need to "cite" any papers to show that elevated levels of free radicals are harmful to one's health. That's medical dogma. Oxidation causes free radicals to exist. Yes, without a certain amount of free radicals we would inevitably die, but too many can damage cells.

Third, I think we can all agree here that marathon runners are NOT the healthiest individuals. Too much of anything can be a bad thing.

Fourth, I know bruce wasn't saying aerobic exercise causes disease. I think what he is asserting is all things in moderation and just like in hair loss treatment variation is the key to success.
 

zak84

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Re: .

afro21 said:
does anyone here take creatine?... some people have recommended it to me, but i don't want to put anything in my body that i don't know much of. what exactly does creatine do and will it make me "monstrous" faster?

Afro Thunder :rockon:


creatine is like any OTC drug, take it as intended and you will be ok, there have been reports of injury due to creatine but usually its from people who take too much or intake enough water

the key to taking the powdered form is simple, drink lots and lots of water, its possible you can run into trouble if you ignore the simple safety precautions, now if thats a worry to you, the serum form, which is labeled "safer" by alot of fitness trainers, seems to be a better choice for a worrier, although water is still important, you essentially take less creatine with the serum (although you get the same effect) and safety is easier

as far as the results, for me i did get an extra "umph" of energy for my workout, its not the miracle drug or anything but if you eat a the right things (lots of proteins) and have good work out plans you will build muscle, creatine cant make the muscles for you but it can offer some assistance
 
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Re: .

zak84 said:
afro21 said:
does anyone here take creatine?... some people have recommended it to me, but i don't want to put anything in my body that i don't know much of. what exactly does creatine do and will it make me "monstrous" faster?

Afro Thunder :rockon:


creatine is like any OTC drug, take it as intended and you will be ok, there have been reports of injury due to creatine but usually its from people who take too much or intake enough water

the key to taking the powdered form is simple, drink lots and lots of water, its possible you can run into trouble if you ignore the simple safety precautions, now if thats a worry to you, the serum form, which is labeled "safer" by alot of fitness trainers, seems to be a better choice for a worrier, although water is still important, you essentially take less creatine with the serum (although you get the same effect) and safety is easier

as far as the results, for me i did get an extra "umph" of energy for my workout, its not the miracle drug or anything but if you eat a the right things (lots of proteins) and have good work out plans you will build muscle, creatine cant make the muscles for you but it can offer some assistance

Very similar to my experience. And yes, the water intake is important as one can tend to cramp on creatine!
 
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RalphyWiggum said:
First of all, I have missed a lot I can see.

Second, He doesn't need to "cite" any papers to show that elevated levels of free radicals are harmful to one's health. That's medical dogma. Oxidation causes free radicals to exist. Yes, without a certain amount of free radicals we would inevitably die, but too many can damage cells.

Third, I think we can all agree here that marathon runners are NOT the healthiest individuals. Too much of anything can be a bad thing.

Fourth, I know bruce wasn't saying aerobic exercise causes disease. I think what he is asserting is all things in moderation and just like in hair loss treatment variation is the key to success.

Thanks for the support Ralph. Well articulated!

:lol:
 

HairlossTalk

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Yeddie said:
n that case, there are plenty of monstrous athletes out there who are entirely bald. That thinking process right there should have answered the original posters question. Piss-poor logic, isolated anecdotes without context neither prove nor disprove anything.
He asked about an absolute. He wanted to know if working out causes hair loss. The way the question was worded, he was asking about something happening for anyone that works out. The easiest way to disprove an absolute is to show an exception. Find a bodybuilder with hair, and you have a quick and easy "No" to his question.

I agree its not that simple, and obviously clinical data is the only way to give an accurate answer. We have none. The question could have also been "Does driving a car cause hair loss", and in light of the lack of clinical data there as well, we'd have to look at people who drive cars and make an assessment, and a hypothesis.

So its really a combination of how he worded his question, and the fact that there is no direct clinical data. We must view his question as an absolute, bcause thats how he posed it, and we must look at those who work out, to give him his answer.

Its not a perfect answer, but you get the idea.

This thread is causing hair loss for me though.

HairLossTalk.com
 
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What is interesing about the following is that my cholesterol levels improved markedly after starting to take my 5 GMS of creatine daily. I cannot prove that this is the cause of the change, but it is an interesting result!

Christian Finn's Research Update
http://thefactsaboutfitness.com/

Issue 132 | July 7, 2003

This research update is sent to people all over the world who
want better results faster from their exercise and nutrition
programs. If you ever want to be removed from the list, simply
click the link at the bottom of this e-mail.

-----------------
TABLE OF CONTENTS
-----------------

1. RESEARCH UPDATE: Creatine
2. MEMBERS-ONLY AREA: What's New?
3. SPONSOR #1: Muscle Building Nutrition
4. RELATED RESEARCH: Supplements
5. SPONSOR #2: Diet Supplements Revealed

----------------------------
1. RESEARCH UPDATE: Creatine
----------------------------

Creatine side effects you probably won't read about...

