Insulin resistance, PCOS, and male pattern baldness

armandein

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S Foote. said:
If as i propose, hair follicle growth is restricted in male pattern baldness by contact inhibition caused by increased pressure in the dermal tissue, this would only have its effect on new anagen follicle growth. During such an increase in pressure, existing already grown anagen follicles are not affected untill the next hair cycle. This would explain why all hair is not lost at the same time, and some follicles can show no change for years. The human scalp hair anagen period can last for years.
(snipped)

In my opinion the normal contact inhibition of follicle growth, and its related pressure factors explain the paradox in male pattern baldness.

We also have to consider that if androgens are "locking down" follicle growth at the follicles genetic level, how can anything that does not effect androgens make any difference? Minoxidil for example.

My theory predicts that anything that reduces scalp fluid pressure in male pattern baldness, will increase hair growth.

Hi Foote.
Do you think if hardened sebum an contribute on the contact inhibition supossed process?
 

hairhoper

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S Foote. said:
hairhoper said:
[quote="S Foote.":zu0iuwjt]You just don't want to try to explain how androgens could "directly" reduce numbers of progenitor cell in male pattern baldness follicles as in the linked study.

The progenitor cell study is an attempt to explain the mechanism (or at least one link in it) by which genetically predisposed follicles are sensitive to androgens.

Nobody claimed progenitor cells are reduced by androgens.


Yes which is related to my point about this study.

How then are progenitor cells reduced in androgen related hair loss?[/quote:zu0iuwjt]

Genetically, but how is not yet known.
 

hairhoper

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idontwanttobebalding said:
It is my understanding (which should make you suspect to begin with :) ) that at the initiation of the anagen phase, of a follicle, from the telogen phase, not only is the stage being set for the "current" hair growth, but also, for future hair growth.

If Androgenetic Alopecia is an "event", and not a "process" (ie: once it starts in the follicle, it can only be be stopped by castration....and perhaps delayed by some degree by drugs or other methods) Then the direct effect of androgen on the current hair follicle effects the "precursors" of the hair to come.

Clarification of this thought would be appreciated! :dunno:

I can't clarify that because it is nonsense.
 

freakout

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idontwanttobebalding said:
In regards to immunity of the hair follicle.....could someone explain Steve Jobs situation to me....

http://www.allaboutstevejobs.com/pics/l ... -1999.html
Is it plausible to say male pattern baldness is multi-causal in addition to multifactorial - the reason no one could pin it down?

Since when did Steve Jobs begin taking immune-suppresant drugs? His case is obvkously NOT immune related.

Are you going to laugh if I tell you sitting can kill you?
 

freakout

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idontwanttobebalding, Are you looking for a 'cure' or THE cause? Rather analysing the pathology, finding what's causing YOURS and preventing it from occuring would allow hair follicles to fix themselves.
 

hairhoper

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idontwanttobebalding said:
idontwanttobebalding said:
Then the direct effect of androgen on the current hair follicle effects the "precursors" of the hair to come.

What does that mean?

What are you getting at?

Androgens may have a direct effect on progenitor cell formation.

Ah! Sorry for my tone. Had had a beer and freakout's usual drivel was annoying me. :)
 

balder

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S Foote. said:
I think it is important to emphasize this section quote:

" Agents that induce potent
hypertrichotic eVects are known as peripheral vasodilators
that act as potassium-channel openers, such as
minoxidil and diazoxide"

Peripheral vasodilators allow a reduction in tissue fluid pressures in surface tissue, that is around the hair follicles.

This is the common factor in these treatments for male pattern baldness.

Does intercellular pressure put restrictions on cell growth? Does reduction in that pressure help people become slightly taller?

http://www.lifeslittlemysteries.com/wou ... ngs--1413/


On Earth we experience the steady hand of gravity at 1 g force constantly throughout our lifetimes. On other planets in our solar system, that’s just not possible. Researchers are working on ways to make artificial gravity possible in order to make long flights easier on human bodies. According to NASA, most astronauts grow about 2 inches while they’re in space because the reduced gravity causes the fluid between vertebrae to expand. They lose the height within 10 days of returning to Earth’s crushing gravity. Because of the growth, NASA uses space suits that have extra room to accommodate the additional height.




