Von Mises stress model “With half opposite force rear” (image scaled 35%) vs. scalp overview of a typical baldness pattern vs. anastomotic network of the scalp arteries. Horizontal lines are added to section up into zones which are used for model validation. Circles indicate areas with scalp arteries with potential poor flow capacity based on the image of the anastomotic network of the scalp arteries, and these circles are overlaid the Von Mises stress model and the real example.
Involvement Of Mechanical Stress In Androgenetic Alopecia | Von Mises 2d Analysis Models
- Thread starter VonMises
- Start date
Yes, I think so. Higher levels of DHT and PGD2. According to Rob's article, referenced earlier in this thread, restricted blood flow and higher concentrations of these bio-markers are an inflammatory response to mechanical stress.
https://www.medical-hypotheses.com/article/S0306-9877(17)31041-1/fulltext
In an accompanying article Rob points out that estrogen and testosterone remodel skull and muscle tissue. He argues that it is this remodeling that explains hair-regrowth among male to female transexuals. Not the androgen hypothesis.
https://perfecthairhealth.com/trans-hormone-replacement-therapy-hair-regrowth/
On the surface it makes sense. Some studies suggest the onset of testosterone results in broadening of the jaw and the zygomatic arch among men. Muscles, inc. the temporalis muscle, bridge over the zygomatic arch and scalp.
http://www.larspenke.eu/pdfs/Lefevre_Lewis_Perrett_Penke_in_press_-_fWHR_and_reactive_T.pdf
* Some researchers have a different view.
An illustration of this is female athletes and bodybuilders who ingest steroids and go onto exhibit the famous square jaw. Botox and the Scalp Relaxer contraption appear to relieve this mechanical tension and restore bloodflow.
One issue that confused me in Rob's theory is hair-loss among men in their 30's. As Rob acknowledged, testosterone levels fall in men at this age. So it's surprising and illogical men would then begin to lose hair at this age and beyond.
I'm by no means an expert. Rob's article is worth a read.
- Reaction score
- 1,132
Rob's theory seems flawed.
A Validated Age-Related Normative Model for Male Total Testosterone Shows Increasing Variance but No Decline after Age 40 Years
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4190174/
20's and 30's are supposed to be our highest levels
Thanks for the link. It's a long time since I've read Rob's article(s) in detail. I'll read your article later. Here's the passage in which Rob acknowledges testosterone levels fall in older males:
'If Androgenetic Alopecia-prone hair follicles are genetically programmed to sensitize to and miniaturize in the presence of DHT, then why doesn’t complete DHT attenuation lead to complete Androgenetic Alopecia recovery? If Androgenetic Alopecia incidence increases with age, why is Androgenetic Alopecia more common in elderly persons with relatively lower androgen production '
I think the central thrust of his argument was a new model for AA over the traditional Androgen Hypothesis. The caveat I added relates to men in their mid 30's onwards when the supposed 'Andropause' begins to kick in.
I think his model holds up. Your citation may throw fresh light on the issue for older men though.
Last edited:
- Reaction score
- 975
This is the key
The important androgens for hair are made inside pillosebaceous unit, androgens in blood have a minimal impact on them.
- Reaction score
- 1,132
My guess is that androgen sensitivity increase with age, and therefore inflammation and scalp mechanical stress result of it
- Reaction score
- 975
and androgen sensitive increasing with time have a special pattern, initially in the front line and the crown and after all upper area without touch sides..... why?
- Reaction score
- 1,132
Genetics ? Increase of androgens receptors and numbers due to the limited amount of androgen they now receive ?
The real question is, is mechanical stress a cause or a result of this ? Most likely a result
infinitepain
Experienced Member
- Reaction score
- 357
This seems a bit far fetched. There are typically very estrogenic guys out there (like Justin Bieber) that are thinning... he basically has the same skull configuration as that one on that picture, with 0 beard genetics as well.
Did anyone find the Scalp Relaxer device used in the japanese study? Im willing to test that myself.
Interesting. So you are saying we should focus %100 on the topical route? Thoughts on using a dermaroller daily to increase absorption of topicals? Overkill or not? User Somebody had massive results, but he is a great responder to 0.5mg of oral finasteride... worst case scenario, his daily dermarolling routine doesn't seem to be making him lose hair. He does it superficially tho, doesn't go deep with the needles. Some say you must go deep to benefit from the growth factors, maybe both approaches are the correct way to go.