Creatine has established itself as one of the most effective and
popular supplements available for people wanting to build muscle
and improve performance. However, there are concerns that
creatine is unsafe. Are the stories about creatine side effects
that often appear in the popular press based on fact or fiction?

One of the main reasons creatine has become so popular is that it
accelerates gains in muscle size and strength compared to
exercise alone. In a 12-week trial by Jeff Volek and a
research team from Pennsylvania State University, creatine users
ended up stronger in both the squat and bench press compared with
subjects using a "dummy" supplement. They also gained twice as
much muscle.

There are claims that creatine users are more susceptible to
cramps, muscle spasms, and even pulled muscles. However, in a
three-year study designed to find out whether these creatine side
effects really do exist, creatine had no effect on the incidence
of injury or cramping in college American footballers.

Research published in the journal Medicine and Science in Sports
and Exercise shows similar results. In a group of 26 athletes
using creatine for up to four years, there was no difference in
the reported incidence of muscle cramp or injury compared with
athletes not using creatine.

When I started using creatine in 1996, I can still remember one
occasion when I suffered from extremely painful muscle cramps.
After teaching a 45-minute exercise class in a hot and humid
swimming pool hall, the first thing I should have done was get
something to drink. But I didn't. Instead, I went straight into
the office and sat down to read a newspaper.

Suddenly, the back of my left thigh started to cramp up. So, I
straightened my leg to try and ease the pain. Then, the front of
my thigh started to cramp as well. I didn't know what to do. I
couldn't bend or straighten my leg ? so I just sat there hoping
the pain would go away.

Of course, I have no idea whether or not creatine contributed to
the problem. Scientists aren't really sure what causes cramp in
the first place. But up until then, I'd never experienced such
painful cramps in the front and back of my thigh at the same
time. Now, I always make sure to carry a bottle of water with me
when I go to the gym.

Most people aren't aware that creatine has protective effects in
heart, muscle and neurological diseases. In fact, several months
of creatine supplementation in men and women with borderline high
cholesterol levels reduces very-low-density lipoprotein levels
(the so-called "bad" cholesterol) by almost one-third.

Similar findings are reported in the journal Metabolism.
Twenty-eight days of creatine supplementation and resistance
exercise lowered total cholesterol levels to a greater extent
than resistance exercise alone.

There are isolated case reports of individuals suffering from
kidney problems after using creatine. What's more, an absence
of evidence is not evidence of absence. The fact that large
trials have yet to link the use of creatine with adverse effects
doesn't mean that none exist.

However, carefully controlled studies over the short- (five
days), medium- (nine weeks) and long-term (up to five years) have
yet to demonstrate that creatine supplementation has any adverse
effects on blood pressure, kidney or liver function in healthy
individuals. People with existing liver or kidney
problems, or those predisposed to such ailments, should seek
medical advice before using creatine.
 

chromedomefear

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Has anyone actually tried one of these muscle growth enhancers (anti-andro/testosterone)? Or heard of anyone having an increase in hair loss from some anabolic supplement or prohormone? Some of these products contain an anti-androgen that inhibits the conversion of the additional testosterone. Anyone have any info? If your taking propecia, how much testosterone can it handle?
 

Olorin

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The only thing prohormones will increase is the amount of debt next to yoruname.
 
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..

if i decide to take steroids(not that its a real possibility :lol: just curious)

will i get buff and cut up automatically without having to strenuously work out every other day?

Afro Thunder
 

Olorin

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steroids are not a magic bullet. you have to work your *** off just as hard to get results. Training and diet is what you need, not steroids. When you've hit your genetic peak and you for some reason need to take your body further, THEN you can consider going the chemical route. Get informed, learn as much as you can, and most importantly, get your training and your diet solid. If youmust know more about steroids go here, http://www.elitefitness.com/home/ though for your sake do not ask these guys where to get steroids or any questions like that. SPend at least a week reading through old threads. YOu think we're sarcastic and mean HERE... heh... go aska newbie question on that board. :freaked2:
 

VoRteX

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Olorin,

So you think prohormones dont do anything? Is this personal ?cuz I'm I'm considering trying them. I havent even come close to my "genetic peak" but i've been working out pretty hard for several months and wanted to try something mild to get an extra boost. I researched steroids and decided they were too potent for my current goals and then started researching prohormones. The only one that sounded safe to me was Nordiol, the precursor to Nandrolone. Supposedly the strongest anabolic without androgenic side effects that does not convert to DHT or Estrogen. That 6-oxo stuff looked like something neat to try by itself although I know its only supposed to be post cycle. I did a lot of research and supposedly if you take high enough oral dose or do transdermal, prohormones can give you a mild "steroid like" boost. I ordered some 19-Nordial ethyl something or other from bodybuilding.com. Did i get ripped? lol. I thought I'd try it. Supposedly its bound so more of it gets passed ur liver or something. should I try it or send it back

