Insulin resistance, PCOS, and male pattern baldness

[freakout]

They are as you describe, "pulling the donor to the recipient site."

I don't necessarily describe it as such. I'm not aware EXACTLY how a transplant or a reduction is done.

But the way I see it is this: the donor was pulled and the recipient was thrown away
Technically, it moved to a recipient site. But in reality there never was a recipient unless you consider the boney or "tendous" surface of the galea a "recipient". The galea could not be a recipient because it has no direct permanent connection with the scalp.

what is 'contact inhibition'?

 

[S Foote.]

I would be interested in why you think you would get regrowth in the procedure you describe?

The mice experiment came up as a surprise to the researchers. The original intention was to develop more efficient transplant proceduces if i read it right.

The transplanted follicles are contained in biopsies of the scalp of 28 men 11 women all of which regrew hair which labels them as scalp transplants - not just hair follicles transplants.

When they regrew hair, it suggested that nothing was wrong within the pilosesbaeous units; that by merely removing them from the human scalp and transplanting them elsewhere, the units will regrow hair normally - as if nothing was wrong just days before.

We also know that there are several indications that hair growth characteristics are determine by the recipient site - Donor Dominance Takes a Bow. In this case, a follicle was transplanted.

However, if that were true, the follicles should not have regrown hair several inches on the mice since mice maintain hair length just a few centimeters long. However, it suggested that hair growth characteristics is determine by the pilosebeceous units.

Regardless of the donor or recipient site dominance assertions, the outcome of the mice experiments suggested that the root cause of male pattern baldness is being induced from OUTSIDE the pilosebeceous units.

The association of male pattern baldness with several serious diseases and conditions supports the suggestion that male pattern baldness is being induced from OUTSIDE the pilosebeceous units. It is also obvious that whatever is causing male pattern baldness, it has no effect on the 'horseshoe' area (back and sides of the head).

Therefore, if the hair folicles are capable of fixing themselves, as shown in the mice experiments, transplanting balding scalp to the 'horseshoe' area should allow them to fix themselves as well.

However, only an actual procedure can confirm this.

These are the reasons why I never read any argument or study which tend to focus on the scalp particularly within the pilosebeceous units or the follicles.

There are transplantation experiments that could be done to resolve these questions. But i cannot see many volunteers for the procedure you describe.

I think you may well see regrowth of bald scalp when moved as a flap to the back of the head. In my opinion this would be because of a reduced blood "feed" to the flap due to the procedure. It has been shown that reducing the feed to the scalp significantly improves the follicles. Bryan has a study describing this scalp arterial ligiture procedure.

There have been reports of bald men who have been accidently scalped, regrowing hair after the scalp is sewn back on. Reduced blood feed would reduce the fluid build up around follicles according to my theory.

 

[S Foote.]

They are as you describe, "pulling the donor to the recipient site."

I don't necessarily describe it as such. I'm not aware EXACTLY how a transplant or a reduction is done.

But the way I see it is this: the donor was pulled and the recipient was thrown away
Technically, it moved to a recipient site. But in reality there never was a recipient unless you consider the boney or "tendous" surface of the galea a "recipient". The galea could not be a recipient because it has no direct permanent connection with the scalp.

what is 'contact inhibition'?

Yes, the bald area is cut away and the hairy scalp on the sides of the head is stretched upwards and sewn together to fill in the space. I dont know if the galea is also cut away with the bald area.

Contact inhibition of cell growth is a normal and important restriction on cell multiplication, that all normal cells (including follicle cells) have.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contact_inhibition

 

[freakout]

I think you may well see regrowth of bald scalp when moved as a flap to the back of the head. In my opinion this would be because of a reduced blood "feed" to the flap due to the procedure. It has been shown that reducing the feed to the scalp significantly improves the follicles.

I''ve read this ligature procedure. Effective at about half of patients. Note that this figure is the same sa an independent study done with minoxidil of 52%.

