Is Testosterone More Harmful Than Dht On The Frontal Scalp And Hairline?

Ganked By DHT

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It would be interesting to see what the hair loss effects of T supplementation on Native American hair might be. Perhaps it's a threshold issue and at some levels effects would be noticed. I assume they don't suffer from acne among N.I.'s either.
If you mean TRT, then I dont think it would affect them visibly, a lot of people doing TRT dont lose more hair on it afaik. Depends how much you give them. I dont think they suffer acne really.
 

JaneyElizabeth

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If you mean TRT, then I dont think it would affect them visibly, a lot of people doing TRT dont lose more hair on it afaik. Depends how much you give them. I dont think they suffer acne really.
I think that a considerable number of FtM's experience hair loss but then again, they might be taking extremely large amounts. I was only trying to highlight the differences in secondary sexual characteristics. Many adult cis-females who are white will develop some level of beard growth if supplemented with testosterone. Now, would the same thing happen to an Inuit woman? Would there be differences between an Inuit man and woman supplemented with T? I am not sure of the answer.
 

Ganked By DHT

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I think that a considerable number of FtM's experience hair loss but then again, they might be taking extremely large amounts. I was only trying to highlight the differences in secondary sexual characteristics. Many adult cis-females who are white will develop some level of beard growth if supplemented with testosterone. Now, would the same thing happen to an Inuit woman? Would there be differences between an Inuit man and woman supplemented with T? I am not sure of the answer.
Yeah interesting I dont know. Maybe also body reacts differently to exogenous T supplement than to its natural secretion.
 

Norwoody

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Yeah interesting I dont know. Maybe also body reacts differently to exogenous T supplement than to its natural secretion.
That sounds about right. There is a thread called something along the lines of 'oral steroid grew my hair back thicker' and a user reported hair growth on an anabolic steroid known as oxandrolone which basically competes with DHT, but once it binds to AR the theory is that it does not express the baldness part (or something like that). This is because some synthetic steroids are less androgenic and more anabolic than testosterone.
 

Ganked By DHT

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That sounds about right. There is a thread called something along the lines of 'oral steroid grew my hair back thicker' and a user reported hair growth on an anabolic steroid known as oxandrolone which basically competes with DHT, but once it binds to AR the theory is that it does not express the baldness part (or something like that). This is because some synthetic steroids are less androgenic and more anabolic than testosterone.
Yes you can introduce some other steroidal hormone to compete for AR receptor. But it is kind of like playing the sound of nails on a chalkboard at max volume to drown out the sound of a knife on a bottle. There is meant to be nonsteroidal silent antagonists like Flutamide but people report they dont work strongly enough or something.
 

JaneyElizabeth

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Yes you can introduce some other steroidal hormone to compete for AR receptor. But it is kind of like playing the sound of nails on a chalkboard at max volume to drown out the sound of a knife on a bottle. There is meant to be nonsteroidal silent antagonists like Flutamide but people report they dont work strongly enough or something.
Yeah. That whole process to me resembles Whack-a-mole where we try to change one thing and maybe get partial results but then we have fall-out in other areas to deal with. Using estriol to avoid breast growth theoretically might work in some certain scenario but for most guys, it's probably not a viable-hair regrowth path.
 

Armando Jose

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Regarding common hair loss I like read ancient information, but this paper (Arch Dermatol. 1975) is really obsolete in hormone issue due hormones (including T and DHT) are made inside plosebaceous unit,
 

DogoDiLaurentiis

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This is all much more complicated in terms of endocrine activity than we want to acknowledge and changes to one aspect, say to beards, might throw off other aspects. Some have alleged a link between minoxidil usage for beards and hair loss on top subsequently.

I continue to note that virtually no one in the field anywhere deals with the issue of hair quality as opposed to mere hair count and coverage.

Why do we have meds that are said to "improve" hair loss but none touted to improve "hair appearance?" Look at the recountings by guys on tressless just starting finasteride/min and none of them mention that "my hair looks much nicer and is much more manageable". It's only dealt with in terms of the appearance or not of new terminal hair.

I see many guys with ugly comb-overs who have overall pretty decent coverage but terrible looking hair that has very little to do with juvenile hair in terms of looks and appearance. Transplants might indeed move permanently viable, ugly, crappy hair from the sides to the front but to what effect?