Thanks in advance
 
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vortex72--> said:
Olorin,

So you think prohormones dont do anything? Is this personal ?cuz I'm I'm considering trying them. I havent even come close to my "genetic peak" but i've been working out pretty hard for several months and wanted to try something mild to get an extra boost. I researched steroids and decided they were too potent for my current goals and then started researching prohormones. The only one that sounded safe to me was Nordiol, the precursor to Nandrolone. Supposedly the strongest anabolic without androgenic side effects that does not convert to DHT or Estrogen. That 6-oxo stuff looked like something neat to try by itself although I know its only supposed to be post cycle. I did a lot of research and supposedly if you take high enough oral dose or do transdermal, prohormones can give you a mild "steroid like" boost. I ordered some 19-Nordial ethyl something or other from bodybuilding.com. Did i get ripped? lol. I thought I'd try it. Supposedly its bound so more of it gets passed ur liver or something. should I try it or send it back

Thanks in advance

For what it is worth, I tried a number of prohormones over time and did not see any changes worth noting. Creatine, that is another story.

What I did see that worked was interval training, ie wind sprints. They are tough, but shed fat and build definition big time.

That plus diligent weight training, low carb food intake etc. should get you where you want to go!

Good luck :lol:
 

chromedomefear

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Wind sprints condition your body and rip you up fast. They need to be done after a workout to burn more fat though. Running, jogging, or any other cardio before working out, unless it's to warm up, is counter-productive to gaining mass and getting ripped. Glutamine is burned up first, and then fat, so workout first using your glut, then do 40 and 100 yard sprints or whatever to burn and rip. Lots of proteins all day, low carbs in the evening, and as many colorful veggies you can fit in your stomach through out the day.

So back to my question. Has anyone used any of these non-converting anabolics, or know if they truly do not affect the spoils of the hair losing male?
 

Olorin

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They're a scam. There are side effects to anything that raises testosterone levels and anyone that tells you differently is lying. Unfortunately, prohormones seem to raise levels just enough to give you gyno and aggravate male pattern baldness. You're much better off working yuor *** off like Bruce said. There are no substitutes to steroids and likely enver will be :p and if ther ever is, it'll just be a new fancy steroid :D
 
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RalphyWiggum said:
First of all, I have missed a lot I can see.

Second, He doesn't need to "cite" any papers to show that elevated levels of free radicals are harmful to one's health. That's medical dogma. Oxidation causes free radicals to exist. Yes, without a certain amount of free radicals we would inevitably die, but too many can damage cells.

Third, I think we can all agree here that marathon runners are NOT the healthiest individuals. Too much of anything can be a bad thing.

Fourth, I know bruce wasn't saying aerobic exercise causes disease. I think what he is asserting is all things in moderation and just like in hair loss treatment variation is the key to success.

{smartass}Yes, you have missed a lot.

And I appreciate you telling me that I don't have to "cite" any papers, that was BruceLee's challenge, not mine, echoed only in BruceLee's own words, "simply cite them or shut up." But like you said, you didn't bother to read it.

Matter of fact, the entire point of my objection was lost in your response and the subsequent responses of others trying to defend BruceLee without even bothering to understand what we were talking about. Me and HairlossTalk and BruceLee all understood and made our points and moved on. I am not going to beat that dead horse anymore, like HairlossTalk put it, this thread is also causing me hairloss :D

But since you have a basic enough understanding of free radicals that you can personally make a proper determination of when free radical production is a risk to health without any statistical causal relationship data then I guess you already know....that....most of those anti-oxidant vitamins and medicines you take....................are free radicals :)

Maybe not, but I'm sure you'll look it up and know before you respond. Like I said, me and BruceLee finished our discussion and if you would like to discuss free radicals I'm sure you can start another thread and explain it to everybody. ;)

Remember, taking anti-oxidants increases free radiacals just like exercise does, just like exercise increases testosterone, just like sex results in testosterone fluctuations, and just like eating vegatables increases blood cyanide levels. {/smartass} :lol:

BTW I appologized to BruceLee for things getting a little heated lest anybody think I have a problem with him (since I'm new). I have learned a lot from him and developed respect for him in the short time I have been here so that is not the case.
 
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..

im getting a lil worried...after i worked out today(my second day of working out fyi)...i took a shower n noticed 10 dark hairs in my hands(could be more that i didn't see) while i was shampooing with nizoral....usually i don't see this many hairs so i am thinking it has to do something with me working out...do u guys think im just paranoid or is there a definite link??

Afro Thunder :(
 
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Re: ..

afro21 said:
im getting a lil worried...after i worked out today(my second day of working out fyi)...i took a shower n noticed 10 dark hairs in my hands(could be more that i didn't see) while i was shampooing with nizoral....usually i don't see this many hairs so i am thinking it has to do something with me working out...do u guys think im just paranoid or is there a definite link??

Afro Thunder :(

I vote paranoid.

PS-Been working out for around 40 yrs. Have plenty of hair left.

:freaked2:
 
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