I don't subscribe to the ligature procedure that it restricted blood flow. Ligation will cause a rerouting with the growth of new blood vessels to makeup for the ligature otherwise the scalp will rot and die. There is enough blood flow to supply the the scalp and follicles by the rerouting new blood vessels.

Something else was severed when the ligature procedure was performed. This something was never discussed or brought up in any study I've read.

In fact, two control case studies show limiited blood flow in the general area of the balding scalp have been shown.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2715645
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8628793

 

[freakout]

There have been reports of bald men who have been accidently scalped, regrowing hair after the scalp is sewn back on.

The procedure I'm suggesting does not have to involve 'flaps' but rather small incisions the size of biopsies similar to the ones used in the mice experiment.

I had hope those researchers should have done so since they had the chance with 40 subjects of men and women.

Edited:

Reduced blood feed would reduce the fluid build up around follicles according to my theory.

Fluid build up is a consequence - not a normal occurence, if ever there is such a finding. A reduced blood feed would result in atrophy of affected tissues which may result with fluid built up to replace the atrophied tissues.

 

[balder]

Blood Pressure and Balding

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/08/healt ... 8real.html

In a study published in 2007, for example, researchers looked at 250 men ages 35 to 65. After controlling for age, high cholesterol, smoking and other variables, they found that hypertension was “strongly associatedâ€￾ with male pattern baldness: those with a blood pressure reading above 120 over 80 had twice the risk of the others.

http://www.endocrine-abstracts.org/ea/0 ... 15p143.htm

With the onset of puberty blood pressure increases more in men than in women while boys and girls do not show any gender differences in blood pressure. Androgens are known to play an important role in renal tubular epithelial cell growth, hypertrophy and erythropoetin production and may be important determinants of sex-specific differences in blood pressure. However the exact mechanisms are not clear yet.

 

[S Foote.]

There have been reports of bald men who have been accidently scalped, regrowing hair after the scalp is sewn back on.

The procedure I'm suggesting does not have to involve 'flaps' but rather small incisions the size of biopsies similar to the ones used in the mice experiment.

I had hope those researchers should have done so since they had the chance with 40 subjects of men and women.

Edited:
[quote="S Foote.":isq8apxa]Reduced blood feed would reduce the fluid build up around follicles according to my theory.

Fluid build up is a consequence - not a normal occurence, if ever there is such a finding. A reduced blood feed would result in atrophy of affected tissues which may result with fluid built up to replace the atrophied tissues.[/quote:isq8apxa]

I am not talking about reducing blood feed to the point of tissue atrophy, and the conditions you describe did not happen in the arterial ligiture study i refered to in this thread.

Also i am not talking about what would be described as clinical edema in the male pattern baldness scalp, but all the known markers for increased edema are there. If you study the effects on tissue of edema, it is known that fibrosis and inflammation go along with this.

This is what happens in the male pattern baldness scalp.

 

[S Foote.]

Blood Pressure and Balding

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/08/healt ... 8real.html

In a study published in 2007, for example, researchers looked at 250 men ages 35 to 65. After controlling for age, high cholesterol, smoking and other variables, they found that hypertension was “strongly associatedâ€￾ with male pattern baldness: those with a blood pressure reading above 120 over 80 had twice the risk of the others.

http://www.endocrine-abstracts.org/ea/0 ... 15p143.htm

[quote:35k6rjt9]

With the onset of puberty blood pressure increases more in men than in women while boys and girls do not show any gender differences in blood pressure. Androgens are known to play an important role in renal tubular epithelial cell growth, hypertrophy and erythropoetin production and may be important determinants of sex-specific differences in blood pressure. However the exact mechanisms are not clear yet.

[/quote:35k6rjt9]


Thanks for the link, my theory predicts this correlation as i have said for a long time.

 

[freakout]

S Foote., can you state your theory in a nutshell? Thanks.

 

[S Foote.]

S Foote., can you state your theory in a nutshell? Thanks.

This was an early description of the theory.

http://www.hairsite2.com/library/abst-167.htm

 

[freakout]

This was an early description of the theory.

http://www.hairsite2.com/library/abst-167.htm

Wow, that got my miniscule brain spinning So the theory goes that human evolution contributed to the development of male pattern baldness? ... that male pattern baldness's occurence has little to do with environmental condition within a lifetime?