To me, this quest has to ultimately be about improving both looks and health, otherwise, it is likely to be dispiriting and defeating. Balding folks need to comfort themselves more by noticing how many ugly men out there there are with "full" heads of hair that look like absolute crap.

What's the deal with this guy: View attachment 155983

Stress and COVID-19

COVID MAKES YOUR HAIR FALL OUT.

I'm pretty sure I had the coof and I noticed a marked increase in hair loss around that time, thankfully however I recovered and I was able to stave off any further serious hair loss and even recover, Boris did not, probably because the stress of his job combined with getting the coof basically did his hair in.
 

bluecyclone

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I got a hair transplant recently that brought me back to NW1, but I'm diffused all over the NW6 area and I'm on TRT to recover from the damages done by finasteride. So I'm gonna start now with a stack of topical CB+CPA+estrogens+progesterone+adenosine and some other ancillaries.
I will report in a couple of months what's the outcome. Next to add would be a home made mesotherapy with dutasteride, but one thing at a time.
@Canuto any source for that combination?
 

Ziggyz123

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I’ve been on dutasteride for about 6 years.. it wasn’t until I bought the powder and took it at 2.5mg that something changed in my hair.. and that change wasn’t stable, just better than .5mg. My hairline was the problem and why I got on AA’s originally and my hair is way worse than baseline.. inflammation never went down either. I recently went down again to .5mg and I’m shedding over 100 hairs just showering and shaking my head over the sink. The sides I got on 2.5mg were awful.. brain fog was insane, sex drive and quality of erections got really bad..

Wish there was another way
 

JaneyElizabeth

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I’ve been on dutasteride for about 6 years.. it wasn’t until I bought the powder and took it at 2.5mg that something changed in my hair.. and that change wasn’t stable, just better than .5mg. My hairline was the problem and why I got on AA’s originally and my hair is way worse than baseline.. inflammation never went down either. I recently went down again to .5mg and I’m shedding over 100 hairs just showering and shaking my head over the sink. The sides I got on 2.5mg were awful.. brain fog was insane, sex drive and quality of erections got really bad..

Wish there was another wayhin
Keto and Selsyn Blue for inflammation plus use as much duta as you think you need.
 

DogoDiLaurentiis

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I’ve been on dutasteride for about 6 years.. it wasn’t until I bought the powder and took it at 2.5mg that something changed in my hair.. and that change wasn’t stable, just better than .5mg. My hairline was the problem and why I got on AA’s originally and my hair is way worse than baseline.. inflammation never went down either. I recently went down again to .5mg and I’m shedding over 100 hairs just showering and shaking my head over the sink. The sides I got on 2.5mg were awful.. brain fog was insane, sex drive and quality of erections got really bad..

Wish there was another way

I'm back because I just can't seem to get away from this place, but I promise I will as things get more busy for me be around less until I have something significant to report.

You need corticosteroids and estrogen my friend.

Up until recently I was having rather serious problems with oily skin and scalp and even hairline acne, which is really really strange for somebody at 40 years old.

I found out I was taking a few things that have been interfering with my estrogen levels, one of which being magnesium, which increases excretion of estrogen.

There are still some other things that I need to resolve, but very recently I acquired some 17B estradiol gel, and I've been applying that to my scalp in a dilute solution with cetirizine and within days I wake up, my hair isn't a disgusting greasy mess, nor is my forehead, my nose which I had to pay extra care to make sure it did not get clogged with dirt and sebum is not a problem any more.

It's not a matter of is DHT or test worse, it's a matter of how effectively are you keeping both of them in balance in relation to estrogen.

When you have skin inflammation and acne and oily skin, that's your body's way of telling you that you have too much of a given hormone which is causing you problems, basically your body cannot handle that concentration of that hormone, it's too much for you. This could be a number of things not just test or DHT, it can also be insulin and DHEA. A lot of really insecure, retarded men will respond defensively to something like this "how could he say I'm not manly enough to handle a normal load of testosterone, or even higher levels".

To that I say, shut the f*** up, be a man, the one contribution and quintessential attribute of being a "man" historically is about looking at things in a way where you have to make difficult decisions and put aside certain illusions. So you're not f*****g Dan Bilzerian, grow the f*** up and accept that you can either have hair or you can have stupidly high testosterone and be a "macho man".

As long as you have oily, inflamed skin, your hair is not making any substantial gains, you must hormonally stop the cause of it, period. And if that means you apply estrogen, by god you will do it or enjoy having to pony up 25-30k for a f*****g hair transplant.