External water pressure does not seem to restrict growth of deep sea fish though...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_sea_fish



Insulin Plays Central Role In Aging. The smoking gun insulin connection to male pattern baldness is yet to be discovered though :dunno:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 064935.htm



Block the hormone's action inside a few specific cells, the study shows, and the entire body stays healthier longer. Scientists previously thought insulin triggered other hormones to achieve this effect, but Tatar and his team found that insulin regulates its own production and that it directly regulates tissue aging. The principle: Keep insulin levels low and cells are stronger, staving off infection and age-related diseases such as cancer, dementia and stroke.

 

S Foote.

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armandein said:
S Foote. said:
If as i propose, hair follicle growth is restricted in male pattern baldness by contact inhibition caused by increased pressure in the dermal tissue, this would only have its effect on new anagen follicle growth. During such an increase in pressure, existing already grown anagen follicles are not affected untill the next hair cycle. This would explain why all hair is not lost at the same time, and some follicles can show no change for years. The human scalp hair anagen period can last for years.
(snipped)

In my opinion the normal contact inhibition of follicle growth, and its related pressure factors explain the paradox in male pattern baldness.

We also have to consider that if androgens are "locking down" follicle growth at the follicles genetic level, how can anything that does not effect androgens make any difference? Minoxidil for example.

My theory predicts that anything that reduces scalp fluid pressure in male pattern baldness, will increase hair growth.

Hi Foote.
Do you think if hardened sebum an contribute on the contact inhibition supossed process?


If you are suggesting that androgens increase sebum then this restricts scalp follicle growth in some way, you also have to explain the flip side?

how does androgen related sebum production increase follicle size in other areas?

Any valid theory of androgen related hair growth has to do both.
 

S Foote.

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idontwanttobebalding said:
It is my understanding (which should make you suspect to begin with :) ) that at the initiation of the anagen phase, of a follicle, from the telogen phase, not only is the stage being set for the "current" hair growth, but also, for future hair growth.

If Androgenetic Alopecia is an "event", and not a "process" (ie: once it starts in the follicle, it can only be be stopped by castration....and perhaps delayed by some degree by drugs or other methods) Then the direct effect of androgen on the current hair follicle effects the "precursors" of the hair to come.

Clarification of this thought would be appreciated! :dunno:

If what you say is true, then the male pattern baldness follicles in the immuno-mouse study would not have regrown.

According to the direct effect theory, everything was present in those transplanted male pattern baldness follicles to maintain them in that condition. And more than enough androgens in the mice (again according to the direct sensitivity claim).
 

S Foote.

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balder said:
S Foote. said:
I think it is important to emphasize this section quote:

" Agents that induce potent
hypertrichotic eVects are known as peripheral vasodilators
that act as potassium-channel openers, such as
minoxidil and diazoxide"

Peripheral vasodilators allow a reduction in tissue fluid pressures in surface tissue, that is around the hair follicles.

This is the common factor in these treatments for male pattern baldness.

Does intercellular pressure put restrictions on cell growth?

I am talking about extracellular pressure remember.

The thing about hair follicles is that they are "hollow" pockets in the dermal tissue. This makes them sensitive to fluid pressure in dermal tissue because they are hollow.

It is not the direct fluid pressure but the fact that this would push dermal cells in towards any hollow in the tissue. There is a very simple analogy here.

Blow up a party baloon with different pressures of air. For the air think fluid pressure, for the skin of the baloon think dermal tissue. Now push a finger into the baloon to form a pocket in it.

The more pressure, the more resistence there is to the formation of a pocket.

Higher fluid pressure around the growing anagen follicle, normal contact inhibition of growth kicks in earlier, and you get a smaller follicle.
 

DarkDays

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After seeing "brain cooling" mentioned one too many times I just have to say this:

Anybody who thinks brain cooling has any reason behind it is a sexist misogynistic pig, I am sorry to say. If brain cooling were a real factor women would be suffering in greater numbers of balding, if not equal to men as they are, and please, quote after me: "Human beings just like men".