I know summaries can be confusing and absurd or weird but I'm pretty much aware of that but providing concluding statements, regardless of controversies, is the way to get attention. So I'd really prefer to read it in a nutshell.

 

[S Foote.]

This was an early description of the theory.

http://www.hairsite2.com/library/abst-167.htm

Wow, that got my miniscule brain spinning So the theory goes that human evolution contributed to the development of male pattern baldness? ... that male pattern baldness's occurence has little to do with environmental condition within a lifetime?

I know summaries can be confusing and absurd or weird but I'm pretty much aware of that but providing concluding statements, regardless of controversies, is the way to get attention. So I'd really prefer to read it in a nutshell.

OK, as an engineer, i ask questions based on basic common sense.

The very basic idea was this. The growing anagen follicle has to grow into the dermal tissue, so what would happen if the dermal tissue doesn't want to move out of the way?

The conclusion i reached is described in the "Hydraulic dermal model" part of the link i posted.

Forget about scalp hair for a moment and consider this. If you transpose the hydraulic principle i suggest onto humans, you notice that the one consistant thing about androgens is they grow hair in certain areas of the body. These areas all have higer concentrations of lymph vessels close to the follicles.

The implication of the theory is that androgens are increasing lymph drainage, so reducing the local fluid pressure and increasing hair growth.

The odd and "opposite" effect is that in some people, this action can reduce scalp growth. But there is no direct relationship here as to androgen levels or time period, so there has to be another factor.

I think this factor is the complex blood supply/drainage that evolved to service the enlarging brain in higher primates.


Now i dont think there is any evolved purpose in human scalp hair growth, i think this is just a side effect of other more important developements.

Why all this long scalp hair anyway? This is downright dangerous in terms of survival! You wont see or hear the sabre tooth tiger coming with all this hair over your eyes and ears. Unless by the time we got this growth we were smart enough to know to cut it or tie it back, and i think this is the key.

I think the good circulation and drainage that evolved to grow our brains and make us smart, also increased our scalp hair growth. Higher levels of androgens helped us to breed in a sexually competitive environment. The drainage from the scalp can be reduced in this area by androgen increased drainage elsewhere, simple "plumbing" effect because of the complex head feed/ return systems in humans.

This reduced scalp drainage will not build up fluid unless the feed pressure is high. This is why i think there is a proven relationship with high blood pressure and male pattern baldness.

This is as basic as i can describe the theory, hope it is helpful.

 

[squeegee]

I think we are on something Stephen! Thanks for your reply..way more clearer now.. I think that that the lympatic system has to do with something with male pattern baldness which explain the horsehoe pattern..But I think that ENOS is part of it.. Endothelial Nitric Oxide Synthase regulates microlymphatic Flow via collecting lymphatics..this is why black females are using Castor oil and Miconazole Nitrate to stimulate hair grow. The problem is when Nitric Oxide becomes impaired or uncoupled, problems are happening..= endothelial dysfunction. Clogged lymphatic system, production of Peroxynitrites and free radicals. Also stimulating lymphatic drainage help a lot the people with acne which is linked with androgen problems.

 

[freakout]

OK, as an engineer, i ask questions based on basic common sense.

You're theory tells me you're a mechanical engineer w/ specialty in hydraulics and pipeline networks. Is that right?

I'm into the service, maintainance and troubleshooting of wide-area wireless telecom systems.

...so there has to be another factor.

I think this factor is the complex blood supply/drainage that evolved to service the enlarging brain in higher primates.

There's a suggestion that the drainage system is compromised.
There's also a suggestion that the root cause is not within the pilosebaceous units or follicular units.
It's also a suggestion that human physiology are factors in the predisposition to male pattern baldness.

So there's still the question of 'what's difference between balding men and non-balding men within those parameters?

still working on it ... to be continued.