Some men who I believe are fundamentally androgen insensitive can tolerate way more testosterone and androgens than most normal people but they unless they are true freaks of nature also don't get the same benefits of testosterone.

I like to cite the example of bodybuilder Rich Piana, who took assloads of androgenic compounds and never lost his hair, but also admitted that what normal people would take to get gains, he got virtually nothing from. He went so far as to get PMMA injections into his arms (a permanent kind of synthol) to enhance areas of his body he thought weren't accentuated enough through exercise and the exceptionally high amounts of androgenic steroids he was using.

It wasn't until he started blasting GH and IGF-1 that his hair started falling out. So that gives you an idea of how hairloss works from a hormonal perspective, most men who don't lose their hair either have more estrogen on average or are androgen insensitive in general.

I do gain some level of sadistic pleasure from this, because I've been kind of harassed my whole life by "manly men" who criticized me (imo in jealousy in retrospect) for being "too pretty". I don't have a massive build but I'm not effeminate either, just... I've looked 16-17 until I was about 24 years old, slightly taller than average lean muscular body, but I didn't have coarse features. I couldn't grow a proper beard or moustache until I was past age 30.

Well, the motherfucking chickens have come home to roost, the cult of testosterone is having its day of reckoning. No amount of finasteride or dutasteride will save you if your estrogen is not high enough.

- Estrogen is anti-inflammatory

- Estrogen increases cellular hydration

- Estrogen decreases sebum production

- Estrogen softens your skin and makes it a better environment for your hair to grow

Watching men increase their dosage of antiandrogens is like watching a moth smash itself repeatedly to death against a hot lightbulb with the absence of necessary estrogen to fill the void.

If you want to be a "manly man(tm)" and have a full head of hair, and you're androgen sensitive, save up for a hair transplant.

Otherwise you're hacking your biochemistry to emulate a period of time in your youth when your estrogen to testosterone to dht levels were much different. That's how it works, reversing hairloss for androgen sensitive men is going through a hormonal time machine and the proper treatment for it is learning the appropriate time code to where you wish to go.

so TL/DR

You need to increase your estrogen and lower inflammation with some topical corticosteroids or enjoy getting nowhere with your hair.

Also, you may need to use minoxidil to offset PGD2, there is limited yet conflicting information that tretinoin does inhibit PGD2 synthase.

Also please be aware that if you already have standing issues with scalp inflammation that using any scalp lotion with propylene glycol is probably going to do more harm than good, thus if you use minoxidil you will probably have to use a formulation that does not contain that compound.
 
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Ganked By DHT

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I don't think treatments like dutasteride would work well for me, because I am still norwood 1.5 and I just need to treat my temples. Seemingly 5ar inhibitors are not enough for saving temples, I think I need more estrogenic activity.
 

DogoDiLaurentiis

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I don't think treatments like dutasteride would work well for me, because I am still norwood 1.5 and I just need to treat my temples. Seemingly 5ar inhibitors are not enough for saving temples, I think I need more estrogenic activity.

I put estrogel directly along my hairline and around the temple area, the dilute solution goes everywhere else, I will try at the vertex if I feel I'm not getting enough density.
 

Ganked By DHT

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I put estrogel directly along my hairline and around the temple area, the dilute solution goes everywhere else, I will try at the vertex if I feel I'm not getting enough density.
Yeah, also since I only need to cover a really small area, I dont need to use as much hopefully as higher norwood. It'll be a good experiment at least.
 

DogoDiLaurentiis

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My scalp already feels f*****g amazing using topical estrogen + betamethasone, no angry irritation, no acne, no excessive oil, it feels good, my hair and scalp have not felt this good in a long time.

It is having the exact effects that I thought it would.
 

JaneyElizabeth

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I'm back because I just can't seem to get away from this place, but I promise I will as things get more busy for me be around less until I have something significant to report.

You need corticosteroids and estrogen my friend.

Up until recently I was having rather serious problems with oily skin and scalp and even hairline acne, which is really really strange for somebody at 40 years old.

I found out I was taking a few things that have been interfering with my estrogen levels, one of which being magnesium, which increases excretion of estrogen.