Even the annoying "masturbation theory" has more basis in facts than this stupid cooling non-sense. At least there you have loss of zinc and other minerals(in ejaculation) that can create imbalance of minerals.
 

freakout

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DarkDays said:
"brain cooling" (theory) mentioned one too many times ... If brain cooling were a real factor women would be suffering in greater numbers of balding ...
Perhaps but we can still throw in the androgen factor to account for the difference in men and women.

Such a theory can only apply to frontal scalp hairloss - Norwood Type 5A - not the entire vertex scalp since only the frontal scalp reflects internal cerebral temperature.

Even so, if there is any credit to this "brain cooling" theory, such an occurence could only only a response to an adverse condition - that of a tendency for the cerebral tissues to overheat.

The primary coolant of the brain is blood circulation. Therefore such a theory could be the result of poor blood circulation.
 

freakout

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We already know that hair follicle growth characteristics is recipient or site dominated and we also have this notion that body hair growth is direcly induced by androgens.

The truth is body hair growth is only associated with increased androgen production.

The results of the mouse experiment where biopsies of the donor scalp which include complete pilosebaceous units where regrowth from vellus to terminal was achieved suggests that the root cause of male pattern baldness is being induced from outside the pilosebacous unit.
 

Bryan

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DarkDays said:
After seeing "brain cooling" mentioned one too many times I just have to say this:

Anybody who thinks brain cooling has any reason behind it is a sexist misogynistic pig, I am sorry to say. If brain cooling were a real factor women would be suffering in greater numbers of balding, if not equal to men as they are, and please, quote after me: "Human beings just like men".

I have no idea why you have so much trouble with the "brain-cooling" theory. I think it makes as much sense as any other theory for the evolution of male pattern baldness. It currently has less effect on women for the simple and obvious reason that androgen levels are a very obvious factor in its evolutionary development. I think as the eons go by, balding will gradually have more and more of an effect on women, just as it does on female stumptailed macaques.
 

S Foote.

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idontwanttobebalding said:
S Foote. said:
idontwanttobebalding said:
It is my understanding (which should make you suspect to begin with :) ) that at the initiation of the anagen phase, of a follicle, from the telogen phase, not only is the stage being set for the "current" hair growth, but also, for future hair growth.

If Androgenetic Alopecia is an "event", and not a "process" (ie: once it starts in the follicle, it can only be be stopped by castration....and perhaps delayed by some degree by drugs or other methods) Then the direct effect of androgen on the current hair follicle effects the "precursors" of the hair to come.

Clarification of this thought would be appreciated! :dunno:

If what you say is true, then the male pattern baldness follicles in the immuno-mouse study would not have regrown.

According to the direct effect theory, everything was present in those transplanted male pattern baldness follicles to maintain them in that condition. And more than enough androgens in the mice (again according to the direct sensitivity claim).


http://www.uphs.upenn.edu/dermatol/facu ... ecLipo.pdf



The topical delivery of transgenes to hair follicles is an attractive
approach for treating disorders of the skin and hair. The hair follicle
contains epithelial stem cells, which cyclically regenerate the lower
follicle1,2, and in times of wounding, repopulate the epidermis as
well3. At the onset of each new growing stage (called anagen), stem
cells in the bulge area of the hair follicle proliferate and give rise to
progenitor (matrix) cells that subsequently generate the hair shaft
and its surrounding layers4. The properties of the matrix cells are
established at anagen onset and determine the characteristics of the
new hair. For example, the number of matrix cells correlates with the
size of the new hair5,
and the pigmentation of the hair depends on
the presence of melanin in the matrix cells6. Therefore, gene-based
therapies targeted to follicle progenitor cells at anagen onset could
alter the phenotype of the new hair follicle, and its associated hair.


Has this theoretical treatment grown any hair on the human male pattern baldness scalp yet?
 

freakout

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i know there is a transplant procedure wherein large sections of the scalp at the back are transplanted to the front. Obviously, the front scalp has to be moved to the back.

Does anyone know of such a case and can verify that the bald or balding hairs continued to lose or regrow some hair?

What ever the results of such a case, it could support or throw a hammer on the mouse experiment.
 
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