 

[balder]

Hypertension and aldosterone levels in women with early-onset androgenetic alopecia.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19906217

Abstract
BACKGROUND:

Few studies have analysed the relationship between androgenetic alopecia (Androgenetic Alopecia) in women and cardiovascular disease. There is reported to be an elevated prevalence of hypertension among men with Androgenetic Alopecia, and it has been proposed that both phenomena may be explained by the presence of hyperaldosteronism. However, no data on blood pressure (BP) and aldosterone levels in women with Androgenetic Alopecia have been published to date.

OBJECTIVES:

The objective of this study was to evaluate aldosterone levels and the presence of systolic and diastolic hypertension in women with early-onset Androgenetic Alopecia and in healthy controls.

PATIENTS AND METHODS:

This case-control study included 40 women with Androgenetic Alopecia and 40 healthy controls from the Department of Dermatology of San Cecilio Hospital, Granada, Spain.

RESULTS:

Patients with Androgenetic Alopecia showed significantly higher systolic BP values (139.43 vs. 107.80 mmHg; P < 0.0001), diastolic BP values (87.65 vs. 67.48 mmHg; P < 0.0001) and aldosterone levels (249.55 vs. 155.14 pg mL(-1); P = 0.002) vs. controls, respectively. A positive correlation between aldosterone levels and systolic and diastolic BP values is described.

CONCLUSIONS:

A higher prevalence of hypertension in women with Androgenetic Alopecia has been found. The elevated aldosterone values in these patients may contribute, alongside other mechanisms, to the development of Androgenetic Alopecia and may also explain the higher prevalence of hypertension. BP screening of women with Androgenetic Alopecia will permit earlier diagnosis of an unsuspected hypertension and initiation of appropriate treatment.

 

[S Foote.]

Interesting info folks, thanks.

Freakout i am a mechanical engineer, most of my work over forty years has been related to engines. I started in the engine machining side, then went on to engine developement and trouble shooting. It's more systems engineering, and how one thing effects other things.

I take the same view of physiology.

 

[freakout]

Epigenetic research at work!

http://www.sanger.ac.uk/about/press/2011/110519.html

'Master switch' gene for obesity and diabetes discovered

The gene is dead including the 'epigene'
http://www.atlasofscience.org/news/news ... nome%202.0

DNA did not create life. Life created DNA.
http://artsci.wustl.edu/~anthro/article ... 0Feb02.htm

 

[freakout]

The growing anagen follicle has to grow into the dermal tissue, so what would happen if the dermal tissue doesn't want to move out of the way?

The conclusion i reached is described in the "Hydraulic dermal model" part of the link i posted.

Forget about scalp hair for a moment and consider this. If you transpose the hydraulic principle i suggest onto humans, you notice that the one consistant thing about androgens is they grow hair in certain areas of the body. These areas all have higer concentrations of lymph vessels close to the follicles.

The implication of the theory is that androgens are increasing lymph drainage, so reducing the local fluid pressure and increasing hair growth.

The odd and "opposite" effect is that in some people, this action can reduce scalp growth.

This part is more of a description of the pathology. A root-cause analysis has yet to isolate causative factors.

 

[freakout]

But there is no direct relationship here as to androgen levels or time period [to the occurrence of male pattern baldness], so there has to be another factor.

Yes. This is very obvious in many cases e.g. Prince William. These cases are already an indication of the existence of causative factors other than androgens which Merck drones deny all the time.

 

[freakout]

I think this factor is the complex blood supply/drainage that evolved to service the enlarging brain in higher primates.

THe theory points to human envolution and the large blood supply requirement of the human brain as a natural contributor to the predisposition.

It also suggests a compromized drainage system as the 'cause'. This compromized drainage system must be thrown to the other side of the equation - make it the 'effect' of another cause to arrive at the root cause by asking the questions:

What's causing a drainage problem in balding men?
How do non-bald men and hunter-gatherers escape the natural predisposition?

Unlike man-made machine, biological systems are very capable of repairing themselves to a degree beyond the understanding of current medical science. What prevents a compromized drainage system from fixing itself?