Are you they guy that had some sort of theory regarding pillow pressure? what about that?
- Reaction score
- 975
genetics..... always genetics..... more when we dont know the answer
infinitepain
Experienced Member
- Reaction score
- 357
infinitepain
Experienced Member
- Reaction score
- 357
This is a very cheap workaround. We ideally want that device, so it perfectly fits and does the counter-pressure we need.
infinitepain
Experienced Member
- Reaction score
- 357
This is shocking. Goes against the common thing we hear on the forums all day "do this or that to increase blood flow". Now decreasing blood flow is good? im going insane.
Is Rob's theory far fetched? To me it's more solid than the Androgen Hypothesis.
I don't know how we'd verify your statement on Bieber. I think craniofacial growth is a likely mediator of scalp tension.
We'd need to measure his zygomatic arch and jaw line according to the references I drew up. Even then, Rob may argue that androgens have remodeled other muscles in the scalp.
One muscle that likely has a strong role to play in hair loss is the occipitofrontalis. It's a muscle researchers are still learning more about. It originates at the eye brow and underlies the superficial fascia. This muscle then re-emerges under the crown.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0007122605000238
The mechanical tension theory explains why STR device and botox work. This is, in part, what Segura suggested in his 2015 paper. Again, I'll paraphrase key quotes and add the references below:
http://www.ijtrichology.com/article...;spage=95;epage=99;aulast=Tellez-Segura#ref23
'The aim of the present study was to analyze the correlation between stress distribution in the galea and clinical progression of male pattern baldness in order to know whether mechanical stress is involved in Androgenetic Alopecia phenomenon.'
'Conclusions: All these data suggest that mechanical stress determines Androgenetic Alopecia patterning and a stretch-induced and androgen-mediated mechanotransduction in dermal papilla cells could be the primary mechanism in Androgenetic Alopecia pathogenesis.'
'The result of this analysis indicates a constant linear dependence between elastic deformation of scalp and Androgenetic Alopecia patterning, which clearly identifies mechanical stress as an active factor in Androgenetic Alopecia.
The involuntary tonic contraction of occipitofrontalis muscle is related to psychological stress conditions, facial expression, the maintenance of visual field, and an aponeurotic tension model of human craniofacial growth'
Again, I'm no expert. I may have mis-interpreted some of the material I posted above. That said, it's a shame posts on mechanical tension and the galea don't receive as much attention as Brotzu and DHT.
Rather than group buys on underground lotions we may be able to test the galea theory against Finite Element Analysis, STR, Botox, Doppler Flowmetry and ultimately hair-counts.
Last edited:
- Reaction score
- 520
If this is correct then I am convinced the excessive long distance running I used to do accelerated my hair loss. Particularly when I ran during the winter, I used to feel tension through muscles around my skull I didn’t know I had. Quite difficult to explain, but it was almost like my eyebrows were being pulled up and my forehead contorted.
I experience a similar phenomenon in my forehead when I am aggravated, so mechanical stress as a factor in Androgenetic Alopecia is very interesting to me.
infinitepain
Experienced Member
- Reaction score
- 357
We have stories here in the forum of massive regrowth on finasteride, minoxidil and dermarolling. We don't have stories of massive regrowth with any of these, or best case scenario, stop the hairloss. I ask again: Where do you buy the STR device? it's the only realistic treatment, botox is too expensive. If people have researched this, why the hell is no one testing the STR device out? I will do it myself, just let us know where to buy it.
Also, where does this fit within your theory?
Why is hair growing with cut of bloodflow, if not because said blow contains androgens?
Would moving your ears back be a positive exercise to do? I can feel how my hairline goes up a bit when I do that, so i guess its acting against the forces described therein.
Last edited:
the smoking baby
Established Member
- Reaction score
- 57
We don't have stories. We have studies:
'The result of this analysis indicates a constant linear dependence between elastic deformation of scalp and Androgenetic Alopecia patterning, which clearly identifies mechanical stress as an active factor in Androgenetic Alopecia'. -- Segura.