There are still some other things that I need to resolve, but very recently I acquired some 17B estradiol gel, and I've been applying that to my scalp in a dilute solution with cetirizine and within days I wake up, my hair isn't a disgusting greasy mess, nor is my forehead, my nose which I had to pay extra care to make sure it did not get clogged with dirt and sebum is not a problem any more.

It's not a matter of is DHT or test worse, it's a matter of how effectively are you keeping both of them in balance in relation to estrogen.

When you have skin inflammation and acne and oily skin, that's your body's way of telling you that you have too much of a given hormone which is causing you problems, basically your body cannot handle that concentration of that hormone, it's too much for you. This could be a number of things not just test or DHT, it can also be insulin and DHEA. A lot of really insecure, retarded men will respond defensively to something like this "how could he say I'm not manly enough to handle a normal load of testosterone, or even higher levels".

To that I say, shut the f*** up, be a man, the one contribution and quintessential attribute of being a "man" historically is about looking at things in a way where you have to make difficult decisions and put aside certain illusions. So you're not f*****g Dan Bilzerian, grow the f*** up and accept that you can either have hair or you can have stupidly high testosterone and be a "macho man".

As long as you have oily, inflamed skin, your hair is not making any substantial gains, you must hormonally stop the cause of it, period. And if that means you apply estrogen, by god you will do it or enjoy having to pony up 25-30k for a f*****g hair transplant.

Some men who I believe are fundamentally androgen insensitive can tolerate way more testosterone and androgens than most normal people but they unless they are true freaks of nature also don't get the same benefits of testosterone.

I like to cite the example of bodybuilder Rich Piana, who took assloads of androgenic compounds and never lost his hair, but also admitted that what normal people would take to get gains, he got virtually nothing from. He went so far as to get PMMA injections into his arms (a permanent kind of synthol) to enhance areas of his body he thought weren't accentuated enough through exercise and the exceptionally high amounts of androgenic steroids he was using.

It wasn't until he started blasting GH and IGF-1 that his hair started falling out. So that gives you an idea of how hairloss works from a hormonal perspective, most men who don't lose their hair either have more estrogen on average or are androgen insensitive in general.

I do gain some level of sadistic pleasure from this, because I've been kind of harassed my whole life by "manly men" who criticized me (imo in jealousy in retrospect) for being "too pretty". I don't have a massive build but I'm not effeminate either, just... I've looked 16-17 until I was about 24 years old, slightly taller than average lean muscular body, but I didn't have coarse features. I couldn't grow a proper beard or moustache until I was past age 30.

Well, the motherfucking chickens have come home to roost, the cult of testosterone is having its day of reckoning. No amount of finasteride or dutasteride will save you if your estrogen is not high enough.

- Estrogen is anti-inflammatory

- Estrogen increases cellular hydration

- Estrogen decreases sebum production

- Estrogen softens your skin and makes it a better environment for your hair to grow

Watching men increase their dosage of antiandrogens is like watching a moth smash itself repeatedly to death against a hot lightbulb with the absence of necessary estrogen to fill the void.

If you want to be a "manly man(tm)" and have a full head of hair, and you're androgen sensitive, save up for a hair transplant.

Otherwise you're hacking your biochemistry to emulate a period of time in your youth when your estrogen to testosterone to dht levels were much different. That's how it works, reversing hairloss for androgen sensitive men is going through a hormonal time machine and the proper treatment for it is learning the appropriate time code to where you wish to go.

so TL/DR

You need to increase your estrogen and lower inflammation with some topical corticosteroids or enjoy getting nowhere with your hair.

Also, you may need to use minoxidil to offset PGD2, there is limited yet conflicting information that tretinoin does inhibit PGD2 synthase.

Also please be aware that if you already have standing issues with scalp inflammation that using any scalp lotion with propylene glycol is probably going to do more harm than good, thus if you use minoxidil you will probably have to use a formulation that does not contain that compound.
We aren't looking for you to leave so don't apologize for being around. You offer a unique viewpoint.
 

Ziggyz123

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Yeah... I’m not using estrogen lol. When I was on 2.5mg Dutasteride, it triggered gyno for me.. and I still lost hair. I workout and Dutasteride does seem to interfere with that at my higher dosage. The gyno issue just ruins you aesthetically and I put on a lot of stomach fat from it too.
More power to you if you can fathom bordering a female hormone profile. I’m just not going to be able to accept that especially when I have sexual sides still from only dutasteride. Anything else would just ruin me
 
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