We have studies that illustrate reducing mechanical tension promotes hair-growth. These studies are the STR device and botox. To our knowledge neither of these methods target DHT. They do lend weight to the mechanical tension theory.
I think I understand the point you're making though; How do Finasteride and Minoxidil work in the context of the mechanical tension model? Rob outlines this in his study and the comments section on his site:
https://www.medical-hypotheses.com/article/S0306-9877(17)31041-1/fulltext
I'll summarize to the best of my understanding. Minoxidil stimulates blood flow. That will promote hair-growth in areas not affected by fibrosis and calcification. Inhibiting DHT via Finasteride and Dutasteride induces muscular atrophy and loosens the scalp.
Finally, how do we find the STR device? I can't find it online.
You can partially re-create this device by resting your elbows on a table, placing the palm of your hands above your ears and lifting. Some times we like a shiny object, like machines over free-weights, to do the work for us but this would work too.
EDIT: Good find Smoking Baby
485 Euros though?
Last edited:
infinitepain
Experienced Member
- Reaction score
- 357
We don't have stories. We have studies:
'The result of this analysis indicates a constant linear dependence between elastic deformation of scalp and Androgenetic Alopecia patterning, which clearly identifies mechanical stress as an active factor in Androgenetic Alopecia'. -- Segura.
We have studies that illustrate reducing mechanical tension promotes hair-growth. These studies are the STR device and botox. To our knowledge neither of these methods target DHT. They do lend weight to the mechanical tension theory.
I think I understand the point you're making though; How do Finasteride and Minoxidil work in the context of the mechanical tension model? Rob outlines this in his study and the comments section on his site:
https://www.medical-hypotheses.com/article/S0306-9877(17)31041-1/fulltext
I'll summarize to the best of my understanding. Minoxidil stimulates blood flow. That will promote hair-growth in areas not affected by fibrosis and calcification. Inhibiting DHT via Finasteride and Dutasteride induces muscular atrophy and loosens the scalp.
Finally, how do we find the STR device? I can't find it online.
You can partially re-create this device by resting your elbows on a table, placing the palm of your hands above your ears and lifting. Some times we like a shiny object, like machines over free-weights, to do the work for us but this would work too.
EDIT: Good find Smoking Baby
Interesting, but many missing pieces, including how reduction of blood flow (which goes against what you said) grows hair too:
https://www.hairlosscure2020.com/ligature-of-the-arteries-of-the-scalp-to-prevent-further-hair-loss/
Is this simple due reduced DHT due reduced blood flow? but isn't DHT fabricated within follicles as well?
Anyway, you seem to explain everything with scalp tension being the ultimate culprit of hairloss right? So in your model, reducing scalp tension mechanically is the ultimate cure? Im just not sure about that.
What about dermarolling? would puncturing the scalp mitigate this supposed tension? perhaps Von Misses' application could include simmulating the typically 1.5mm holes from a dermaroller in the scalp?
About the device, indeed extremely expensive, but it's a one time investment, all things considered it may be worth it, compared to botox which requires maintainance, it's much more expensive long term. The big problem: That device seems like a huge liability in terms of comfort. There's no way you can be wearing that while sleeping... and ideally we would need 24/7 exposure to that force to counteract the tension which I assume it's inflicted 24/7 as DHT and other tension-generating phenomena is constantly happening. How do we solve this? Botox seem to be the only thing that could give us 24/7 protection, but again, too expensive, and im yet to see results as good as this one:
https://www.hairlosstalk.com/intera...inasteride-results-7-mo-treatment-pics.44087/
Or this one, with only 6 months of finasteride!
https://www.hairlosstalk.com/intera...-with-finasteride-after-6-months-pics.107836/
I will be impressed If I see results like these with the botox and or STR device. But in any case, if someone wants to buy the device and try it out, please let us know. It would be insanely interesting to see what exposure to a couple of hours can do, which is what all we can aim for, since we can't be wearing that thing at work, in public, or in bed, I assume it would need to be used while you are sitting at the computer at home and so on. Also to measure how comfortable the thing is. Please someone that can afford it right now buy it and let us know. Im specially interested to see if it mitigates scalp itch/scalp discomfort of sorts. Do you also think that reducing tension mechanically could help mitigating these? my scalp always feels weird.
Last edited: